When is a V4 1200 is a Parallel Twin 600 ?

[John451]

Question, When is a V4 1200 also a 600cc Parallel Twin ?

Answer, When it is the new Honda VFR1200.

Have been mainly adding any new VFR info ito the " http://vfrworld.com/forums/general-v...fr-2010-a.html " Thread but think this aspect is worthy of discussion all on its own.

With info being leaked quick and fast on the new VFR1200 this is the first one to potentially bug me if Honda doesn't get it right from the off.



" The Honda V4's radical design means that the 200bhp engine’s cylinders can be shut down, turning the V4 into a parallel-twin, so it can sip fuel on the commute and chase superbikes at the weekend.

Honda is giving nothing away. The only official information from the company is that it’s a V4. But our monitoring of patents filed by the firm reveals it’s a radical design derived from the Japanese company’s experience with its V5-engined RC211V MotoGP machine and variable valve control as seen on the current VFR. "



Please discuss good or bad ?

Full V4 to IL twin thread at:
Tech guide: How the Honda VFR1200 can switch from V4 to parallel twin

[Echo3Niner]

Well, I think you hit it right on the head "if they get it right" (paraphrased), being the operative words.

On paper I'm OK with it if they get it right. And that's a BIG if...

I'm trying to withhold judgment until I actually hear from someone who's ridden it. I'm actually trying to withhold judgment a lot.

[two4one]

Of course it's good but it's impossible to judge something like this until you're on it and riding <giggity>. This whole "turning off cylinders" thing is going to be mocked just like the 6th gen VTEC thing. Some like, some hate it and other don't pay enough attention to care. Honda engineers have no chance of getting it right with the way this group picks things apart.

I sure hope a real version of this bike surfaces soon so we can stop the speculation.

[John451]

This whole "turning off cylinders" thing is going to be mocked just like the 6th gen VTEC thing.

This should be quite different to VTec as 4 cylinder mode would only switch to 2 cylinder mode at steady state cruising would expect the ECU would know to keep it locked in V4 mode when the bike is ridden with meaning therefore not cutting in and out.

As I see it the question discussed should be either it's brilliant Honda has had the foresight to recognise that Gas will get ridiculously expensive again as the World economy improves and its well worth gaining better mileage on commute or tour.

OR

Do you think the complexity doesn't warrant the increase in list price mixed with the potential higher servicing costs, greater chance of mechanical failure and zero increase in performance ?

I sure hope a real version of this bike surfaces soon so we can stop the speculation.

True but enjoy it now because once it's out we'll propably have to wait 4 years before we can start speculating what goodies Honda will have in store for the next VFR. *



* disclaimer, there is quiet speculation this only the new Blackbird and the real medium capacity lighter Sports biased VFR replacement has yet to surface.

[two4one]

* disclaimer, there is quiet speculation this only the new Blackbird and the real medium capacity lighter Sportier biased VFR replacement has yet to surface.

You're killing me John, killing me! I've owned both so I'm happy either way

I really have no idea what to expect from a motorcycle when two cylinders are dropped off. In a V8 car cruising on the highway, not a big deal but there has to be some sort of audible and mechanical characteristic that you will notice much like the VTEC I would think?

I do think at some point the complexity of a machine no matter what it is starts to diminish the value and perhaps the "ease" of ownership. Ask any 6th gen owner about a valve adjustment...eesh! With this bike, we gain some and lose some in my mind. We gain a shaft drive. For me personally, I'm tired of dealing with a chain due to the mileage I put on my bike. We lose with the 190 rear tire which I'm assuming it will have. 190's simply cost more. At the rate I'm going through tires right now, a couple bucks here and there counts.

All this is a mute point for me. I won't own a 7th gen bike anyway. I spend too much money on track days, tires and everything else for the bikes I already have. I don't need to add a payment for a new bike on top of it. Plus after riding my 6th gen for the first time in a month last night, I still love that bike. It's the first bike I can't bring myself to get rid of after two years of ownership. That doesn't mean I'm not anxious to see what Big Red will be delivering shortly.

