Gen 5 alternator handle heated clothing and grips ?

[VLUKE]

Hi all,
now that fall is quickly approaching,
I was interested in installing heated grips
and a thermostat to control heated jacket and gloves.

I'm a little leary, wondering whether the alternator can handle the load ???

I had to upgrade my '91 ST1100 alt to 40amp output,
in order to handle additional lighting, grips and heated clothing,
...as well as little draw radios and intercoms, etc.

Will my 2001 VFR handle grips and heated jacket \ gloves ?
Does anyone have both of these installed on their bike ???
(...unfortunately I don't know the total amperage draw of grips and clothing,
otherwise I'd calc it out.)

thanx all for your assistance...its greatly appreciated.
vincent

[Knife]

I can help with the heated clothing. "S" = Synergy and "G" = Gerbings:

• Jacket Liner: S = 76 Watts or 6.7 Amps; G = 107 Watts or 7.8 Amps.
• Vest: S = 52 Watts or 4.5 Amps; G = 74 Watts or 5.4 Amps.
• Pant Liner: S = 43 Watts or 3.8 Amps; G = 62 Watts or 4.5 Amps.
• Gloves: S = 24 Watts or 2.1 Amps; G = 27 Watts or 2.2 Amps.

I don't know why the Gerbings stuff draws so much more. They put out quite a bit less heat.

[VLUKE]

Hey Knife,
thanx for the amperage stats.

Does anyone know if the 5th Gen's alternator is capable
of handling all the heated clothing current (Gerbing),
and Symtec heated grips ?

Before I install the heated clothing thermostat,
I wanna make sure the VFR's elec system can cover the costs !

thanx for any wisdom and guidance
vincent

[ackattacker]

Well OK this is my first post on the forum but I might as well start here since I know a bit about electrics...

Anyway I used to run a '94 VFR with a Widder (now defunct) vest and gloves and the bike handled it without any problem.

On my current bike (an '01 VFR) the specification on the alternator is .47kw at 5000 RPMs. That's 470 watts or about 33 amps. I figure the bike itself is pulling about 15 to 20 amps to run the lights, fuel pump, ECU etc but there's no way to be sure without measuring.

Long story short I would feel comfortable pulling about 10 amps (140 watts) or so but beyond that I'd want some sort of system to monitor the voltage and make sure that I'm not killing the battery. Keep in mind that extra load on the alternator will shorten it's life somewhat, but I wouldn't worry all that much about it.

[jobvfr]

My '01 with newer honda r/r and VFRness installed puts out 14.3v unless she's overheating. I have grips and a widder vest; the voltage drops .1v with the grips on low and the vest on and .2v with the grips on high (vest on). I never run the grips on high for long -- too hot! I have run the bike on a 400+ mi trip with this stuff on and have had no problems. As long as the voltage stays above 13.5 you should be fine. I've put about 15k miles on it since and all ok.
My flash-to-pass button knocks the voltage down to 13.4!! (120watts)
I think my grips pull 13/18 watts, I'm not shure about the vest. 45watts?
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Happy trails

[ackattacker]

jobvfr, I'm curious if these readings were taken at idle or at 5000 RPM (especially the high-beam flash test)

On my old Kawasaki KLR which was running additional lights I installed a simple color-coded voltage monitor similar to this:

Turn Signal Module

It only requires drilling a very small and discrete hole for the LED in your dash.
The KLR had a 238 watt alternator (vs. 470 for the VFR) but it was able to run 70 watts of extra lights provided the engine was above idle. At idle the voltage monitor would go amber.

[jobvfr]

Ackattacker, I installed a digital volt meter since I had r/r issues with this bike as well as my '92. It reads 14.3 at anything over 2.5k and about 12.5 - 13.5 at idle, depending on the battery state of charge. I installed h-4 headlight bulbs (55w low -- 60w high) and the high/low switch is either, not both. The flash to pass button turns on highbeams with the low beams on and I guess the extra 120w is too much. I've never had and issue in the cooler weather, only when its hot. The charging voltage falls off when the bike gets hot, esp in stop and go traffic. Down to 13.2 or so, as soon as the r/r cools off, all is well.
As long as the voltage is above 12.5, you're charging the battery, but I've never loaded the system enough to pull down from max for any lengh of time.
I don't know if the r/r would like being at full load for long.
Basically if your peak voltage doesn't drop off you should be fine!
Happy (warm and toasty)trails!

[Knife]

I have the Tourmaster Synergy jacket liner and pants, Gerbings electric gloves, and electric socks (I forget the brand). I have my gloves and jacket on one controller, and my pants and socks on a second controller.

I just got back last night from a ride: Downingtown, PA to Syracuse, NY; Syracuse NY to Bar Harbor, ME (through the Adirondacks, Green Mountains, and White Mountains); and then back again on different roads (Kancamagus Highway, for example). It was quite cold at times, ranging anywhere from 34F to 59F.

Most of the ride was in the 41F to 54F temperature range during the day (lower in the early AM and after dark). I used my heated gear on the return trip only to get a comparison with my trip out without heated gear. I was pretty cold without the heated gear, but managed by layering up. But the heated gear wins the contest, hands down!

