Who listens to music when they ride??

[Strider]

but i must contribute...


To add my 2-cents, i do listen to muzak while riding, not all the time, but when i do.. I am required to feel out the bike in some situations, and BTW sight superbly overtakes hearing when concerning safety on a BIKE i.e. @ an intersection. learning to ride in southern California, (if you know>you know) I could go on for hours about Dumb CAGERS and their lack of um. alot...but as we all know everything you DO on a Bike deals with a Risk Factor. If i split this lane, pass this car, do this wheelie, pull this stoppie...and so on. I hope to be that Extremely small percent that NEVER GOES DOWN. Thats where wisdom, discernment, maturity, skill all seem to play there part. Its a good ride with tunes though, IM one that Always has music of some type playing at home, in the truck, when im working (when i can). but i can chew gum, walk, talk, piss, and do a jig at the same time(just not all in that order).

in response to RAT and his comment of not being willing to help a rider after going down... I think you have lost sight of the fraternity of riders, not to say you shouldn't perpetuated his downfall; but it seems to me that there are many misguided young riders that could benefit alot from a cup of coffee and great advice and encouragement from a salty ole' dog like you. but you don't have to be a part of the solution.(you can keep complaining).

to the inquiring minds alike-
I piked up a pair of SURE in-ears with the variable sized plugs for costume fit, totally worth it, there is a technique to be had with pulling the helmet over to lobes, but i can be done, and upon using it for my ride from riverside to Monterey-bay with them in, will have them in on long trips playing the NANO or not,**also for those with the map viewing tank bags, the touch-screen players can be operated with reasonable ease...note for rat you might want to pull of the road before attempting...j.k. ;P...(i paid $99 @ target) it was the only SURE product they stocked, go figure.


-lane splitting to Panic at the Disco, gives a good pace.

[TX _VFR]

This topic will always have arguments for both sides

I have observed some good points though :

Action

Ride enough with no hearing protection and you'll be missing things all the time 'cause you'll be half deaf.

Rat

For many years I refused to use ear plugs, but have now lost a significant amount of hearing in my right ear (the 'exhaust' side...).

Rat, are you saying that your hearing loss was a direct result of your refusal to wear hearing protection ? And if so, then why do you still refuse to wear hearing protection all the time ?

Rat

Around town and commuting I do not use ear plugs - I want maximum awareness.

If you already have a significant hearing loss from riding without hearing protection and yet continue to ride without hearing protection which would stand to reason even further hearing loss, how does that give you "maximum awareness" when progressively you'll have even more hearing loss ?

[Strider]

On a personal protection note, you cannot deny the fact that muffler ear leads to hearing loss...

[rednek]

i got to have some tunes. i have thoses small speakers that mount in the helment. i heard that in calif. ear buds are not legal not sure if that is true or not.

[Strider]

Well the sad story about that is; i moved to Atlanta, a few months ago...but ear buds prob, not legal in GA either. just a guess. neither is my well...never mind.

[derstuka]

Originally Posted by TX _VFR

This topic will always have arguments for both sides

I have observed some good points though :






Rat, are you saying that your hearing loss was a direct result of your refusal to wear hearing protection ? And if so, then why do you still refuse to wear hearing protection all the time ?



If you already have a significant hearing loss from riding without hearing protection and yet continue to ride without hearing protection which would stand to reason even further hearing loss, how does that give you "maximum awareness" when progressively you'll have even more hearing loss ?

What you missed is sitting in traffic, or travelling thru traffic at low speeds.

What I think some people might be confused on, is that I nor anybody else (that I recall) said that hearing is "better" than your sight....I never did at least...I am just saying that hearing everything is ADDED protection/awareness/another sense....

[Rat]

Originally Posted by Strider

in response to RAT and his comment of not being willing to help a rider after going down... I think you have lost sight of the fraternity of riders, not to say you shouldn't perpetuated his downfall; but it seems to me that there are many misguided young riders that could benefit alot from a cup of coffee and great advice and encouragement from a salty ole' dog like you. but you don't have to be a part of the solution.(you can keep complaining).

