Wheel conversions for 1986-1987

[adam48060]

Wheel conversions for 1986-1987 VFR700F and VFR750F Interceptors.

The 1986 and 1987 VFR was an excellent motorcycle when introduced, as it was at the top of the racing scene in the hands of riders like Bubba Shobert and Wayne Rainey, but was still refined enough to be used in a wide variety of riding situations. Unlike the GSX-R from Suzuki, which was a pure sports machine with no concessions to rider comfort, the VFR was nimble, powerful, and comfortable. However, the then-vogue 16" front and 18" rear is now passe and tire selection is slim.

Question: So why mess with a good thing?

Answer: This is purely subjective. There is no right or wrong answer here, just lots of money spent making a good thing better. Yes there are other bikes that might be better. There’s just something special about this series of bikes. Some of us just prefer the road less traveled. ‘Nuff Said.

The main reason to swap the wheels (at least for me) is to improve one’s selection of tires.



Section 2: Replacing the 16" front wheel

Question: Is there a direct replacement bolt in wheel available?

Answer: Yes. Find a 17" x 2.5" front rim from a Hurricane 600. It can handle up to a 120/80 front tire, uses the same speedometer drive, and has the proper spacing for the calipers.

Question: Are there wider wheels that will work?

Answer: Basically, any wheel that is round can be used with some machine work. Read on…

Question: Can I use the wheel from a CBR600F2?

Answer: With some modification, yes. The F2 front wheel has the speedometer drive at the axle, however the rotors are spaced out farther than stock. The F2 rim will have too tight a tolerance between the rotors and the fork legs. Warp your rotors and you can damage the forks. Machine the rotor posts in (about 11mm, I was told) to fit the stock calipers, don’t move the calipers (due to the above mentioned fork-to-rotor tolerances). The only company that I know that has this all worked out is Cobalt Racing. Either send them your rim or they can find you one. They can be reached at 614-983-3358.

Question: What about the CBR600F3?

Answer: Pretty much same as above, except the F3 wheel lacks the speedometer pickup. You can use a speedometer for bicycles (Sigma), believe it or not. Who would have thought a bicycle speedometer would have to read up to 160 MPH? J



Section 3: Replacing the 18" rear wheel

Question: How wide can I go?

Answer: up to a 6.0" rim can be fitted to the bike. This, however, requires some pretty major surgery.

Question: So what is recommended?

Answer: 17" x 4.5" rim from the CBR600F2, but the 5.0" rim from any modern sport bike should do the trick nicely. (It looks nice if the front and rear rims match, though.) The 5.5" and wider rims require the countershaft sprocket to be moved outboard.

Question: How do I mount the F2 rear wheel?

Answer: Several other things need to happen to use the F2 rear wheel.

1.Remove the old wheel.
2.Buy or make new wheel spacers. purchased from Cobalt Racing for $80.
3.Trim the forward caliper arm (the "I-beam") on the inside near the tire. If you don’t, the tire will rub this piece.
4.Cut & re-weld the caliper mounting bracket. This is necessary because the F2 rotor has a smaller overall diameter than the VFR rear rotor.
5.Buy a Fox Twin Clicker. It has a ride height adjustment, which you will need. The 18" tire is taller than the 17" tire, and you need to make up that difference.

[reg71]

I liked your article so I copy and pasted it into the WIKI for future reference. It's under the tires and wheels section if you want to look at it and see if it needs editing. You can also add a by-line if you like. Thanks for the info.

[adam48060]

can we get a sticky on this...i know its in wiki but it would be nice for people who are new to the site....lol

[reg71]

Originally Posted by adam48060

can we get a sticky on this...i know its in wiki but it would be nice for people who are new to the site....lol

ask and ye shall receive...

