VFR1200F - Motor Cycle News - Input Requested

[michael]

Update: Andy has completed his research, and no longer needs responses. Thanks to everyone who emailed Andy with input for his article!

One of our friends, Andy Downes, MCN Chief Reporter for Motor Cycle News in the UK, has contacted VFRworld asking for input on the new bike. Knowing how opinionated we at VFRworld tend to be, he figured he would get a good mix of results.

Below is his request, and he would appreciate feedback being sent directly to his email address listed below. If you have done your research, and feel that you have something to offer, please feel free to contact him. Love it? Hate it? Let him know! Also, I would greatly appreciate if you could mention that you're emailing on behalf of VFRworld, just to show your support for the site.

I am a reporter for Motor Cycle News in the UK and I would love to pose a question to the VFR1200 forum please? Can you help me out please?
We will be seeing the finished production bike on Thursday and I would like to be able to hear from some owners before that happens please.

Can I ask these simple questions please?
1 Is the new VFR1200F a worthy successor to the VFR name?
2 If the price is right would you buy one?
3 What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?
I simply need a name and where they are from to go with any answers please.

Many thanks and kind regards

Andy Downes
MCN Chief Reporter
+44 1733 468011

[Echo3Niner]

"Mr. Downes, my name is Rob, I am from Rockford Michigan, USA, and I am a member of the VFR forum VFRWorld. I have been a fan of the original VFR since it came out in 1983 and I was in high school. I have owned several bikes, my current one is a Red, White and Blue, 25th Anniversary Edition, 2007 VFR800, which I will be keeping, regardless of my future direction.

To answer your request for input:
1 Is the new VFR1200F a worthy successor to the VFR name?
1) I think it's a bit premature to answer this first question, until we know the real world statistics and get some ride reviews. I will say because the last couple of generations of the VFR800 were very "Jack of all trades" kind of motorcycles, you'll find there is a very broad range of VFR riders, some VERY sport oriented (which this new bike will likely NOT please), some more just 'riders', and some more tourer oriented; in my opinion the bike will appeal to the last two segments. I know many on the two VFR forums I belong to have pined for a VFR-R version (something akin to the RSV4 or the CBR1100R concept bike), that is more road-racer focused. For me, if the VFR-F is a direct competitor to the Kawasaki Concours 14, then it will be spot on for the direction Honda appears to be taking the bike (see below).

2 If the price is right would you buy one?
2) I am 'under orders' from my wife to get a more comfortable (for the pillion) sport-tourer next summer; I had decided on the Kawasaki C14 ABS, the new reworked 2010 being even better then the previous model (the advantage of the three years of development). HOWEVER, as a VFR (V4) fan; if the VFR1200F is competitive with the C14, price and performance, I will get it instead.

3 What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?
3) Given my situation as described above, the reported level of performance, while hopefully being more roomy and comfortable for the pillion then my current 6th Gen VFR, would make me very happy. Hopefully the VFR1200F has even more performance than the C14, while being at least as comfy, for about the same price. If that's the case, I think Honda will have a winner, since the C14 appears to be selling well, at least here in the USA. I am both intrigued and leery of the new techno-wizardry. On one hand if it all works as the engineers envision, I think the new tricks (dual-clutch & variable cylinders) will be welcome advantages to the motorcycle industry. However, if they really do not serve the purpose designed in the real world, they are simply additional cost and complexity for no gain. VTEC was a good concept, but like many concepts on paper, the application of the technology in the real-world had very little value (at it's best, and was counter-productive at it's worse).

Hope that helps. Please feel free to email me back with any questions, thoughts or comments; if I can help further, I'd be happy to."

[VT Viffer]

Andy –

My name is Matt, from Jericho, Vermont. I am a current member of VFRWorld (VT Viffer), and am writing in response to a post requesting input about the new 7G VFR1200. I currently own a 1996 VFR750, and have loved every mile I’ve been in the seat. Anyways, I figured that I would put in some of my input and answers to your questions regarding the new VFR.

