having some wierd bike issues

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Just to clarify - the 86's are not supposed to have a filter, they came that way from the factory. They run a gravity feed system and all (that I know of) Honda carburated bikes afterwards ran a similar setup without a filter.

Good to know.

[slowbird]

Matt: any news?

Jamie: Can I ask what bad can happen from adding a Fuel Filter to our setup?

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Jamie: Can I ask what bad can happen from adding a Fuel Filter to our setup?

You could restrict the flow of fuel enough to starve the engine. This all depends on the type of filter, how clean it is, etc. Can I assume that you are considering adding a filter to your bike? If so, why?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

You could restrict the flow of fuel enough to starve the engine. This all depends on the type of filter, how clean it is, etc. Can I assume that you are considering adding a filter to your bike? If so, why?

I'm not really....someone I know with a rusty tank is cause they keep getting jets clogged.

People are telling him to add a filter and I'm saying he shouldn't.


I also have a slightly rusty tank but I don't think a filter would help.

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Matt: any news?

Jamie: Can I ask what bad can happen from adding a Fuel Filter to our setup?

i dont know lets ask the squirrel man



squirrel man any news?

[squirrelman]

WHY did you remove the cable holder and idle screw??????

I need it to synch throttle plates !

Your carbs are very clean except for the rust from your fuel tank.

somehow a filter should be engineered into the system b4 fuel gets to carbs, and your tank needs a flush, clean, and a coating to prevent future filth.

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by squirrelman

WHY did you remove the cable holder and idle screw??????

I need it to synch throttle plates !

Your carbs are very clean except for the rust from your fuel tank.

somehow a filter should be engineered into the system b4 fuel gets to carbs, and your tank needs a flush, clean, and a coating to prevent future filth.

i removed the cable holder to make it easyer to remover the throttle cables but i did touch the idle screw...so you say the idle screw is missing? ill over night you the cable holder...i am sure you saw those two sycn springs missing as well where you able to find some?

[slowbird]

So what is the problem with yur bike?

Are you gonna try and incorporate a filter inline?

Doesn't the Petcock have a filter in it plus the little condom thing?

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by slowbird

So what is the problem with yur bike?

Are you gonna try and incorporate a filter inline?

Doesn't the Petcock have a filter in it plus the little condom thing?

found some screwed-up stuff: filthy inlet filters that were blocking fuel flow, inconsistent and inaccurate float settings, loose screws, (of course) missing springs...... as squirrel man has said...as for the filter probably not tank is getting pretty clean once of the crap is out of it there will be no reason to run a filter....no the petcock has no filter in itself but there is one that rests in the tank or rest on the petcock...bought some more 110 octane so once i get all my stuff back in i'll going to take it to the dyno!!! see if it will put down a better number than 29.8 hp

[slowbird]

110....geeeze.


Glad everything is better though.

[matt1986vf500f]

got some news folks my carbs came in the mail from squirrel man so i have to reinstall them and clean the tank and we will see if everything is good to go

[Rollin_Again]

Matt,

Shouldn't you be saving your money for a minivan?

Regards,
Rollin

[squirrelman]

Matt,
set up the idle adjustment screw first , set @ 1/2 to 1 turn in from first contact or whatever setting gets 1200 rpm idle speed.

use locktite on the 2 cable holder bracket screws.

You're not likely to need any choke at all except for maybe 10 seconds on cold startup. Hot startup no choke, slightly open throttle.

Use of filter will help prevent future carb clogging.....

GOOD LUCK !!

[matt1986vf500f]

squirrel send me a picture with that bracket that contacts the ilde screw i know i dont have it right and forgot how it went

[squirrelman]

It's a little tricky getting the piece that pushes between the screw and throttle shaft lined up right. Shown in factory service manual ??

I had a photo of that i stole from an ebay ad, but don't know where it's hiding in my computer files. I'll look.......

