VF500 F2 Rear Wheel Impossible!

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by slowbird

If the parts are correct then there has to be something else wrong.

I spent 2 days on this install and with the Chain Adjusters there isn't enough space. I can't even see all the axle threads through the end of the swing arm with everything on.

Is it possible through heat or wear the the spacers or bracket or something could have changed shape/size?

...and could it be possible that my swing arm is somehow narrower?

Are you sure that the sprocket carrier is pushed into the wheel all the way? There should be a small gap where you can see into the cush drive rubbers - that is ok. You might try a couple of swift blows with a rubber mallet just to make sure it's fully seated.

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

first thing that tells me that its been machined is it has bolts instead of studs.

That just means the studs were taken out. I did the same thing on mine! I'm using this to install a 900RR rear on my 86 700.

I pulled the studs and had it painted - the thing that tells me that slowbirds HASN'T been machined, is that the edges of the stud holes are still chamfered.



Looks the same to me?

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Just to clarify - the axle assembles from left to right, not as described above.

Only wrote it that way as it's easier to slide the stuff onto the right side if the axle is being inserted from the right... opposite for the left side, for the purpose of checking parts alignment.

[Sebspeed]

Here's how the hub should fit:


With bolts and sprocket installed:


***Notice that on my non-machined STOCK OEM hub, the sprocket sits flush with the top of the 5 shoulders that it mounts to. Just like slowbirds! The hub/carrier has NOT been machined, it's merely been modified by having the studs removed, which anyone can do with a pair of vice grips!***

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by slowbird

If the parts are correct then there has to be something else wrong.

I spent 2 days on this install and with the Chain Adjusters there isn't enough space. I can't even see all the axle threads through the end of the swing arm with everything on.

Is it possible through heat or wear the the spacers or bracket or something could have changed shape/size?

...and could it be possible that my swing arm is somehow narrower?

That bothers me. You are using your axle, which was in your bike before? (I assume yes?)

[Pcohen]

slowbird take a look at your stock carrier and then compare it to the one you got from me. If the sprocket carrier hasn't been machined then it wouldn't have worked on my bike because the chain would have been out of alignment.

How did i put that on my 500 and ride it without problems - SEBSPEED - if the sprocket carrier was not machined? It has been machined. I sent it in to be machined. It got machined and it worked. Like I said before.. look at a stock 500 carrier and then compare it to the MACHINED one.

SLOWBIRD - Please post pictures of your stock 500 carrier for a reference

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Are you sure that the sprocket carrier is pushed into the wheel all the way? There should be a small gap where you can see into the cush drive rubbers - that is ok. You might try a couple of swift blows with a rubber mallet just to make sure it's fully seated.

Mine sits like this:



Not nearly this tight:



If I can get that little Extra space out of the Hub I MIGHT be able to squeeze in the chain adjusters. I've tried tapping it so it sits tighter but maybe I should stop being nice to it.

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

That bothers me. You are using your axle, which was in your bike before? (I assume yes?)

Yes.


If you look at the pic below:



There is that much extra space WITHOUT the chain adjusters installed.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Pcohen

SLOWBIRD - Please post pictures of your stock 500 carrier to shut some ppl in here up

Okay...tonight...afterwork.

For the Record:

I am not saying that I was sold the wrong parts or un-machined parts. My original questions on my first post of this thread were:

-Maybe since the kit is used the metal of the spacers/Bracket has changed to make the fit less precise?

-Could my swing arm be bent or squeezed in slightly?

-Could there be something wrong with my Tensioners or my axle?

Am I missing something? (not an item but an idea)

[Sebspeed]

Pat, I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm trying to help the guy. I don't know why it fit in your bike, and not in his; nor do I know if the carrier needs to be machined in order to complete a successful swap.

All I know is, that according to the pics I posted, my stock VF500F hub (which I have removed the studs from) matches the one that slowbird has. Maybe Jamie will chime in and point out some machining work that isn't visible in the pics.

Usually the hub is machined on those 5 bosses, allowing the sprocket to sit closer to the wheel, thus moving the chain line inboard, making up for the wider wheel having pushed it outboard. As you can see in the pics, both my stock hub and slowbird's hub place the sprocket in the same position on the hub. *This really has no bearing on the issue slowbird has however!*

In order to create space for these larger spacers, any machining would have occurred in the seat area of the hub bearing, thus moving the bearing inboard; OR, on the backside of the hub, on the face of the bosses that mate with the rubber dampers in conjunction with the outer diameter of the hub, which would allow the entire hub to sit farther inboard.