[adam48060]

thank you reg71...you guys are awsome...can you find me a new job making 100k a year with under 10 hrs work per week...sorry you said ask and receive..lmao

[keny]

There are many options that can be made if you have skill and time. My self I have a fork of a -94 Kawasaki ZX9R Ninja on my -87 vfr. Needed some major work to fit, but works werry nice. For rear some seems to use cbr1000f rear wheels, I used a PWM wheel from a mid -80 GSX-R suzuki.

[speed]

One of my 1986 vfr750f has forks and wheels off of a 1994 GSXR 1100

[Trackmagic22h]

Has anyone that has put on a F2 front wheel also used the forks? I'm assuming that requires a different triple tree? I saw a 86 VFR that used a 1993 CBR900RR wheel and forks. Most likely worked well considering the 93 900rr used a 16" front wheel.

[XRayHound]

Originally Posted by keny

There are many options that can be made if you have skill and time. My self I have a fork of a -94 Kawasaki ZX9R Ninja on my -87 vfr. Neded some major work to fit, but works werry nice. Fir rear some seems to use cbr1000f rear wheels, I used a PWM wheel from a mid -80 GSX-R suzuki.

I would love to know how you did this, keny. I'd like to hear your story, too, speed. Send a PM or e-mail or such if it's a long story.

Originally Posted by Trackmagic22h

Has anyone that has put on a F2 front wheel also used the forks? I'm assuming that requires a different triple tree?

I saw a website of some Canadian on Geocities, who did exactly that. He provided little in the way of details, but used both wheels, the entire triple tree, and the forks off of the 600F2 and the clip-ons off an '88 Hawk. This is the path I'm looking to take at the moment. http://www.geocities.com/veefer800ca..._VFR_page.html is the link if you'd like to peruse it. He seems to exceed his Geocities bandwidth allocation on a daily basis, though, so it may take you a few tries to get in.

[speed]

what dose the cbr600f2 wheels look like ?

[XRayHound]

Offhand, I'd say they look something like this. Dunlop slicks typically not included

[alden]

is this also applicable to the 84-86 vf500?

[keny]

Hi Speed, what size tires has your bike?

Originally Posted by speed

One of my 1986 vfr750f has forks and wheels off of a 1994 GSXR 1100

[keny]

Originally Posted by XRayHound

I would love to know how you did this, keny. I'd like to hear your story, too, speed. Send a PM or e-mail or such if it's a long story.

As I sade some major work whit the fork. I used the stock steering streem, and a spacer had to be done to make it fit the kawa lower triple. The upper triple had to be modyfid to get the stream nut on, and I also attached som fastners for a normal handelbar made from billet by a friend. Also steering turn stops had to be modyfied. The rear wheel was simple as the PVM is a modular wheel, so you can bolt of the disc and spocket holder. then they were machined to fit same masurment as stock. Also some spacers where needed and rear calliper holder shortened to accept 240mm disc instead of stock 256mm.
I have also run the front whit the stock rear wheel, and it works ok even both rims are 3,5 wide. I us a 110/70r17 front and 130/80-18 or 140/70-18 rear on the stock wheel. The PVM (current under restauration/paintin) I use a 160/60r18 tire.
My goal whit the convention was to get away from the swampy and flexy feeling fork.

[keny]

Originally Posted by Trackmagic22h

Has anyone that has put on a F2 front wheel also used the forks? I'm assuming that requires a different triple tree? I saw a 86 VFR that used a 1993 CBR900RR wheel and forks. Most likely worked well considering the 93 900rr used a 16" front wheel.

The convension is easiest if you use the hole front, fork + wheel from the same bike. If you like to use the oem speedo you have to use a frontwheel that use a speedo drive. From what I know the cbr F2 speedodrive is same as the VFR so cabel fits straight. One easy swamp I have heard of is using a Yamaha YZF600 Tundercat fork and front wheel. From what I understand the Yam steering streem fits the VFR as the Yam speedo cabel.

[keny]

Heres a reasent pic of my moded VFR, whit stock (but painted) rear wheel.