1 Is the new VFR1200F a worthy successor to the VFR name?
I’m not so sure about this. The VFR is known to be a sport touring bike, with much more emphasis on sport. The new 1200 seems to be directed more towards the touring aspect. It is loaded down with all kinds of techno-goodies that make me cringe. Being on a (raw, but no less refined) non-ABS, non-FI, non-VTEC bike maybe puts some bias into my opinion, though. The VTEC system in the current 6G bike has been pretty beat up time and time again, and I don’t feel it’s either necessary or warranted in a motorcycle application. I have also read that the new VFR will be shaft-driven, which also is more of a departure from “sport” and a lean towards “touring”. VFR originally meant “V-engine, Four cylinder, Racing heritage” to me, and this bike doesn’t really hit home on the last aspect, at all. Just because it has the single-side swingarm and a V-4 does not immediately qualify it as a VFR. I couldn’t imagine taking the new VFR onto a track and pushing it hard. The only solace I have in this new bike were the rumors of a potential “Touring” model and a more “Sport-oriented” model. The latter would undoubtedly be my choice.
2 If the price is right would you buy one?
The price would have to be not much more than the current model for me to consider it. However, with all of the tech that Honda seems to be packing into it, it will be priced into the higher tiers of the motorcycle spectrum. I envision this bike won’t be less than $12,000 USD. If they could offer a “Sport” VFR with the 1200cc engine, standard non-ABS, non-linked brakes, chain drive, a normal gearbox, maybe a better suspension, and the comfort of my current bike for $9,000-$9,500 USD, I’d get the checkbook out. As it stands, I’m not interested.
3 What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?
I think that I am most excited that they have enlarged the engine, and taken the VFR and CBR1100XX and combined them into one bike. I feel that the CBR was never properly marketed in the US (come to think of it, the VFR wasn’t either), and neither was a runaway success. My biggest complaint about my 750 is low-end power – it’s just not there. I think that the extra displacement will address this issue.

Let me know if you’d like clarification or more input on any of these talking points. I (like many of the others on VFRWorld) have been talking about the 7G bike for the better part of two years now, and are all very strongly affiliated with the VFR as well as Honda motorcycles. You’ve come to the right place.

Matt Kuerth

[Cyborg]

Right now, my response to all three questions is simple:

1) Based on "New VFR coming" in 06, 07 and 08, not to mention the crap this time around, until I can touch one, it doesn't exist.

2) Price, while a factor, will not be the deciding factor. I have to see one, learn the details and only then make the call "This will work".

3) The larger engine, something that's been, IMO, needed for at least 10 years...

[RVFR]

OMG some one with some weight wants our opinion ..No harm in giving it ha they asked

[34468 Randy]

OMG some one with some weight wants our opinion ..No harm in giving it ha they asked

I think they need a cattle catcher on the front. Sheat. my fingers are attached to my mind again.

But seriously, I willl have to take a hard look at what the new one has before I post up. If I am going to offer advise, I would like it to be as informed as it can be. Kinda nice though that we were asked. Do we get any royalties?

[NorcalBoy]

His questions:

Can I ask these simple questions please?
1 Is the new VFR1200F a worthy successor to the VFR name?
2 If the price is right would you buy one?
3 What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?


My responses:

1. Hell no, what are you crazy?
2. Absolutely not
3. The Aprilia RSV4, lol

[PorscheBob]

Dump the "variable-cylinder management" and also go back to chain-driven cams and I might buy it.

I want 4 cylinders and 16 valves............working all the time!

Oh.......and it better have monster wires and large cooling fins on the damn Regulator (plus a small fan). Love over-kill.

An electric windscreen would be a nice plus factor.