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

got some news folks my carbs came in the mail from squirrel man so i have to reinstall them and clean the tank and we will see if everything is good to go

Good thing I read this so that I could pull those carb springs out of the mail to Squirrel! I guess I'll be sending the directly to you then Matt?

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Good thing I read this so that I could pull those carb springs out of the mail to Squirrel! I guess I'll be sending the directly to you then Matt?

i guess so you yo still wnat to?.

[DKC'sVFR]

I believe that the missing adjuster springs are going to be cause of the surging problems et. al. The construction of the bent metal contraptions on the ends of the throttle rods that hold the springs and adjustment screws in place should keep the springs compressed and in place because there are small raised spring locators in the largest flat portions of these bent metal pieces. These spring locators are punched holes in the metal contraptions that upset the metal around the edge of the punched holes. The upset metal around the hole locates one end of each adjustment spring. The opposite end of the adjustment springs do not fit into any sort of raised metal, they simply compress against the flat surface of the flat metal sandwiched in between the two springs that push the centered metal flat on the adjacent carburator. If any of the metal contraptions are bent or missing their punched spring centering holes, there is a probability that the adjustment springs will fall out and be lost again. You might find an adjuster spring in the muck that's covering the casting that connects the front and rear cylinders together. they will be lurking somewhere under the water pipes that feed the cooling system. As long as the carbs are off you should replace the old rubber o rings and formed rings that seal up these pipes. You may find an adjusting spring and you may forstall a cooling system failure by unblocking a water pipe or finding a thin wall in a water pipe thats ready to break through.

It is nice to have a second or third set of carbs to compare the position and angle of the bent metal things attached to the throttle rods. But if you don't have a second set of carbs to refer to and you can get the punched holes with the upset metal that centers one end of each adjuster spring to locate perpendicular and more or less in the center of the flat metal attached to the adjacent throttle rod then you are getting some place. There will ususally be witness marks where the uncentered end of the adjustment springs originally pressed against the flat of the metal attached to the adjacent throttle rod end. If the metal contraptions have been seriously bent up you need to be careful that you get them back to nearly the same configuration when new/good. The distance and parallel configuration of the large flat surfaces iof the metal contraptions are crucial to the adjustment screws/friction springs/adjustment springs etc staying in place after they have been assembled. When the linkage is right its nearly impossible to loose an adjustment spring. Get something to compare the linkage to to be sure you won't have a repeat problem.

When you get all the adjusters and springs together it should be apparent that it would be difficult for an adjuster spring to come out if the throttle contraptions are properly set within the normal adjustment range. That means that your adjuster screws have to be the right length and the friction springs that limit the amount that the screw can be turned in must be the correct length too.

The adjuster screws can't be too far off from correct. The factory screws do not differ widely in length. I think the VD 51's are longer than the VD 57's, but not much. The thread on the adjuster screws is extremely fine. So if one or more were lost it is probable that they replaced them with a common metric coarse thread screw. If you have anything else in place but the original adjuster screws a mechanic might have been able to adjust the screw in such a way that the metal contraptions were bent out of shape such that the adjuster springs could fall out. Check to make sure that the original screws and their friction springs haven't been lost and common thread size 3 or 4 mm screws with non standard friction springs installed in the metal contraptions with the adjuster screw holes tapped out to the coarser thread. The original fine thread adjustment screws are not commonly available at even the best speciality hardware stores. You will have to get replacement screws from one of your friends or pay through the nose to get OEM replacements ($10 or $11 each at my local dealership) . Where you will get a tap to rethread the metal contraptions on the ends of the throttle plates I don't know. I would just try to get replacement throttle rods or just buy a whole set of used carbs and keep your damaged ones for parts. Remember, if the punched raised spring locators are missing or worn down the adjuster springs will be able to work toward an edge and be lost as you drive. If you don't see the adjustment spring locators and curse them as you try to get the four carbs to hang together on the air box as you do the assembly, then you need to get a second set of carbs and look at what a normal linkage setup of Vf carbs looks like. You can use any of the Vf carb setups as an example (V30,V45,VFR 700, VFR 750 etc). There are some minor differences between them, (Some use carb #1 as the primary and the 500's use #4 carb as the primary) but they all pretty much have the same sort of linkage set up. Good luck I will be following your progress with interest.

