ATGATT, or why do I even bother?

[PUSkunk]

Took a long-ish ride today here in my hometown of Greenville, SC. Pres. Bush was going to be flying in and I figured I'd head up to the northern part of the county to see if there were any preparations for the motorcade. Lots of bike traffic today, BUT. I only saw ONE other person with full gear on (helmet, gloves, long pants, riding jacket). One. And it was a guy ( I assume) on a brand new Ninja 250, so I've got to give him props for it.

I came up behind some big twin choppers, the 20000 dollar variety, and they tried to outrun me (I was on the wife's FZ6 streetfighter). Yeah, the $2000 bike outruns the long open pipe Harley clones. They were wearing long pants, and that's it for gear. Do-rags aren't going to protect your head, are they? I saw sportbike riders wearing shorts and short sleeves. Yes, it's 90 degrees, but bugs hurt at that speed, to say nothing of crashing.

To make this more VFR related, I came up behind a guy on a 5th gen VFR (remember I wasn't on mine) I assume teaching his wife/gf to ride ( she was on a cruiser in front of him), and he was wearing no gear! At least she was, but that's no example to set!

Also, when you're out riding randomly, do you see a bike and slot in beside them for a while? Am I the only one? Is that creepy?

[KC-10 FE]

Yeah, I will follow another bike for awhile. I don't think it's creepy.

ATGATT is an uphill battle but it's one that needs to be fought. Sometimes people don't know what's good for them. I've said it a million times, anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is a complete & utter retarded moron. I would tell anyone this right to their face.

KC-10 FE out...

[SLOVFR]

When you have doubts about gear click here = The Sandlot / Bike left me

[SCraig]

I feel that protective gear is a personal choice. It is also one that can only be learned the hard way (literally). I did my time sliding on asphalt as a kid and decided I didn't like it a bit. Pain, lacerated skin, and scars are good reminders. This time around I made a conscious decision that I would never get on a bike without protective gear. I don't go the route of complete leathers, but helmet, gloves, jacket and boots are mandatory for me. All each of us can do is make the decision for ourselves as to what we wear. I choose to protect myself because I know that stupid hurts!

I am of the opinion that most of the do-rag bunch with the little soup bowl helmets, and the squids with shorts and t-shirts have never been down. Yet. All things come to those who wait though, and their day will come. It's interesting to see how many of them convert from No-GATT to ATGATT after their first brush with the pavement.

I attended a go-cart race once, and it was on a 1/4 mile asphalt flat track. Their only safety requirement was a helmet. One of the drivers was wearing shorts and a tank top, and he flipped his cart over and slid down the track with it on top of him. A few minutes later he came and sat in the stands in front of us. I don't think there was a square inch of skin that wasn't torn up, and his back looked like someone went down it with a cheese grater. Experience is a tough teacher and I suspect that, assuming he got back on a cart, that he chose to change his racing gear after that.

I do agree that no helmet is stupid. Just plain stupid. I'll even go so far as to say that the little beanie helmets might as well be no helmet.

[ewryly]

This was in the Springfield Republican the other day. It seems to me that it is pretty rare that the paper gets to report that a rider had on all the right gear.

Bike rider hurt; motorist cited
Friday, May 30, 2008
By GEORGE GRAHAM
ggraham@repub.com

PALMER - A Pelham motorcyclist struck by a pickup truck on South Main Street on Thursday morning was treated at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield and released.

John W. Hibbard Jr., 54, of 11 Enfield Road, Pelham, was taken by ambulance to Baystate.

Police Sgt. Rodney A. North said the accident occurred as Hibbard was riding his 1992 BMW K100RS motorcycle northward on South Main Street shortly before 8 a.m.
Frederick N. Holmes Jr., 65, of 86 Town Farm Road, Brookfield, was driving his 2004 Dodge Dakota northward when he made a left turn and cut in front of Hibbard, said Sergeant North.

Police cited Holmes for a marked-lane violation and failure to yield right of way, said North.

Hibbard was conscious after the accident but had difficulty remembering what happened, he said.