Fair enough.
That was the decision I made based on the situation and my perception of the rider (slider?).
I just felt embarrassed for him and myself, and simply felt some level of humiliation.
The rider jumped to his feet almost instantly and was clearly uninjured.
I recall that he had no jacket or gloves and a ratty helmet, and a sportbike that seemed to have had a long and adventurous career as a local pavement testing device.
In other words, it was clearly not that rider's first crash.

I honestly didn't think that he seemed like he would be receptive to input; he seemed to be showing off ( a failed 'stoppie' perhaps?) and was apparently unfazed by the incident.
Sometimes your gut feeling just tells you not to waste your time.

In group rides I often ride sweep just to critique and offer advice to newer riders, which is always well received in that context.

I do appreciate the "salty ole' dog" comment"
But I hope my comments don't come across as complaining - more like "been around the block a few times", and hopefully "salty old dog" sage advice...!

[goinphaster]

Originally Posted by derstuka

Anybody try those form fitted ear plugs? I saw them selling them at the bike show in Long Beach. They actually form a mold inside of your ear to make it a perfect custom fit for your ears.

I have a set of them. (I guess I need to be categorized as future statistic too... ) they were worth every bit of the 350 paid for them. they block out wind noise and you don't even need to turn up your (insert applicable device) up all the way. I have mine at half volume most of the time. before I used to use earplugs, helmet speakers, and a inline amp. this worked but it was like trying to listen to music through a wall- you could tell which song was playing but there was not enough there to enjoy. I tried out listening to my favorite tunes while on a spirited twisty run and decided that it would only be good for non-spirited runs because you really need to focus on the ride. ever notice while your concentrating on finding an address you turn the radio down in your car? that being said I will still use my ear speakers on the slab commute (four hour one way trip to visit dad).

[Rat]

Originally Posted by TX _VFR

Rat, are you saying that your hearing loss was a direct result of your refusal to wear hearing protection ? And if so, then why do you still refuse to wear hearing protection all the time ?

If you already have a significant hearing loss from riding without hearing protection and yet continue to ride without hearing protection which would stand to reason even further hearing loss, how does that give you "maximum awareness" when progressively you'll have even more hearing loss ?

I'll clarify.

After more than 25 years of riding, and something approaching 1/2-million miles, I have lost some hearing in my right ear (DOT tests confirm it; I drive a truck for a living).

I believe it to be the result of frequent long-term extended exposure to primarily wind noise.
In the research that I've done (not extensive) it seems that "white noise", even at low perceived volume/db levels can cause permanent damage.
This is primarily the result of hours of riding at highway speeds.

In-town noise of other traffic and the bike's own exhaust are less contributory.

I noted "the exhaust side" more for irony than to suggest causation.
Most of my bikes have had exhausts exiting on the right side.

I now use ear plugs on every ride that I expect to ride above about 45-50mph, for more than about 5 minutes at a stretch; essentially longer fun & group rides, or anytime I get on the freeway for more than 1 or 2 Exits.

For commuting, I believe that the risk of further hearing damage is much less than the risk of not adequately hearing my surroundings.
The threats are much greater on surface streets than highways, where wind noise drowns out any sound a threat might make anyway.
Lower speeds in town cause minimal wind noise, and ambient sounds are better discerned.

Low speed trundling won't really make the hearing loss worse; high speeds will.
It's the wind noise that does it, not exhaust or traffic noise.
Hearing loss is caused not only by volume (decibels) but also by duration of exposure.
Loud sounds can be tolerated without hearing damage if the exposure time is short (except for extremely loud sounds, over 130db, I think); lower volume/decibel sounds of the right (wrong?) frequencies over sustained exposure time will cause damage.

[goinphaster]

Originally Posted by Rat

I have never listened to music while riding and never will.
Nor do I understand anyone that does.
I believe it's one of the most dangerous things one could do.

Why intentionally deprive yourself of a sense that could save your life?

In my honest opinion, I've always considered those that listen to music (headphones) while riding to not be serious riders.
To me it's very much along the lines of riding in shorts and flip-flops.

Make no mistake, I ride hard and go fast, but I approach it in a "professional" manner.
I will push the envelope of my and my bike's abilities, but I will do everything I can to minimize unnecessary risk.
Listening to music is a distraction in any circumstance; I need to be "in the moment" when riding.

