VF500 F2 Rear Wheel Impossible!

[slowbird]

Ok....maybe not impossible but it's that difficult for me....and the title doubles as a lure for the members who have done the mod.

Goal:
I'm trying to install a F2 rear wheel conversion purchased used off another member on this forum.

My method:
Removing the ends of the Swing arm so I can slide in the axle with the (in order from Left to right) Chain Tensioner, Smallest spacer, F2 Wheel and 160 Dunlop D220ST Tire, Medium spacer, Modified Caliper Bracket, largest spacer, and 2nd Chain Adjuster.
( I have tried swapping the spacers around...no luck. I am getting mixed answers on what order the spacers go in )

Problem:

The swing arm is too narrow to accept the axle and all the above mentioned stuff onto it.




As you can maybe see in the above (and poor) pictures there is about 1/4 of an inch I need to lose somewhere.

The whole thing slides in well without the Chain tensioners.

Possible reasons:

Since the kit has been installed before and has been successful I am thinking there may be a reason for my problems.

-Maybe since the kit is used the metal of the spacers/Bracket has changed to make the fit less precise?
-Could my swing arm be bent or squeezed in slightly?
-Could there be something wrong with my Tensioners or my axle?

Am I missing something? (not an item but an idea)

I have been struggling with this for a few days now and I have contacted the member who sold me the kit and matt1986vf500f as well as Jamie D.
Though I have gotten help and answers....I'm still unable to make this all fit.

Thanks in advance!

[matt1986vf500f]

has the sprocket carrrier been machined?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

has the sprocket been machined?

I am not 100% sure but I assume so since it was working well on the other members VF500.

Is it easy to tell if it was?

[matt1986vf500f]

remove the sprocket from its carrier to see if its been machined that might be your problem

[slowbird]

Alright...it's dark now and I don't have a garage so I gotta wait till tomorrow.

Thanks

[Sebspeed]

Is the hub fully seated in the wheel?

Are the wheel bearings fully seated in the wheel?

Is your stock stuff a tight fit as well?

Try assembling like this:
- insert axle from right
- from right to left, insert onto axle the large spacer, then the caliper bracket, med spacer, and wheel (w/ rear rotor installed)
-check to make sure the caliper bracket lines up w/ the rotor
-then take out large spacer and slide in the hub and left spacer, make sure the chain lines up

Use those two setups to detrmine where your spacing is off.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Is the hub fully seated in the wheel?

The "HUB"? I'm unsure which part you are referring to....the Sprocket Carrier?

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Are the wheel bearings fully seated in the wheel?

I don't know.....how can you tell?

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Is your stock stuff a tight fit as well?

I haven't tried re-installing the old wheel.

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Try assembling like this:
- insert axle from right
- from right to left, insert onto axle the large spacer, then the caliper bracket, med spacer, and wheel (w/ rear rotor installed)
-check to make sure the caliper bracket lines up w/ the rotor
-then take out large spacer and slide in the hub and left spacer, make sure the chain lines up

Use those two setups to determine where your spacing is off.

I don't fully understand...
So I'm installing the Axle from the right of the wheel instead of the left?
Then I am sliding the Largest spacer onto the axle first? Then the caliper bracket? (first problem...you can't install the caliper bracket with the Axle n the wheel cause you need to slip the bracket over the rotor)

Then you say remove everything and do it again without the large spacer to see if the chain lines up?
...and what are you referring as the Hub?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by matt1986vf500f

remove the sprocket from its carrier to see if its been machined that might be your problem

I'm gonna remove the Sprocket in a bit and take pictures.


So with the rear wheel conversion...every Sprocket I wanna put on the rear wheel needs to be machined?

[xtravbx]

No, just the sprocket carrier, is what I thought..

[Jakobi]

The sprockets are fine. It's the Sprocket Carrier or Cush Drive that has to be machined. This only needs to be done once.

-Jake

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

The sprockets are fine. It's the Sprocket Carrier or Cush Drive that has to be machined. This only needs to be done once.

-Jake

Oh! So what am I checking to see if it's machined?

The metal part that goes in between the rubber Cush-drive part?

So just pull that off the wheel and look?

[Jakobi]

Pull the Cush Drive out of the wheel hub and look at the back of the metal drive flanges. They should be flat with crisp edges rather than rounded and cast. I suspect that this has already been done but it's worth checking. Also worth asking...did the conversion come with a Cush Drive or are you using your old one?

-Jake

EDIT: Another thought, Slowbird can you accurately measure the inside width of the swing arm (e.g. using calipers or similar)?

Jamie D., do you have this dimension handy? If not my buddy has a swing arm with the rear wheel off that I can use as a reference but I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night. This would go a long way in determining if his arm is bent or otherwise out of spec.

Anyone else with a Canadian bike that has done the F2 wheel conversion that can chime in?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

Pull the Cush Drive out of the wheel hub and look at the back of the metal drive flanges. They should be flat with crisp edges rather than rounded and cast. I suspect that this has already been done but it's worth checking. Also worth asking...did the conversion come with a Cush Drive or are you using your old one?

Okay...pics on the way.

...and it came with everything. Sprocket attached to the carrier with cush-drive.

Originally Posted by Jakobi

EDIT: Another thought, Slowbird can you accurately measure the inside width of the swing arm (e.g. using calipers or similar)?

Jamie D., do you have this dimension handy? If not my buddy has a swing arm with the rear wheel off that I can use as a reference but I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night. This would go a long way in determining if his arm is bent or otherwise out of spec.

Anyone else with a Canadian bike that has done the F2 wheel conversion that can chime in?

Yea....one of my thoughts while trying to get everything to fit was:
"This bloody swing arm is too narrow for this!"