[Badbilly]

If I don't like this new bike, I'm gonna lay down on the floor, kick my feet and hold my breath till I turn blue. So there Honda! Neener neener.

[NorcalBoy]

When it's a shaft driven 600cc parallel twin.

[NorcalBoy]

* disclaimer, there is quiet speculation this only the new Blackbird and the real medium capacity lighter Sports biased VFR replacement has yet to surface.

You're friggin' kidding right? You can stop the CPR, the patient is dead.

[RVFR]

^ LOL oh so right. But I have to say this so called VFR, if it will be badged that? is so different, it's starting to look interesting? if and it's a huge if, 200hp? keep the weight down? be able to have great suspension tuning properties? (Shaft Drive) Then I'll be very interested.

[Lgn001]

It's funny to think that what most current VFR owners would seem to like on a 7th Gen is another 200cc of displacement, 50+ less pounds, and better suspension; maybe lose the VTEC. That's it.

The weight reduction would probably be the most problematic, and not even a necessity. The rest is relatively easy for a large manufacturer like Honda.

Don't get me wrong; technology has been good to the internal combustion motor with regard to output and reliability, and to motor vehicles in general. But it gets to the point where enough is too much.

All I want is a better VFR; not an entirely new bike that happens to have a V-4 engine.

[Adamant]

It's funny to think that what most current VFR owners would seem to like on a 7th Gen is another 200cc of displacement, 50+ less pounds, and better suspension; maybe lose the VTEC. That's it.

The weight reduction would probably be the most problematic, and not even a necessity. The rest is relatively easy for a large manufacturer like Honda.

Don't get me wrong; technology has been good to the internal combustion motor with regard to output and reliability, and to motor vehicles in general. But it gets to the point where enough is too much.

All I want is a better VFR; not an entirely new bike that happens to have a V-4 engine.

+1. I agree, all they need to do is make some improvements not a radicall re-design. I will ride my 5th gen till it dies.

[John451]

You're friggin' kidding right? You can stop the CPR, the patient is dead.

Jeez Norcalboy you've been continually naysaying any suggestion of a new VFR and now it's a definite you're poo pooing the hint of a sportier future varient ?

[drewl]

NCB has a point, though. You hinted at it in the original post. If it is just 2 sets of cylinders acting together, then it is not our V4. The VTEC at least manipulates valves on the V4, not switching whole cylinders on and off like the big Cadillac engines.
I do not feel our V4 is just a sum of all parts, but the whole thing.

[skivfr1]

Let's see........ the facts right now: 1200cc V4, shafty, SSS, parallel twin when cruising, and a big GOITER sticking out the side!! (that hides the swingarm!)

[nitronorth]

I hope they did it right this time.the technology for this at least is quit common now, and works...Anything that can improve mileage is a good thing and way overdue , unlike the last gizmo that did nothing useful. Hopefully now they make a bike that can do as good on fuel as their cars! I like every penny i can keep for more rooms and fuel thank you. time will tell...
I am looking forward to seeing real pics and specs of this one..a new bike will be in my garage next year..will see what tho..

[dale-j]

I think John nailed it.

<snip> Do you think the complexity doesn't warrant the increase in list price mixed with the potential higher servicing costs, greater chance of mechanical failure and zero increase in performance ? <snip>

BINGO, just like VTEC. Honda has shown its tendency with this already so I have little hope for a light, simple, reasonably priced new VFR.

I said as much to the salesman at Honda the other day, that until they could come up with a VFR that wasn't a) overweight b) complex and expensive to service and c) far too expensive at $15,299 (canadian), I was out of the market for one.

I suggested that all it needed to do was be 450# wet, make 100 hp at the wheel, lose the VTEC, have a hard bag option and cost $11-$12K (Canadian). Non linked sport abs like the new CBR would be a nice option....

He laughed and took me to look at the Ninja 650.... Oh well..... You know, they don't look that bad compared with the size and weight of a lot of these 'middleweights' now.

[Echo3Niner]

When it's also a triple?

Honda V4 VFR1200 is a triple too - | Motorbike reviews | Latest Bike Videos | MCN