Hibbard was wearing full-leather gear and a "high-end" helmet that probably saved his life, said North. It was a full-face helmet with a visor.

[PAR518]

While I believe that personal responsibility is a personal choice, I couldn't imagine riding without a full-face helmet, gloves, jacket & boots - at a minimum. Also, I love me, my wife & kids too much not to. I'm man enough to say it, "I don't do pain very well" and I'd never risk the injury associated with even the most minor accident. A skull cap is rather comical & pathetic in my view. We've all seen what quality protective riding gear looks like after doing it's job in a real crash - not pretty.

Some times, I find myself not waving or kind of shaking my head in disgust when I see someone in shorts, t-shirt, sneakers & no gloves.

As far as riding next to another bike, I've got one word for you - STALKER!! Just kidding, I think most of us do something similar? I hope I never loose that bit of "little kid excitement" and "comaraderie" that goes along with motorcycles!

[PUSkunk]

I'm surprised they mentioned the person was wearing full gear, alot of time they leave that part out if they were. But let someone crash wearing flip flops and shorts no helmet and the media trumpets it.

[RVFR]

Ya know what, as good as it is to play Mom, I ain't going to give a crap any more to much trouble if you do or not wear the gear you should, ain't my skin. I know, sounds hard and uncaring, but what's that saying, You can take a horse to water, can't make em drink? But know whats ya mean, crazy huh?

[i_needit]

Darwin has a way of sorting it out.

[ewryly]

When I taught effective cycling--the League of American Bicyclists equivalent of the MSF course--I would get everyone in the class to kneel down on the asphalt and tap their foreheads on the ground. If that didn't convince them to wear a helmet they probably didn't need to wear one. I never had a student who went without a helmet, though most if not all of the students were 30 or older so they had had some taste of their mortality by then.

I have to admit that the chatter and good examples on this site have gotten my riding atgatt. I can't say I did that before.

[PUSkunk]

Yeah, I agree with the comments that it's a personal choice, but I'm worried all this Darwin sorting out will cause my state to pass a helmet law. Which would be fine, except I want to be able to lane split in return. I don't want to have to wear a helmet, I want to have the option, admittedly an option I use 95% of the time.

EDIT: I take that back, it wouldn't be fine if they pass a helmet law. But if they do, I want something in return.

[XRayHound]

I had a guy on a freakin' V-Max give me a merry chase on 220 coming out of Virginia one time, he was clipping along about 90-100 and I figured if he could take those turns on a V-Max I could easily keep up with him and make good time.

I'll never underestimate an old V-Max again.

[i_needit]

I don't think the government should have a say in who wears what. But I do think that insurance companies should offer different coverage’s for those that do and those that don't wear a helmet. :))) FLAME ON.....

[drewl]

Common sence cannot be regulated by the man. You, as a responsible person, must stick to what you know is right.

[KC-10 FE]

Originally Posted by ewryly

When I taught effective cycling--the League of American Bicyclists equivalent of the MSF course--I would get everyone in the class to kneel down on the asphalt and tap their foreheads on the ground.

I have to admit that the chatter and good examples on this site have gotten my riding atgatt. I can't say I did that before.

Dude, that is an AWESOME freaking idea & it will be used in my next MSF class in 10 days.

Good on you for ATGATT, that's what VFRWorld is here for, promoting responsible riding of a piece of motorcycle history.

KC-10 FE out...

[Kevin_70]

Originally Posted by RVFR

Ya know what, as good as it is to play Mom, I ain't going to give a crap any more to much trouble if you do or not wear the gear you should, ain't my skin. I know, sounds hard and uncaring, but what's that saying, You can take a horse to water, can't make em drink? But know whats ya mean, crazy huh?

That's pretty much my attitude on this topic as well. I would, however, be curious to see the economic data as related to those who don't have any health insurance and end up in the ER due their poor choice in gear. My attitude could change depending on how much these idiots are actually costing me personally in health insurance premiums, taxes, etc.