[slowbird]

Wheel installed WITHOUT Chain Adjusters:





Sprocket attached to Cush-Drive mounted on Wheel:




Sprocket Carrier??:




Wheel minus Carrier:




Wheel. Rotor Side:




Sprocket Carrier minus Sprocket:




Mounting side of sprocket:




Axle and Spacers + Caliper Bracket

[Jakobi]

I'll have to take a closer look at these later today but it looks like the Cush Drive was not machined to fit the F2 wheel correctly.

-Jake

[slowbird]

Yea...i didn't wanna kill the Forum with HUGE pics so I put thumbnails.

If you click the image you'll get redirected to Image shack.

If you click the image on Imageshack it enlarges it.

If you click on the Enlarged image it gets even BIGGER!

....and I'm amazed at what the IPhone camera can do.

[Jakobi]

It's not that I can't get them big enough it's that it appears I can't see some of them all together. This has to do with my location more than anything. I don't know why I can see some and not others in this case.

-Jake

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

It's not that I can't get them big enough it's that it appears I can't see some of them all together. This has to do with my location more than anything. I don't know why I can see some and not others in this case.

-Jake

Oh....I see.

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by slowbird

The "HUB"? I'm unsure which part you are referring to....the Sprocket Carrier?

Yes, hub = sprocket carrier


I don't know.....how can you tell?

There's a collar inside the wheel that spaces the bearings, check to make sure it's only slightly loose, if at all.

I haven't tried re-installing the old wheel.

Did it come apart easily?

I don't fully understand...
So I'm installing the Axle from the right of the wheel instead of the left?

yes.


Then I am sliding the Largest spacer onto the axle first? Then the caliper bracket? (first problem...you can't install the caliper bracket with the Axle n the wheel cause you need to slip the bracket over the rotor)

Just do it in that order to check that the bracket is properly spaced from the right side of the wheel.

Then you say remove everything and do it again without the large spacer to see if the chain lines up?

I'm just saying you install from right to left, then left to right to see if everything lines up as it should, this would tell you if your swingarm was pinched or not! Because obviously if your chain lines up, and your caliper bracket fits the wheel(and your wheel is centered), then either your swingarm was pinched in the past, or the spacer on the far right is too big!
...and what are you referring as the Hub?

see above...

When I made the spacers for my VF750F, I made them a tad big, so that I had to tap everything in(lightly!).

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

I'll have to take a closer look at these later today but it looks like the Cush Drive was not machined to fit the F2 wheel correctly.

-Jake

It's not a CBR hub/sprocket carrier, it's a VF500F carrier! It should be fine!

[JamieDaugherty]

Per those pictures I can tell that it's a sprocket carrier that I machined so it is correct. Are you following the installation instructions I e-mailed you yesterday? They should give you everything you need.

From the pictures it looks ok to me. You should have to squeeze the largest spacer (far right side) in last. Obviously these exact parts fit just fine on Pat's bike so you should be able to get it together!

[slowbird]

If the parts are correct then there has to be something else wrong.

I spent 2 days on this install and with the Chain Adjusters there isn't enough space. I can't even see all the axle threads through the end of the swing arm with everything on.

Is it possible through heat or wear the the spacers or bracket or something could have changed shape/size?

...and could it be possible that my swing arm is somehow narrower?

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

It's not a CBR hub/sprocket carrier, it's a VF500F carrier! It should be fine!

I stand corrected on what gets machined. I haven't actually done the mod yet so this is good information for me. I am aware that it is supposed to be a VF500F Drive though.

I'm thinking the swing arms on the Canadian bikes might be different than the American bikes. Anybody have a fiche for the Canadian bikes we can compare to?

-Jake

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Jakobi

I'm thinking the swing arms on the Canadian bikes might be different than the American bikes. Anybody have a fiche for the Canadian bikes we can compare to?

-Jake

Or the Swing Arm has been modified/Damaged in some way.

[Jakobi]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Or the Swing Arm has been modified/Damaged in some way.

If that's the case then I would assume someone also screwed with your axle and spacers since they seem to fit fine.

-Jake

[slowbird]

The old stuff came out fine...Just removed the Nut....tapped the Axle out with a mallet and pulled 'n' twisted the axle out the rest of the way

[Sebspeed]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Per those pictures I can tell that it's a sprocket carrier that I machined so it is correct. Are you following the installation instructions I e-mailed you yesterday? They should give you everything you need.

From the pictures it looks ok to me. You should have to squeeze the largest spacer (far right side) in last. Obviously these exact parts fit just fine on Pat's bike so you should be able to get it together!

Looks like a stock 500 carrier hub to me? Doesn't look modified. The caliper bracket looks like yours, yes, the hub, no. Don't you normally get people to use the CBR hub?

[matt1986vf500f]

first thing that tells me that its been machined is it has bolts instead of studs.

[Pcohen]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Looks like a stock 500 carrier hub to me? Doesn't look modified. The caliper bracket looks like yours, yes, the hub, no. Don't you normally get people to use the CBR hub?

take a look at a stock vf500 carrier hub and then say that slowbird's doesn't look modified....

it's straight from jaime and all this fit on my bike fine. it was tight but it fit.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by Sebspeed

Looks like a stock 500 carrier hub to me? Doesn't look modified. The caliper bracket looks like yours, yes, the hub, no. Don't you normally get people to use the CBR hub?

No, not for the 500. It's 100% for sure a sprocket carrier that I modified.

As Pat mentioned, it fit just fine on his bike. Normally when guys are having issues with the install of the wheel swap kits it's either because 1) they have spacers in the wrong place or 2) they are trying to install parts that don't belong.

With as many of these kits as I've made I've had to deal with a few bikes that are stubborn. It always works out in the end.

Just to clarify - the axle assembles from left to right, not as described above.