I do not see any evidence of either of these jobs having occurred, being that the bearing is clearly still in the stock location, and outer hub diameter appears to have original paint on it.

I assume by "shut some ppl up", you mean me, and again, I'm just trying to help here, not point fingers. Again, the pics I posted of my carrier are of a totally stock carrier, it has merely been sandblasted and painted.

[slowbird]

...and I really appreciate any help/ideas/suggestions given.

[Sebspeed]

Slowbird, yeah, that hub should be touching the wheel, or very close to it. Try a rubber mallet as Jamie suggested, or, a piece of wood under a regular hammer if you don't have a rubber one.

Wouldn't hurt to double check the rubber dampers, make sure they are seated correctly.

If you have to pry the swingarm open a little(like a 1/16" or less), that's no biggie, it'll be ok, no harm done. Looks like you might be fine if you put a little more time in.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Slowbird, yeah, that hub should be touching the wheel, or very close to it. Try a rubber mallet as Jamie suggested, or, a piece of wood under a regular hammer if you don't have a rubber one.

Oh I have a rubber mallet alright....it's been getting used ALOT during this install.

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Looks like you might be fine if you put a little more time in.

I don't think it's more time that I require.

[matt1986vf500f]

you said the chain adjusters wont fit in there with alll the spacers in there..take a file and take alittle metal off of them might work

[slowbird]

That is currently my plan B


Plan A: try to get the carrier to fit better in the wheel

Plan B: Start filing down parts.

Plan C: Profit!

[matt1986vf500f]

my problem was when i did my swap i had the wrong rotor bolts and it would hit the caliper bracket...i had to file them down to work

[Pcohen]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

I assume by "shut some ppl up", you mean me, and again, I'm just trying to help here, not point fingers. Again, the pics I posted of my carrier are of a totally stock carrier, it has merely been sandblasted and painted.

Sorry about that - this is just a little frustrating.

When i installed the conversion i had the same problem. I put one side in and then, on the other side, I used a flathead screwdriver like a a shoe horn to get the other side in while I hit it with a rubber mallet.

Slowbird, nothing in the spacers or caliper mount changed.. It's just a tight fit!

Also; the hub was seated in my bike as slowbirds pics show and I did not have any issues with chain alignment. At least that I know about

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Pcohen

When I installed the conversion i had the same problem. I put one side in and then, on the other side, I used a flathead screwdriver like a a shoe horn to get the other side in while I hit it with a rubber mallet.

Jamie, Matt....is this normal?

[slowbird]

The Left image is matt1986vf500f's setup...the right is mine.

Looks like that carrier needs to go in more...but it's not that much of a difference.

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Jamie, Matt....is this normal?

no doubt its a tight fit and i had to tap in the chain adjuster on the sprocket side, but the way you are telling us is that no matter what you do you still cant get the chain adjusters in... am i right?


tap in that sprocket carrier alittle more might not help but it nees to be in all the way to keep the chain aligned

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

no doubt its a tight fit and i had to tap in the chain adjuster on the sprocket side, but the way you are telling us is that no matter what you do you still cant get the chain adjusters in... am i right?

I can get one side in....but not the other.

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

tap in that sprocket carrier alittle more might not help but it nees to be in all the way to keep the chain aligned

I'll see if I can get it to seat better.

[matt1986vf500f]

then you might just have to file some metal off of one of them

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Plan A: try to get the carrier to fit better in the wheel

From what I can tell - this is the whole problem. The pictures tell the story. This setup will work if you get that carrier to fit properly in the wheel. There is no trick to this, it fits exactly like the CBR part did.

Originally Posted by slowbird

Plan B: Start filing down parts.

DO NOT DO THIS. You are using a kit that I've made many of just like it - and they have all worked. If you start modifying parts you will be on your own and I can't really help you anymore.


I guarantee this is one of my kits and I guarantee it will work. We will get this figured out. I ask that folks in the peanut gallery please refrain from jumping in with comments when you have not done this yourself. It makes it really difficult for Slowbird to get this sorted out when people are sending him on goose chases. I made this kit and Pat successfully installed it on his bike, as did Matt with the identical kit. There is a small issue here (sprocket carrier installation) that should be really easy to get sorted out. Extraneous comments are making this way more difficult than it should be.