DKC

[squirrelman]

Matt's carbs had springs installed from my spare set, and they should be ready to rockandroll and kick ass from Dalton all the way to Valdosta.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by squirrelman

Matt's carbs had springs installed from my spare set, and they should be ready to rockandroll.

Except for the spring(s) that you had to 'tweak', right? That's why I needed to send him new springs.

[DKC'sVFR]

Hey Matt, you have an '86 Vf 500 f, right? So when you get it back together you should be able to give us a spot on MPG measurement. I would ask you to add your 2 cents to the Vf 500 mileage thread started by Slobird. I figure that you will have some blips at start up that you will get sorted out fairly quickly. I expect the bike to perform like you never conceived it could when you get it back together right and take it out on the road for the first full out run. Don't get cocky and crash and burn because you are having so much fun you forgot that you were driving with other drivers in cars, trucks, and buses on the road.

Try to get a fill up to fill up mileage measurement. I hope your odometer and trip meter work. I expect a little enthusiam when you get the carbs synced, so I figure your mileage will be a little on the low side. But try to keep that enthusiam in check and tell us what you get in town vs the highway. This is especially crutial to do when the condition of the carbs is known to be near spec. The current average mpg on the Slobird Mileage Thread for a 500 is something between 30 mpg and 40 mpg in town. On the highway something from 40 mpg to 50mpg.

If you think about it try out the richness plug reading method that appears on the "mileage" thread and tell us how it comes out. I have tried the "shut down and coast to a stop with new shinny plugs method" without success. They are always still shinny. I always have to get a few hundred miles on the plugs to see a definite color change. Maybe you can get it to work. I may not have had the TWO when I shut down. I don't like running TWO for very long because I have to fix everything myself.

[JamieDaugherty]

I'll give you a little insight into my history with the VF500. I've personally owned four, three of which I still have. A very good friend of mine just sold his which he had owned for something like 15 years. Needless to say I've dumped more than a couple tanks of fuel through them so I've got a pretty good idea of what the mileage should be.

That said, I've also had to deal with a issue or two with my 500's. As soon as I've had something going on (with the carbs, mostly) it becomes evident in the fuel mileage. What used to get 200 miles out of a tank drops down to, interestingly, around 125-130 miles.

[slowbird]

....and Matt can't give us an accurate reading cause his bike is jetted (I think) he has full exhaust, a crazy small rear sprocket, and he's fat.

[matt1986vf500f]

my bike is jetted has a hindle 4-1 and a k&n air filter with out the little snorkle on the air box and a 40 tooth rear sprocket add my riding style into it and 150 bone dry before i had the carbs cleaned sounded about right now dont know yet most of my riding consists of dragging my footpegs and hauling ass so illl do my best to give you a good MPG reading but it will be lower than everyone else's for sure



P.S. i'm not fat just big boned

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by slowbird

....and Matt can't give us an accurate reading cause his bike is jetted (I think) he has full exhaust, a crazy small rear sprocket, and he's fat.

I've also had 500's with 4-1 headers and jetting. That's not affected mileage hardly at all. Gearing.... yeah, that will hurt it some.

[DKC'sVFR]

Hey Matt,

You're not the only fat person out there. I weigh in at around 265-270. The big deal here is that you are running a set of VD 31 or 32 carbs that have been meticulously gone through. You have half of the 1st Gen riders lending you a hand practically. Those carbs have got to be right! Am I right?? So the rest of us want to know can he beat us at mpg, even if he beats us around every bend and on every straight? Well?