Carry On ~

[jaimev34]

Yes, dump the VTEC. All I want is a normal V4 engine on a bike like the 5th gen with fully adjustable USD forks and fully adjustable rear shock with springs for people who weigh more than 150 lbs. I think the power is fine, but if Honda wants to throw a few more ccs, that's fine with me, although 1200cc is too much. Also, cut off a few pounds and add some nicer plastics. Keep the undertail exhaust from the 6th gen but make it a single muffler like the '07 CBR1000 to show off the nice SSSA. Some nice elegant rims, maybe even with a center hub instead of the 4 bolts would be great, as would chain drive, turn signals on the mirrors, and stock tires limited to Pilot Powers, Diablo Corsa IIIs, or Pilot Road 2s.

Is that too much to ask??

[magnavmx5]

If it truely hits with 200 hp then i would think it would be as big a hit if not bigger than the v65's. Bad news might travel fast yet agian.

[CandyRedRC46]

200 hp isnt necessary, but would be more than welcome. what is needed, is to bring the bike up to sporting standards. the 98 vfr800 was such an amazing, award winning bike when it came out, because the r1's, zx9's, 929s, etc were only putting out 120ish horsepower to the wheel, and conventional forks/brakes were the norm. as sports bike further evolved into inverted fork, radial brake, 160 wheel horsepower beasts, the vfr800's basic recipe stayed the same. though 12 production years passed, it put on extra weight with no gain in power. the vtec promise of added power and fuel economy, was just bullshit, added cost of maintainace and cool sound through the transition. i have no idea what the cost of a valve inspection is going to run on a uni-cam front cylinder head with vtec rear cylinder head and 2/3/4 multicylinder capability.

all honda had to do was drop some weight, add some power, and put on modern suspension and brakes. i have a feeling that the vfr1200 is going to wind up weighing way too much. if this bike winds up weighing 600 plus pounds, they need to retire the vfr name. name it a vf1200 and wait untill they can suceed in building a v-four bike under 500 lbs and then slap the R back on.

[Badbilly]

I am not buying one unless it comes with a fuzzy logic rice cooker and a toaster that will do wholewheat bagels.

Sounds like out Brit cousin has been sucked into the great maw of hype too.

Has anybody seen one? Riddin one? Heard one? Touched one?

Nope.

[Scubalong]

His questions:

Can I ask these simple questions please?
1 Is the new VFR1200F a worthy successor to the VFR name?
2 If the price is right would you buy one?
3 What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?


My responses:

1. Hell no, what are you crazy?
2. Absolutely not
3. The Aprilia RSV4, lol

NCB, You crack me up Brather

If you like the Aprilia so much why don't you get one? I like to see you on that bike on our next gathering

[Sippy]

1. VFR name used to be the industry leading benchmark. Will this motorcycle be a leader in sport touring class, or an over priced, over weight, with too much “technology”? I don’t think the VFR1200F is a worthy successor to the VFR name. What are the similarities? VTEC engine? A lot of purest would argue that the 5th gen and 6th gen VFR’s are not the same motorcycle (VTEC was introduced in the 6th gen). Or the similarities is the proposed high tech advancements? I think you’ll find a lot of riders like simple/minimal designs much like Honda’s sport bikes for low costs DIY maintenance, performance improvements, etc.

2. If the price is right, along with the specs, and options available, yeah I would test drive one first and then consider.

3. Honda has disappointed me, in that they continue year after year vastly improve their super sport bike lines. But when it comes to the VFR or other bikes, they only touch the designs every 4,6 or 8 years. With the existing VFR, I would have like to seen continual improvements with dry weight reduction, braking, suspension and power. So is this new VFR1200F going to have lots of power, yes. How about weight? I can suspect is going to be heavy like most Honda motorcycles – Bad. And braking? Without a doubt, they’ll use the new electronic ABS systems. Suspension? Wait and see if its fully adjustable.

Show me the final product, and then I’ll make my final judgments.