For many years I refused to use ear plugs, but have now lost a significant amount of hearing in my right ear (the 'exhaust' side...).
Now I use ear plugs for longer rides at higher speeds, but that typically means out and away from inner city traffic and minimal threats.
Around town and commuting I do not use ear plugs - I want maximum awareness.

Where to start......
I am in the Navy. I work on very LOUD fighter jets. we are required to wear earplugs AND earmuffs. I spend quite a bit of time on flight decks where 20+ Jets are turning at once. combine all this in to one moment and then toss in a radio headset in the earmuffs to listen to the Flight deck controllers direct traffic on one of the top ten most dangerous places to work in the world, and make it night time. there's over 100 people on that deck and they don't get knocked down because they can't hear. they get knocked down because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. they hear everything that's going on, and they know exactly what's about to happen to them- whether or not they can get out of the way. all of these folks would line up to tell you that tire screeching/horns/engines can be heard over earplugs- because just like your eyes at night, your ears ADJUST to the changing conditions, and to earplugs.

next: If you drive a car and listen to the radio (drink coffee, even look at your cell, talk to your passengers) then you are just as guilty of creating a hazard for motorcyclists as the other cagers. the only way you wouldn't be is if you were driving your car EXACTLY like you ride your bike. I doubt anyone on this forum could claim to do so without skepticism.

Also: I really hope you have never had an aftermarket pipe because that's just as "bad" as having in earplugs.

finally: do you have any statistics or documentation to support your statements? there's plenty to support squids wearing flip flops as stupid and dangerous, but I have yet to see any on music or ear plugs. lets stop with the stereo-typing and labeling of fellow riders and save that for politics. you don't like the idea of listening to music while riding. not a problem. that statement is respectable. let's keep emotion from dictating a force fed opinion to the masses. 98% of the folks on this site are very adult like so they should be given the benefit of the doubt that they will only do things that they are experienced enough to handle and are comfortable with, and understand the actions required to offset any risks involved; just like you do when your out their "riding hard" through a sweeper. all this comes down to is everyone else being comfortable with listening to music, while your not. why does this make them a more of a future statistic than you and the risks you take?

"maximum awareness" is a state of mind. not a physical state. just ask the Pilots who fly the jets I work on- they wear earplugs while flying too!

[SLOav8r]

Pretty much any ride farther then the coffee shop I either have my ear plugs in or the iPod. On the days I ride to work, I don't usually bust out the iPod, i just ear plug it. Anything longer then my 1 hour ride to work, I bust out the pod for sure.

Ditch the ipod earbuds and get a set of Shure's. Mine are the E3g's. Well worth the money, mine had the bike-to-bike comm, ipod and radar detector piped through them on my Cali to NY ride this summer. The best performing and most tolerable, ear buds I've ever worn


They block almost as much sound as my custom molded ear plugs, which really helps with fatigue. I can still hear myself, and other vehicles and the overall sound reduction allows me to listen to the ipod at a comfortable, reduced volume. Not much more then if I was on the beach reading a book. They're not at all a distraction from what's happening on the road around me.

[Rat]

Originally Posted by goinphaster

Where to start......

...when your out their "riding hard" through a sweeper. all this comes down to is everyone else being comfortable with listening to music, while your not. why does this make them a more of a future statistic than you and the risks you take?

Why is it that many folks posted opinions, but I'm the only one getting flamed & picked apart??
S'ok, I can take it.

Yes I do "ride hard".
Your tone is condescending. Stop.
You are not qualified to patronize me or condescend to me.
I'm not going to get into an online pissing contest, but I will suffice to say that I am by all accounts experienced, skilled and fast, and yes, mature.

By the way, it's: "you're", and "out there".

To answer your question, I think it's stupid to participate in a potentially dangerous endeavor and not mitigate all potential risks as much as possible.
I take certain risks by occasionally "pushing the envelope" (an Aviator/Fighter Pilot term) of my own skills, but do so in a careful, considered and incremental fashion in order to minimize the risks as much as possible (like so many other inherently risky activities, it's simply not possible to remove all potential risk).
The result is greater skills and abilities, which then allow me to be even safer by creating a larger margin of error/safety between "impending doom", and my ability to safely manage and resolve the crisis - I'm sure some of your pilot friends will relate to that concept.
Pilots will "fly a plane into the ground" (at least those without ejection seats), by constantly adapting to the ever-changing situation and trying recover control and fly the airplane out of the situation, until such point as they impact the ground, mountainside, etc.
Greater skill set and experience provide better capability to successfully do just that.