You are going to be running the light weight bike of the group, even if you are a heavy weight like me. We all hope and pray that you can make a decent showing so the rest of us can let the fact that the Ninja 250 gets 70 mpg flow off our backs like water off a duck. Jamie says you should get up to 60 mph on the highway. Hey, I'd trade off 10 mpg for wider tires and a better ride than that boney narrow seat and tires, short high kneed Ninja that the old 250 offers anyday (and not just because I have a wide ass). The new Ninja might be attractive but it's still a buzz saw 250 on the highway even if it gets 70 mpg, am I right? We 're all Honda Vf500 partisans, so we are all hoping that your honed to perfection '86 Vf500f can make us all proud and give us a standard to shoot for. So don't be such a doubting Thomas. Just use that power of positive thinking and say to yourself each time you mount your valient steed, "I'm light, I'm small, I'm flaco, I can drive this RWB bear of mine 60 miles on one gallon of fuel. And you know sometimes dreams can come true.

And if it's 35 mpg in town and 40 mpg on the highway, weelllllllllll, we can always blame it on the fact that you are so fat and continue the illusion that Vf 500's are the cats meow most bitchinest best damn dog diggidy damn 500 cc fuel sippinest gas mileagenest motorcycles conceived by the mind of man, and that's a fact Jack, hu'ah. Well, if its 35/40 we haven't lost a thing. We're all in this together, right behind you, glad to have that torque and the power and willing to pay $3.00+ for the priviledge to get twice the mileage as a Honda Accord gets while hefting all that iron around town.
Am I right ??
let me hear ya say "Yea, damn straight it is".

[jporter12]

For the record, my Ninja 250 has a wider rear tire on it than my Interceptor 500, and the exact same size front tire! But that's beside the point...

I'm anxiously awaiting the results of this fuel mileage test! I need to know if I have major issues or not (the lazy way to find out...)

[squirrelman]

If mileage is your #1 priority (why should it be ?) don't use a jetkit, and don't exceed 30 mph.

A 70 mph 150cc scooter can easily get 80 mpg, but do you want to ride it ?

High performance means you sacrifice fuel mileage.

A top-fuel dragster burns about 8 gallons in a 1/4 mile run in less than 4 seconds.

Just note that the '88-'90 Honda VTR 250 Interceptor is essentially a VF 500 cut in half, gets about 42 mpg, and is a much better ride than the Ninja 250 because of better mid-rpm torque.......and IT'S A HONDA !

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/i...q=si&img=39478

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by DKC'sVFR

Hey Matt, you have an '86 Vf 500 f, right? So when you get it back together you should be able to give us a spot on MPG measurement. I would ask you to add your 2 cents to the Vf 500 mileage thread started by Slobird. I figure that you will have some blips at start up that you will get sorted out fairly quickly. I expect the bike to perform like you never conceived it could when you get it back together right and take it out on the road for the first full out run. Don't get cocky and crash and burn because you are having so much fun you forgot that you were driving with other drivers in cars, trucks, and buses on the road.

Try to get a fill up to fill up mileage measurement. I hope your odometer and trip meter work. I expect a little enthusiam when you get the carbs synced, so I figure your mileage will be a little on the low side. But try to keep that enthusiam in check and tell us what you get in town vs the highway. This is especially crutial to do when the condition of the carbs is known to be near spec. The current average mpg on the Slobird Mileage Thread for a 500 is something between 30 mpg and 40 mpg in town. On the highway something from 40 mpg to 50mpg.

If you think about it try out the richness plug reading method that appears on the "mileage" thread and tell us how it comes out. I have tried the "shut down and coast to a stop with new shinny plugs method" without success. They are always still shinny. I always have to get a few hundred miles on the plugs to see a definite color change. Maybe you can get it to work. I may not have had the TWO when I shut down. I don't like running TWO for very long because I have to fix everything myself.

ill give it a go when she gets back on the road

[slowbird]

Fuel used will also have an effect on MPG.

A gas brand with an abundance of Ethanol will not get as good Fuel economy as a brand without Ethanol.