My voltmeter normally reads a bit above 12 at idle, and a bit above 14 at speed. With all heated gear on at once, on high, the voltmeter read a bit above 12 at idle and also at speed (?). I only had to run the gear on low or medium during the ride to stay very comfortable, only occasionally bumping it up to high for short periods. I wore UnderArmor underneath the heated gear (a single thin base layer is recommended for best results).

It was a pain running the wiring and controllers through my one-piece suit (had to cut a hole through the left pocket). I'm going to order a real travel jacket and separate pants for my next cold weather trip to make it easier to get in and out of my gear, and to be able to take a leak in a hurry.

The right arm of the jacket did heat better than the left arm. Not sure why, but no biggie. All in all, I'm sold on the heated gear. I could ride all day (and night) in comfort. It worked well in the pouring rain, and in the snow flurries we went through. Concentrating on riding rather than how cold I am is worth the price of admission, which is pretty low anyway!

By the way, the scenery was absolutely spectacular, as were the roads. We hit Rte. 17 in Vermont on the way back, and it was almost as good as The Dragon! And absolutely no traffic! What a fantastic road! We are probably the only two guys in existence that didn't know about it, so I'm happy we stumbled upon it by chance. There's a pull off at the top and there were about a half dozen or so bikes sitting there waiting to hit it again. We just rocketed right past and kept on going!

Sorry to get a bit off topic, but I wanted to report on the heated clothing. Hope it's helpful.

[jobvfr]

Knife, Sounds like a great trip!! I don't know how much power your electrics pull, but I would worry if the charge voltage at speed stayed aroung 12v. Where is the meter hooked up?
My bike seems to handle about 80-90 watts before the volts fall below 13.5v, plenty for my vest and grips.

Rt 17 in VT is a blast!!! Lotsa cool roads around that area!
We do a trip to VT every spring/early summer and have room in the lodge, I am going to do a post about it in Jan when I have the exact dates.

[Knife]

Originally Posted by jobvfr

Knife, Sounds like a great trip!! I don't know how much power your electrics pull, but I would worry if the charge voltage at speed stayed aroung 12v. Where is the meter hooked up?
My bike seems to handle about 80-90 watts before the volts fall below 13.5v, plenty for my vest and grips.

Rt 17 in VT is a blast!!! Lotsa cool roads around that area!
We do a trip to VT every spring/early summer and have room in the lodge, I am going to do a post about it in Jan when I have the exact dates.

Thanks for the voltage feedback. Now you have me a bit worried. I have the (analog) voltmeter connected directly to the battery. The heated clothing goes through an individually multi-fused block with a relay and a main fuse.

I think I'll take a meter to the system to get a more accurate and digital readout with and without the heated gear connected, at idle, 2500 rpm, and 5000 rpm, and see what I'm really using with the heated gear, and then go from there! Thanks for the heads up!

[ackattacker]

Originally Posted by Knife

Thanks for the voltage feedback. Now you have me a bit worried. I have the (analog) voltmeter connected directly to the battery. The heated clothing goes through an individually multi-fused block with a relay and a main fuse.

I think I'll take a meter to the system to get a more accurate and digital readout with and without the heated gear connected, at idle, 2500 rpm, and 5000 rpm, and see what I'm really using with the heated gear, and then go from there! Thanks for the heads up!

I'm curious to see your results. It sounds to me like everything on at once, on high, is too much for the system. If the voltage stays at 12V then you probably pulling from the battery a bit. You need to be above about 12.6 for "neutral" and above about 13.6 for "charging". However if you only use high for short bursts, and low/medium most of the time, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[leftcoast]

I looked into this once.....can't find the numbers that I found before, but:

VFR generates 470 Watts
and it looks like there would be somewhere around 200W left for toys.
see below from the Powerlet Company.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
STEP #2 – Calculate the common operating load. This is the total of all the electrical devices that are part of the bike and will be in operation during normal riding. Do NOT include items like turning indicators and horns since they are only used occasionally. Exceeding the peak charging output for short periods of time is not a problem. The battery will source the extra power needed. However if the power is needed for a long time, the battery will go dead. For this calculation, do NOT include the aftermarket accessories you will be adding; only include the stock items on the bike.

Table 2 – Common Operating Loads
High Beam 55 watts
Low Beam 55 watts
Number Plate 5 watts
Brake/Tail 21 watts
Instrument Panel 2 watts
Computer 25 watts
Fuel Pump 60 watts
Cooling Fan 60 watts
Electronic Ignition 50 watts

A common operating load for a standard fuel injected bike is about 285 watts.
A common operating load for a standard carbureted bike is about 195 watts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
these are general numbers, of course, but they are probably in a reasonable range.

[Maggot]

Nobody is talking about the condition of your individual batteries. This will also effect the available wattage for accessories. An older battery will use more wattage to maintain the charge.

Check out Yuasa Batteries, Inc.

If I remember right go to literature or library and find the Yuasa technical manual. It is 40 pages of great information about batteries. Facts, figures, procedures etc. I liked it so much I printed it and use it for reference whenever a battery question comes up.