[tman]

i have an 06 i like the v tec and the 1200 model is very appealing with the vairiable cylinders and all but it needs to get better mpgs (perferably in the 45mpgs city and 60 on the highway range) and they should have kept the exhaust under the tail the ass end just seams bare and takes away from being able to enjoy seeing the rear wheel

[michael]

Just a reminder that Andy Downes is not monitoring this thread, so if you have (serious, thought-out) input to his questions, please email him directly. Thanks.

[VT Viffer]

My reply was e-mailed directly to him.

I cut and pasted my reply into this thread so others could enjoy my opinion.

[vfourbear]

Just a reminder that Andy Downes is not monitoring this thread, so if you have (serious, thought-out) input to his questions, please email him directly. Thanks.

You know me, cant be serious long enough to think out anything

[Alaskan]

Here is my e-mail --

Dear Mr. Downes,

Since you asked, here are my answers to the questions you posed to the members of VFRWorld.com:

1. Based on what I have read and seen, this bike is not a worthy successor to the VFR name. The VFR has its roots in racing and has developed into a sport-tourer. A worthy successor to the VFR name would maintain at least some connection with its racing origins! Can you imagine taking this monster to the track? How about a new VFR that weighs less than 500 pounds, sports a torquey 1200 cc V-4 engine, and can rip up a twisty road BUT can carry a rider in relative comfort on a 500-mile day? That would be a worthy VFR!

2. I wouldn't buy this new bike at any price because I do not want a heavy touring bike. If I wanted one of those I would already have purchased one from BMW or Kawasaki or Yamaha or . . . you get the idea.

3. What excites me most about what you have seen and read about the new bike? I guess the engine has me interested. And the techno-geek in me is interested in the automatic transmission. But, again, I definitely would not buy this new VF1200F at any price.

Finally, given the VFR1200F's apparent gross (pun intended!) avoirdupois, perhaps you should be asking the members of lorryspotting.com for their opinions about this behemoth.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Pollard
2004 Honda VFR owner

[Echo3Niner]

My reply was e-mailed directly to him.

I cut and pasted my reply into this thread so others could enjoy my opinion.

Me too.

[Swoop]

OMG some one with some weight wants our opinion...

A reporter for a magazine?
We haven't seen the finished product yet. But release is very near indeed!

Honda VFR: coming soon


I'm still waiting to see what Mr Honda has come up with...

[Badbilly]

Just a reminder that Andy Downes is not monitoring this thread, so if you have (serious, thought-out) input to his questions, please email him directly. Thanks.

By the time all this speculation hits the presses, the motorcycle press, who for the most part are pretty savvy guys as opposed to ballet critics and weatherpersons will have had a go on the bike.

Anyone heard if a plasma Tee Vee will be an option?

[RedRover5683]

Mr. Downes is not monitoring and following this thread? He should be. He can always choose to remain silent as long as he likes. (BTW, I'll bet that he really is watching this thread...)

Also, the first 2 questions he asks are simply premature and unanswerable until...

1) This new motorcycle arrives on dealer showrooms throughout North America, and prospective buyers have a chance to at least take one out for a brief test ride;

2) The most popular motorcycling enthusiast magazines (which are biased by ad revenues) have extensively tested it and published reviews;

3) Motorcycle Consumer News, which is of course the premier financially independent motorcycling publication, least swayed by advertising revenues, writes a comprehensive review of the motorcycle after extensive testing. In terms of reviews, this should be the acid test.

As for Mr. Downes' 3rd and final question for us (What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?) it seems to me that he's again asking us to comment on the rumor-mill we've been exposed to so far, including...

1) More than a year's worth of tantalizing "leaked" online conjecture, rumors, photochopped images, and other such scuttlebutt from Asia, Europe, and elsewhere.

2) Early last year Honda began a Web-based email and online campaign about the new VFR 'Concept' motorcycle, including a rather lengthy survey of our thoughts, wishes, and impressions of the variously pictured 'prototype', yet those online images were really nothing more than vague, abstract rough-sketches created on a computer. Excuse me, but those Honda-derived images didn't look anything like a real-world motorcycle. Moreover, these 'concept' images from Honda raised far more questions and confusion among many, rather than providing a clearer and more tangible vision of where they intended to take the next generation VFR.