FWIW, I still think it's a bad idea to ride a motorcycle while listening to music.
Just my opinion is all...
Back to my original statement: Why deliberately deprive yourself of something that may keep you safer?

I suppose a corollary might be a Naval Fighter Jock that decides to go into a combat/dogfight situation without a pressure suit because he feels more macho without it, but is certain he can handle it...

How many Fighter Pilots do you suppose fly active combat missions with music in their headsets, while needing to focus on such mundane matters as an enemy trying to shoot them down, flight controllers, wingmen/other squadron members' radio traffic, cockpit warnings, alarms, various crucial instruments, etc?
With the myriad life-threatening hazards, would it make sense to listen to music as well?

Now, I know I took the above comparison to the extreme to illustrate my point.
Control that which you can control, and minimize distraction from those potential threats which you cannot control.

It's been proven that cell phones, text-messaging, fiddling with radios, etc. are all driving distractions which increase the likelihood of an accident.
I believe that riding a motorcycle requires greater diligence than driving a car, for reasons previously described.

I have no doubt that jet noises and such on a flight deck are frequently WELL above 130db, and that hearing can be instantly and permanently damaged.
I know that it's absolutely MANDATORY to wear hearing protection for this reason.
To even suggest that the ambient noise level of the two environments of an active, busy carrier flight deck vs a motorcycle engine, exhaust and traffic noise at lowish speeds, are even remotely comparable is absurd.
I've spent a fair bit of time on an active flightline myself, there is a vast difference between the two.

My "statistic" comment was in response to bear, who implied that he might use a cell phone while riding, even perhaps in jest.
My reply was meant to shed light on how truly stupid that would be, although somewhat sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek.
I am also an avid bicyclist, and I've seen other cyclists using a cell phone while riding in dense urban traffic - another potential statistic; I really don't care if that offends them. Some things are just plain asinine and need to be addressed as such.

[Desblaze]

I do agree in part with you guys that are against listening to music. If it is too loud it would be distracting, But. I previously had a VTR1000 Firestorm with loud pipes, and on long rides it would really get to me after a while. I did on occasion listen to music and would have only been a soft tune in the back ground. deffinately no where near as loud as the bike noise was. This I found helped heaps.I deffinately don't wear fip flops on my bike but I don't wear full leathers to go to the locals shops either. Its all Common sense isn't it.

[two4one]

Originally Posted by Rat

Why is it that many folks posted opinions, but I'm the only one getting flamed & picked apart??

After reading your initial post, I'd have to say that's because your response seemed very closed minded and completely unwilling to hear an alternate opinion on the subject.

That's my take. Not flaming but that was my perception.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Everyone:

Rat's making alot of good points folks. And many of you are sitting their giving the classic American attitude of "Not me! I am fine and totally focused on the road when listening to music and riding"

Really? That's the same shit I hear as an MSF Coach when cell phones come up in class and we always get people who say "I'm fine when I talk and drive, what's the big deal"?

What's the big deal? The big deal is you obviously are spending some amount of concentration on talkng and not the road. Now I understand some spend more than others, but the point is still you spend SOMETHING when even that little bit should be on the more important task at hand.

In addition, what about all the Noobs who read this thread. Remember when you first learned to ride how much concentration you needed? many of us perform the tasks associated with riding with ease now, but if music was thrown in your ears then how well would you have done?

I close with this, I am not trying to be smart or an ass. What I am trying to do is enlighten many of you on the logic you have presented when it comes to listening to music and riding a motorcycle. You may think it sharpens your focus but your perception and reality can be two different things. The only way to know for sure if music helps your concentration is have someone observe your behaviors when listening to and not listening to music. This challenge is easy. For those of you who do track days or race. Have your laps timed with music and without and see what the numbers produce. Also, have good friends follow you around on the street and see how alert you appear to be with music and without. Get feedback from them. You may be suprised...just like the people in class when I ask "Who has witnessed anyone perfomring the task of driing and talking on a cell phone well?"

BZ