[matt1986vf500f]

i went out to the shop and snapped a few pictures


Picture496.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture497.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture498.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture499.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture500.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture501.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture495.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

Picture494.jpg picture by matt1986vf500f - Photobucket

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

I guarantee this is one of my kits and I guarantee it will work. We will get this figured out. I ask that folks in the peanut gallery please refrain from jumping in with comments when you have not done this yourself. It makes it really difficult for Slowbird to get this sorted out when people are sending him on goose chases. I made this kit and Pat successfully installed it on his bike, as did Matt with the identical kit. There is a small issue here (sprocket carrier installation) that should be really easy to get sorted out. Extraneous comments are making this way more difficult than it should be.

Who are you calling the peanut gallery exactly???

Seems like the peanut gallery helped him figure out that the carrier wasn't seated properly while customer service was out?

And has the 500 hub for your kit had any material removed/been machined or not?

[matt1986vf500f]

whoa fellas we are here to help slowbird with his F2 swap not to take cheap shots at each other..

[slowbird]

Thanks Matt for those pictures.

I have been outside working on the swap for 4 hours and I can't get it to fit.

Here is what I have observed:

-The face of the Sprocket carrier HAS been machined. I could tell by looking at my stock carrier and sprocket.

-The sprocket carrier doesn't sit in the wheel nearly as well as the one in the stock VF500 wheel. It won't go in anymore and the whole carrier easily falls out of the wheel at the slightest nudge.

-Prying the swing am open more to allow the whole thing to fit looked like it could work but there would need to be ALOT of prying...and I don't think that's the right idea.

-It took me less then 5 minutes to re-install my stock wheel.

I think the next step is to find out why the Sprocket carrier doesn't fit into the F2 Wheel properly.

I tried banging and pressing and re-arranging the Rubber things inside but no dice. The whole thing is loose.
Does there need to be specific rubber things inside? For the VF or for the F2?

[matt1986vf500f]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Thanks Matt for those pictures.

I have been outside working on the swap for 4 hours and I can't get it to fit.

Here is what I have observed:

-The face of the Sprocket carrier HAS been machined. I could tell by looking at my stock carrier and sprocket.

-The sprocket carrier doesn't sit in the wheel nearly as well as the one in the stock VF500 wheel. It won't go in anymore and the whole carrier easily falls out of the wheel at the slightest nudge.

-Prying the swing am open more to allow the whole thing to fit looked like it could work but there would need to be ALOT of prying...and I don't think that's the right idea.

-It took me less then 5 minutes to re-install my stock wheel.

I think the next step is to find out why the Sprocket carrier doesn't fit into the F2 Wheel properly.

I tried banging and pressing and re-arranging the Rubber things inside but no dice. The whole thing is loose.
Does there need to be specific rubber things inside? For the VF or for the F2?

take the crush drives out of the 500 wheel and put them into the CBR wheel see if this works or helps

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

take the crush drives out of the 500 wheel and put them into the CBR wheel see if this works or helps

.....why didn't I think of that.

Ok....first thing when I get some light.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Thanks Matt for those pictures.

I have been outside working on the swap for 4 hours and I can't get it to fit.

Here is what I have observed:

-The face of the Sprocket carrier HAS been machined. I could tell by looking at my stock carrier and sprocket.

-The sprocket carrier doesn't sit in the wheel nearly as well as the one in the stock VF500 wheel. It won't go in anymore and the whole carrier easily falls out of the wheel at the slightest nudge.

-Prying the swing am open more to allow the whole thing to fit looked like it could work but there would need to be ALOT of prying...and I don't think that's the right idea.

-It took me less then 5 minutes to re-install my stock wheel.

I think the next step is to find out why the Sprocket carrier doesn't fit into the F2 Wheel properly.

I tried banging and pressing and re-arranging the Rubber things inside but no dice. The whole thing is loose.
Does there need to be specific rubber things inside? For the VF or for the F2?

The VF500 carrier has a small gap when installed in the CBR wheel, that is normal. The gap you show in your pictures is more than it should be. Once again, I believe this is your problem! Don't bother trying to pry open the swingarm or modify parts. If you manage to get it to fit there will something that will not be 'right'. You need to get the sprocket carrier to fit correctly before doing anything else.

Let's not go searching for other solutions until this is corrected. You've already overcomplicated things, let's take a step back and go at this one at a time. The first step is the get the obvious taken care of (sprocket carrier in the wheel) and determine what needs to be done, if anything, from there.

[slowbird]

Okay....so first thing is getting the Carrier in the wheel...and since using a mallet or my body weight won't make it go in any further, it must be something else.

Jamie: Does the kit require you use the F2 Rubber dampers or the VF500 ones?