In my opinion, Honda has thus far offered up a lousy pre-production advertising campaign, and to this day we still don't know what Honda is about to unveil with its new VFR. On the other hand, as a more leisurely sport-touring rider who is rather conservative, and as a previous owner of 2007 BMW K1200GT, I've long wished for a next-generation VFR that would be more like the K1200GT, combining the best of both bikes, while offering a much lower price- and wet-weight, along with shaft drive. (Sorry, but I think that chains are a major pain in the ass.)

I also welcome factory-options, a'la BMW, such as electronically adjustable windscreen; heated grips and heated front/rear seats; cruise control; Tire Pressure Monitoring; Electronic Suspension Adjustment, and partial-linked Anti-Lock brakes. A robust and highly reliable electronic system would also be really nice, as would a smooth-shifting gearbox, along with an excellent stock suspension which is easily adjustable. Excellent brakes in general would also be nice, not to mention a stock seat that doesn't leave you dreaming about an aftermarket saddle after riding only 200 miles. What a tall order!

Please note-- I do not want the new VFR to be little more than a repackaged Honda ST1300. Far from it.

I suspect that my post here will draw flames from some of the VFR purists here, but before you get too wound up, ask yourself how much money you may have already spent on endless trials of various aftermarket goodies (as I have done) such as aftermarket windscreens; electronic cruise control (or throttle locks); heated grips; aftermarket saddles... gearshift modifiers, etc.

[Badbilly]

Mr. Downes is not monitoring and following this thread? He should be. He can always choose to remain silent as long as he likes. (BTW, I'll bet that he really is watching this thread...)

Also, the first 2 questions he asks are simply premature and unanswerable until...

1) This new motorcycle arrives on dealer showrooms throughout North America, and prospective buyers have a chance to at least take one out for a brief test ride;

2) The most popular motorcycling enthusiast magazines (which are biased by ad revenues) have extensively tested it and published reviews;

3) Motorcycle Consumer News, which is of course the premier financially independent motorcycling publication, least swayed by advertising revenues, writes a comprehensive review of the motorcycle after extensive testing. In terms of reviews, this should be the acid test.

As for Mr. Downes' 3rd and final question for us (What excites you most about what you have seen and read about the new bike?) it seems to me that he's again asking us to comment on the rumor-mill we've been exposed to so far, including...

1) More than a year's worth of tantalizing "leaked" online conjecture, rumors, photochopped images, and other such scuttlebutt from Asia, Europe, and elsewhere.

2) Early last year Honda began a Web-based email and online campaign about the new VFR 'Concept' motorcycle, including a rather lengthy survey of our thoughts, wishes, and impressions of the variously pictured 'prototype', yet those online images were really nothing more than vague, abstract rough-sketches created on a computer. Excuse me, but they didn't look anything like a real-world motorcycle. Moreover, these 'concept' images from Honda raised far more questions and confusion rather than providing some modicum of an idea of where Honda was going with all of this, and that ad campaign raised far more troublesome question rather than imparting a clearer vision of where they intended to take the next generation VFR.

In my opinion, this has been absolutely horrible pre-production advertising on the part of Honda, and to this day we still don't know what Honda is about to unveil with its new VFR. On the other hand, as a more leisurely sport-touring rider who is rather conservative, and as a previous owner of 2007 BMW K1200GT, I've long wished for a next-generation VFR that would be more like the K1200GT, combining the best of both bikes, while offering a much lower price and wet-weight, along with shaft drive. (Sorry, but I think that chains are a major pain in the ass.)