[ewryly]

KC, of course just kneeling on asphalt in bare knees will give you reason to rethink not wearing a helmet. You'll have to get your students to do a little head butt in a motorcycling class :).

I admire the seriousness--admid all the excellent kidding--of the folks on this site. I am a serious bicyclist, but it helped me greatly to get there by conversations and example of other serious bicyclists. This site is doing the same thing for my motorcycling. I really appreciate that.

[KC-10 FE]

Nice to know some of us disfunctional wierdo's can be of some service.

KC-10 FE out...

[Gatekeeper]

Having low-sided at 80 Mph and slideing down the asphalt for over 100 feet I can say this. Being in full leather gear saved my bacon. I had a quarter sized bruise the next day from the clip on hitting my leg. No other injury. The gear cost 150 to repair and was back from the shop in 3 days. The bike was destroyed from all the flipping it did. I was able to go home after the wreck and go to work the next morning.I was ATGATT before the wreck, I've stayed that way since. I bought a new bagger and even on that, in AZ heat, I still wear boots, gloves, helmet, jacket and pants when riding.

It's all your choice. I've been riding since 1969 and have learned a few things in all that time.
I like to ask the people riding in thier underwear around here to lay on the pavement in the middle of summer. They all say no way, it's to hot! Then I ask them what it would be like to crash and not be able to move off the pavement. They never seem to be able to connect the two.

[mello dude]

Originally Posted by KC-10 FE

Nice to know some of us disfunctional wierdo's can be of some service.

KC-10 FE out...

KC - How do go about becoming a MSF rider coach? I think have been around enuff to impart some wisdom for the newbies.

MD

[34468 Randy]

Originally Posted by ewryly

-I would get everyone in the class to kneel down on the asphalt and tap their foreheads on the ground.

My mom used to do this to me all the time.

Seriously though. Prior to a career change that made me commute a long distance, my primary mode of transportation to and from work year round for 17 some years was a bicycle. This started mid 80's. I confess I did not wear a helmet often at first. A doctor friend embarrassed me into it...most the time.

In 1993 I had gone for a long recreational ride. Was hot and I was on a quiet country road. Took the helmet off and rode for about 1/2 hour without to cool down. Had just put it back on and went to ride through a ditch and up onto another road. The ditch was vegetation covered. Didn't see that gaping hole under the vegetation. Front wheel went into the hole and bike stopped immediately. I did not. Over the bars and head first into the opposing side of the ditch that was rip rap covered. I have suffered to a small degree ever since in the neck area. But this is very livable. I don't know why I did not break my neck but I didn't. Thing is, had I not put my helmet back on when I did, then I am confident I would not have survived that crash and be here pestering you all.

Ever since that incident it is ATGATT, bicycle, motor cycle and cage. Don't forget seat belts folks. In over 25 years working at accident scenes, not once did I pull a dead body from a seatbelt.

[two4one]

Originally Posted by KC-10 FE

I've said it a million times, anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is a complete & utter retarded moron.

Only problem is, it is a person's right to be an utter retarded moron. Sure I hate to see people who go without lids and gear but hey, it's their ass that will be a freeway filet, not ours.

Very few people do things that will help themselves stay healthy or alive before they have a brush with death or other life changing event. This is no different than someone filling their gut with grease and fried food every day who suddenly pays attention to his diet AFTER having a heart attack. You simply cannot preach to people. Lessons need to be learned as you go. Sure there are rare instances of people who take advice of others who have suffered, but for the most part, fuggetaboutit.

I really like the idea of the forehead tap to the pavement, if you can't get someone to at least think about it after that, there's no helping them.

[ewryly]

Some people won't learn anyway but the hard way. I preferred not to insist that people wear helmets because when instead they chose to, it stayed with them after the class. But motorcycling is more dangerous than bicycling, especially for a beginner, so I could see insisting on a helmet in a mc class.

Randy, when my mom was frustrated with my brothers and me, she used to grab her hair and bang her head against the wall, muttering, "I might as well be talking to this wall." It probably did hurt less than talking to us.