[veefer800canuck]

Originally Posted by XRayHound

I saw a website of some Canadian on Geocities, who did exactly that. He provided little in the way of details, but used both wheels, the entire triple tree, and the forks off of the 600F2 and the clip-ons off an '88 Hawk. This is the path I'm looking to take at the moment. http://www.geocities.com/veefer800ca..._VFR_page.html is the link if you'd like to peruse it. He seems to exceed his Geocities bandwidth allocation on a daily basis, though, so it may take you a few tries to get in.

That was me!

It was essentially a near bolt-on. I had to drill the steering stops on the CBRf2 lower triple clamp, thread them for a 6mm bolt, and use that bolt head to adjust the steering angle against the VFR's frame stops so that the ignition lock would work and the bars would not turn further than the ignition lock limits on either side.

Also, I had to lightly machine the lower CBRf2 triple to release the steering stem (it was welded in place) and then press it out (top to bottom).

I reused the VFR's steering stem, pressed into the CBRf2 lower triple as the VFR item is substantially longer than the CBRf2 stem.

CBRf2 and '86 VFR steering head bearings are interchangeable, if I did it again, I would use tapered roller bearings though. Beware, tapered rollers require far less preload (tension, torque, whatever) than ball bearings do.

So it was '92 CBR600F2 wheel, brakes, bearings, spacers, speedo drive, forks, fender, upper and lower triple, either VFR/CBR head bearings, and Hawk GT handlebars.

[XRayHound]

I realized you posted here some time ago, but long after I made that post, Canuck
I've gotten most of the way on my own, started fitting up the new CBR triple last night. I had a machine shop get the stems out for me; the CBR stem was simple, but he had to DESTROY the VFR clamp to get the longer stem out intact. I tried to press it myself and it would not budge in my 20 ton press.
Thanks for the tip about the bolts, be a lot easier for me to tap it now than later B-) I did notice it seemed to get awful close to the radiator, but I was going to let it slide since it hit the stops in time to not dent the tanks.
Thanks for the tip on the taper bearing preload, too. I was planning to reuse the balls (BALLS!!!!) but both of the lower races were destroyed in the steering stem swap so I ordered the taper set.
Wish me luck

[keny]

Originally Posted by XRayHound

I had a machine shop get the stems out for me; the CBR stem was simple, but he had to DESTROY the VFR clamp to get the longer stem out intact. I tried to press it myself and it would not budge in my 20 ton press.

The trick to get the steering stream out of the lower tripel is to heat is up. I had mine in a owen in ~150 degres celsius for half a hour and it came out easy in a 20 ton press. Have to have good dloves to move that thing and not burn yourself! I had all set up in advance so just needed to move it from owen ti press in a hurry. Sadly not to help for you, but maby to others that will do this.

[veefer800canuck]

Originally Posted by XRayHound

later B-) I did notice it seemed to get awful close to the radiator, but I was going to let it slide since it hit the stops in time to not dent the tanks.

Wait until you have handlebars/controls/switchgear mounted. It'll hit the tank.

Best to limit the steering angle as suggested.

[XRayHound]

The -stock- bars hit the tank.

[fatso1277]

check out step by step on www.hondavfr.org under FAQ section, goes into both front and back conversion. he suggested that steering stem be take out from bottom.

[fatso1277]

And also to grind down the steering stops on teh CBR lower triple to match those of he VFR lower triple.

[JasonJ]

Anyone know if the CBR clamps have the same angles as the stock VFR? I would be warrey of changeing the geometry with out knowing it was a good proven improvement. Also are the fork tubes compatible length and travel wise so as not to change ride height or cause interferance fully compressed?
Also, anyone have info on the Fox doubble clicker and its fitting mentioned in the rearend swap? I need to freshen up that boinger back there. Hard to belive the VFR has larger rear disc than most "modern" bikes. Something just seems wrong about down sizing the disc in an upgrade.