I also welcome factory-options, a'la BMW, such as electronically adjustable windscreen; heated grips and heated front/rear seats; cruise control; Tire Pressure Monitoring; Electronic Suspension Adjustment, and partial-linked Anti-Lock brakes. A robust and highly reliable electronic system would also be really nice, as would a smooth-shifting gearbox, and an excellent stock suspension which is easily adjustable, along with excellent brakes, not to mention a stock seat that doesn't leave you dreaming about an aftermarket saddle after riding only 200 miles. What a tall order!

Please note-- I do not want the new VFR to be little more than a repackaged Honda ST1300. Far from it.

I suspect that my post here will draw flames from the VFR purists here, but before you get on your high horse, ask yourself how much money you may have already spent on endless trials of various aftermarket goodies (as I have done) such as aftermarket windscreens; electronic cruise control (or throttle locks); heated grips; aftermarket saddles... gearshift modifiers, etc.

I agree. For instance, a fuzzy logic ricecooker for my 91 is almost $250.00. I bet the Brit version will have a cooker for bangers and beans.

[Keager]

Hi, my name is Brian McKeag, and I am known as Keager on VFRWorld and VFRDiscussion. I am from East Moline, Illinois. I have always liked the VFR, but stuck with the CBR line due to the lighter weight and the current racing that was going on. I owned both a 1995 CBR 600 F3, then went to a 1995 CBR 900 RR.



to answer your questions:

1) Since this is my first VFR and have only had it about 2 1/2 years, it would seem to me that the new 1200 is losing some if it's small bike racing heritage. Honda may want to think about bring back just the VF, calling this bike the VF1200F or R, depending on which way the engine is geared. That way it could be determined what flavor of bike that the rider is interested in.

2) as for amount, I would say that, if given the circumstances above, that the touring side be higher than the sport model, but given different options. Like the touring would have the linked brakes, the ABS, shaft drive, standard saddle bags, factory cruise, the power windscreen, but somewhat of a de-tuned motor over the sportier VFR. I would say that the sportier version have the chain drive, no ABS, but more bhp than then cruiser, with no ABS, no linked brakes, no power windscreen, no cruise control. Given that, the cruiser would be more because of the options.

3) the most exitement is Honda stepping back into the big bike realm. I was disappointed when Honda dropped the blackbird (CBR1100XX) from the line, because that was to be my next bike that I went to because of the comfort that it had.

If I can be of further assistance or if you have any questions, feel free to send me an e-mail back.Again, thank you for asking those of us who ride the VFR's and love them.

[old blue]

yes

yes

centralized weight, handling, new technology

[mello dude]

Rover your posts are always sooo long - I dont have the patience to read it. My bad I guess -oil well...

MD

[Alaskan]

UK version has cooker for bangers and mash? Will we get the fondue pot option?

[e cabrera]

Hello¡
My name is Enrique Cabrera, live in SAn LUis Potosi, SLP Mexico,38 years old and 20 motorcycles in my life since 1990. (18 Honda's).
The new VFR must follow the tradition of well done motorcycles, high quality and high technology.

The selling price should be affordable so the future owners can pay it and be competitive to another motorcycle brand in it's category.
I've read a little about the new VFR and hope in the future to buy the newest model I can get, If it will be sold in my country I'd buy it immediately.

To me a good sport touring motorbike should have decent brakes, a full inverted front adjustable suspension front and rear (spring preload and adjustments) and regulator/rectifier of high qualily not as the OEM used in 5th generation., at least 130 hp and easy access to adjust head lights.

I live in Mexico and the VFR is not selled here, so I had to import it from USA with high taxes, HONDA should considerate sell any bike any where if the client can afford and pay for it.

In VFRWorld you can find people who cares of motorcycles with passion and pride.

Saludos desde Mexico¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

[reg71]

well I answered it pretty similar to you guys... I am kind of excited about shaft drive just because of the low maintenance but not as excited as I would be by a 65 lb lighter 800 cc VFR that went back to gear driven cams and kept the SSSA... I'd like to see a bit sportier than current incarnations but I understand that I am in the minority... hell I'm just glad they FINALLY released SOMETHING different...