Witnessed something great today

[vfourbear]

Wearin gear actually adds to my enjoyment of the ride, I like the ritual of suiting up, its performing a small tribute to the bike gods and focuses me on what is about to occur. I am then ready to enter the state of riding. Whew...how new agey was that ?

[34468 Randy]

Someone here on this site has said, and I don't remember who....(All right give me a break I am getting older).

Dress for the crash you hope you don't have. Or something like that. This advise is profound. I have used it more often than I can remember. And I will continue to do so. Good advise will always stick in your mind. Hopefully it will also stick in your practices as well.

Thank you to who ever coined that one.

[Richard Thompson]

Originally Posted by Bubba Zanetti

Derstuka:


But all of this leads me to the next question:

What is an experianced motorcyclist?

If I had to define it, I would say its a rider who has good bike control at low speed and highway speeds and posesses the self-control to minimize their risk based upon their skill level.

(see drewls definition below! I likey!)

BZ

Hey BZ, reading your thread led me to consider the relevance of ' Risk Management' (RM) to motorcycling in general. Having undertaken a lot of RM training in relation to adventurous out doors activity-camping, tramping etc..
i guess i see the same relevance for motorcyclists apply.

for example RM is about identifying risks (before they happen) plotting a solution to minimise it as a risk factor, and providing an 'actions on' proceedure in the event it does.

for a biker, wearing protective gear is a solution to identifying risk, as is proper machine maintenace, checking weather for the route, riding to road conditions, buddy riding , leaving arrival/departure details with a third party (someone knows if your missing) etc..

the latter part - 'what to do in the event of...' simply exsists to provide immediate answers, in potentially high stress situ's, that can reduce time delays when confronted with an incident /accident (and it may not neccesarily be to you involved ).

all in all , if RM was a part of motorcycle general education, maybe our newbs would be better, safer riders or at least have a fighting chance?

RT

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by Richard Thompson

Hey BZ, reading your thread led me to consider the relevance of ' Risk Management' (RM) to motorcycling in general. Having undertaken a lot of RM training in relation to adventurous out doors activity-camping, tramping etc..
i guess i see the same relevance for motorcyclists apply.

for example RM is about identifying risks (before they happen) plotting a solution to minimise it as a risk factor, and providing an 'actions on' proceedure in the event it does.

for a biker, wearing protective gear is a solution to identifying risk, as is proper machine maintenace, checking weather for the route, riding to road conditions, buddy riding , leaving arrival/departure details with a third party (someone knows if your missing) etc..

the latter part - 'what to do in the event of...' simply exsists to provide immediate answers, in potentially high stress situ's, that can reduce time delays when confronted with an incident /accident (and it may not neccesarily be to you involved ).

all in all , if RM was a part of motorcycle general education, maybe our newbs would be better, safer riders or at least have a fighting chance?

RT

Richard:

As an MSF Coach we talk about risk management, but I've always felt we don't do enough to drive risk managment home.

Its all classroom and theory and the riding exercises are so elementary many students do not make the connection to their riding and the risk of riding. I guess the low risk of being in a parking lot relaxes them too much.

Many of us coaches feel their should be a follow up weekend were we follow students out on the open road. Might make the correlation between riding skills and risk managment more clear to some of the students.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BZ

[KC-10 FE]

It's always nice to see a new rider with a brain between their ears. All to often, they listen to waht their pinhead friends say & wear jeans & a t shirt.

I too agree that the MSF should have some kind of on road training. I know why they don't. It would be a freaking huge liability. Imagine the lawsuits that could result from taking a new rider into traffic & turning them into the hood ornament for a Kenworth.

Fortunately, in the military, we have the option to FORCE people to wear gear. Is this a good way to do things? Not necessarily. To me, I support the forcing policy just since it makes things easier.

KC-10 FE out...

[Richard Thompson]

Originally Posted by Bubba Zanetti

Richard:


Many of us coaches feel their should be a follow up weekend were we follow students out on the open road. Might make the correlation between riding skills and risk managment more clear to some of the students.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BZ

thanks BZ, interesting to hear that MSF incorporate RM theory into their rider training programme. a good move.
it all comes back to relevance and as you have identified, there is a need to drive the message home in a realistic manner.

what we do for bushcraft training is to have the group do a full RM assesment for a day trip. Then, go out on the trip and have them 'encounter' a fairly serious off road vehicle accident in the middle of a forest.
veh RM is brought into the RM plan for transit in & out so they have 'actions on' for this anyway.(and there not expecting a vehicle accident in the forest)
then we can accurately assess who got it, who didnt and who's panicking.
the accident scene is very realistic with smashed cars, smoke and lots of bodies with realistic simulated injuries and fake blood.
its very interestying to see the differant types of stress responses we get
and in this instance the sheer realism really helps to bring home the message.

obviously this is all resource driven, and here in NZ we have a Mountain safety council' which supports our activities. in the long run education saves potentially millions of dollars in SAR manpower and eqpt resources, so
a good investment from there point of view. plus the instructors provide an excellent cadre of knowledge to draw on.
i applaud your participation (and other forum members) in the MSF programme
as instructors.

well done!

RT

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by KC-10 FE

It's always nice to see a new rider with a brain between their ears. All to often, they listen to waht their pinhead friends say & wear jeans & a t shirt.

I too agree that the MSF should have some kind of on road training. I know why they don't. It would be a freaking huge liability. Imagine the lawsuits that could result from taking a new rider into traffic & turning them into the hood ornament for a Kenworth.

Fortunately, in the military, we have the option to FORCE people to wear gear. Is this a good way to do things? Not necessarily. To me, I support the forcing policy just since it makes things easier.

KC-10 FE out...

Yeah KC, I thought liability might be an issue too which actually makes me angry becasue instead of actually teaching people some skill and real wolrd risk management, lets instead provide them with some elementary skills and talk about risk management.

Nice formula to set people up for failure. Hey, its the American way.



OK, felt good to get that off my chest!

BZ

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by Richard Thompson

thanks BZ, interesting to hear that MSF incorporate RM theory into their rider training programme. a good move.
it all comes back to relevance and as you have identified, there is a need to drive the message home in a realistic manner.

what we do for bushcraft training is to have the group do a full RM assesment for a day trip. Then, go out on the trip and have them 'encounter' a fairly serious off road vehicle accident in the middle of a forest.
veh RM is brought into the RM plan for transit in & out so they have 'actions on' for this anyway.(and there not expecting a vehicle accident in the forest)
then we can accurately assess who got it, who didnt and who's panicking.
the accident scene is very realistic with smashed cars, smoke and lots of bodies with realistic simulated injuries and fake blood.
its very interestying to see the differant types of stress responses we get
and in this instance the sheer realism really helps to bring home the message.

obviously this is all resource driven, and here in NZ we a Mountain safety council' which supports our activities. in the long run education saves potentially millions of dollars in SAR manpower and eqpt resources, so
a good investment from there point of view. plus the instructors provide an excellent cadre of knowledge to draw on.
i applaud your participation (and other forum members) in the MSF programme
as instructors.

well done!

RT

Thanks Richard, but the issue is we only 'talk' about RM.

Unless a student makes a mistake on the range during exercises we do not always get the chance to make the connection between RM, skill and riding.

It seems the majority of people learn best by being shown (visually) what you are trying to communicate. With RM it can be hard to do.

Also, since its a 'beginner' class we have alot of retards that need babysat. And that can take away from the students their to learn. RM and retards don't mix. They enjoy risk with NO managment.

BZ