[keny]

Originally Posted by JasonJ

Anyone know if the CBR clamps have the same angles as the stock VFR? I would be warrey of changeing the geometry with out knowing it was a good proven improvement. Also are the fork tubes compatible length and travel wise so as not to change ride height or cause interferance fully compressed?
Also, anyone have info on the Fox doubble clicker and its fitting mentioned in the rearend swap? I need to freshen up that boinger back there. Hard to belive the VFR has larger rear disc than most "modern" bikes. Something just seems wrong about down sizing the disc in an upgrade.

The CBR has a stepper steering angel than the VFR (86-87), at 27.5 degree only 80,s bikes have same angle, and the only yhat has a usd fork whit simalar angle is the FZR1000 91-93. I have the stock fork back now. For 2 reasons. 1 the brake discs of the ZX) was wraped and 2 the steering was to slow to my tast.
The ZX9 has a 24 degre angel stock, and that meed I have a long trail, even the zx9 fork is 30mm shorter and I had the legs dropped a further 25mm!
You need to rise the rear to compensate so the angle gets right. And for the rear brake discs, lets say 80s bikes had undersized front brakes and over sized rear brakes

[XRayHound]

The steering angle is determined by the steering head in the frame, and to some degree the length of the forks, NOT by the triple clamps, so any change to the steering geometry of the VFR by doing the swap is minimal.
I'm starting to wish I'd done and F4i front end...

[keny]

Originally Posted by XRayHound

The steering angle is determined by the steering head in the frame, and to some degree the length of the forks, NOT by the triple clamps, so any change to the steering geometry of the VFR by doing the swap is minimal.
I'm starting to wish I'd done and F4i front end...

The stearing angel is sure determined by the fame, but I disagree about the effect of the triple clamps effect on the steering. Its the offset in the triples that give the trail. Usually the offset is same in both triples, but some bikes do also have diffrent offset in the upper and lower triple.
For exampel, I have a KTM mx bike that have tipels whit a excenter stearing stream, 2mm to be exact, and it do a diffrense in the bikes steering! In my VFR case, whit the ZX9 fork, the diffrense in triple offset is around 10mm! (dont remember exact mesurment, have them home) as the VFR has a 108mm trail as stock, which it pritty mych as modern bikes have 90-100mm, it is in the 120mm range whit the zx9 fork. That combine whit wider tires...man its slow steering. Even whit the fork legs 25mm down in the triples and rear rised so it only compressed 15mm whit me on it was slow to my likening, even close to stock, but then the rear suspension didnt work properly.

[JasonJ]

I agree that the tripple clamps have alot to do with the trail and offset. Race and MX bikes often have "trick" tripples with massaged offsets like Kenny said. Racers will also raise and lower thier forks in the clamps at 5mm increments to change the way the bike handles as it makes enough differance in the trail and wheel base as to be noticable. My greatest hesitation with using non stock clamps is how it will handle, thanks to Kenny's input Im going to stear clear (pun intended) of changing the tripple clamps. I think the way to go is find a comparable lenght set of forks and have some clamps milled up on a CNC. For now, I'll just pick up a good used stock front end. Maybe when my tires get whooped next time Ill do the CBR wheel swap.
Small front brakes, big rear, LOL.
BTW, I put racetek gold cartridge valves in my forks, drilled out the dampening rods and the Anti dive, used progressive springs and ATF for oil and it was the best thing I EVER did to the VFR.

[fatso1277]

sorry to change subject, but for any of the guys who did do the F2 conversion, did they have the VFR steering stem lathed down to match that of the CBR? or is that even necessary?

[keny]

Originally Posted by JasonJ

BTW, I put racetek gold cartridge valves in my forks, drilled out the dampening rods and the Anti dive, used progressive springs and ATF for oil and it was the best thing I EVER did to the VFR.

That great to know, bad I cant get thoese parts where I live.
I will play whit oil wight to see how it works till I get that ZX9 fork thing worked out.