helmet or no helmet

[vfrchick]

Isn't it great to know that a government worker has the time at his job to write such a loooooooooooooong post? I'm sure the tax payers of Delaware would be proud!!!

On a more serious note... pretty impressive BZ, maybe you SHOULD be an attorney, although then I guess you'd have to be a scumbag.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by vfrchick

Isn't it great to know that a government worker has the time at his job to write such a loooooooooooooong post? I'm sure the tax payers of Delaware would be proud!!!

On a more serious note... pretty impressive BZ, maybe you SHOULD be an attorney, although then I guess you'd have to be a scumbag.

Don't be busting on this Government worker LOL! I'll eat your birds!

Just kidding chicky.

People have said to me "Why don't you go to law school"?

Easy, I am not going into massive debt and having 3 years of my life stolen for a profession which I have very little respect. Besides, my dreams of being a Federal judge are long gone; just wasn't my calling. God had other plans; which I am greatful for

I have friends who are scumbag attorneys. I love being at parties with attornys and my favorite time was I didn't know the whole party, except my wife and I where scumbags in training. So I'm talking to John, attorney friend, and he asks what Ive been up to and I informed him I am a labor officer so we are chatting and I said 'Yeah, I have this one case and you should hear the scumbag attorneys arguments..." Now John laughs because he knows how I feel, but damn you could hear a pin drop. Bubba Zanetti had to take on alot of scumbag attorneys that night LOL!

I may start a winter thread about why I do not like unethical attorneys.

BZ

[vfourbear]

I knew we had something in common, I have been a union official for two differnt unions during my work life. I've often had to deal with the paradox of working in that environment with my sometimes differing personal viewpoints. Excellent response, and I have noticed the irony of Mad Max thugs, and I loved it. And "layers of retardedness"? Priceless. I


As motorcycling grows, and more people hit the roads, I suspect that we will see more fatalities and a renewed call for mandatory helmet laws.


As for guns laws, thank God we have a constitutional amendment that specifically mentions arms. That subject would take just too long for us to cover on any discussion board.

You and I will probably always disagree that the government always know best when it comes to protecting us from ourselves, and I feel if that were really given its free reign, none of us would be allowed to ride motorcycles at all, they're just too inherently dangerous.

Since I only have about a half hour to give to this today, and I suspect that the good folks here may be a little tired of our back and forth, please allow me to give your long epistle further thought and maybe pm you.

Just the whole idea of moral relativism takes me an entire evening sometimes.

And we share your opinion of attorneys.

LOL love it bro!
LOL love it brother!

[Knife]

BZ, I totally agree with you on your opinion of lawyers. My skin literally crawls whenever I'm near one, and I literally get a bit nauseous. I guess there must be some lawyers out there who aren't scumbags, but my instincts tell me it's not true, that there are just some who may be lesser scumbags than others.

Despite your truly elegant and persuasive presentation, I still have a visceral dislike of mandates such as helmet laws. I may be impractical and a bit idealistic (even at my age), but I'm of the school that says a person needs to be willing to live with the consequences of their actions. And that means being stripped of the support they would have had if they had acted as a "prudent man." e.g., No insurance recoveries, no welfare, no food stamps, no worker's comp, no unemployment, etc., etc. In other words, no access to any and all of the social safety nets meant for those truly in need due to no fault of their own, and no access to those amenities intended to assist responsible persons. If you decide to willfully do something you know is not prudent (or in other words, outright stupid), you should be totally on your own.

But I am open minded enough to give this some more thought, and I thank you for providing some intelligent fuel.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by vfourbear

I knew we had something in common, I have been a union official for two differnt unions during my work life. I've often had to deal with the paradox of working in that environment with my sometimes differing personal viewpoints. Excellent response, and I have noticed the irony of Mad Max thugs, and I loved it. And "layers of retardedness"? Priceless. I


As motorcycling grows, and more people hit the roads, I suspect that we will see more fatalities and a renewed call for mandatory helmet laws.


As for guns laws, thank God we have a constitutional amendment that specifically mentions arms. That subject would take just too long for us to cover on any discussion board.

You and I will probably always disagree that the government always know best when it comes to protecting us from ourselves, and I feel if that were really given its free reign, none of us would be allowed to ride motorcycles at all, they're just too inherently dangerous.

Since I only have about a half hour to give to this today, and I suspect that the good folks here may be a little tired of our back and forth, please allow me to give your long epistle further thought and maybe pm you.

Just the whole idea of moral relativism takes me an entire evening sometimes.

And we share your opinion of attorneys.

LOL love it bro!
LOL love it brother!

Brother bear! I need to clarify something in my previous post.

When I said government has a vested interest in protecting its citizens who don’t protect themselves I did not mean the government always knows best when it comes to our safety. My apologies for not clarifying that statement. I should have provided an example because I knew when I wrote it it may be misinterpreted. But don’t worry I am about to!

What I meant was under our system of a democratic republic we elect individuals to govern us. Now generally we elect people who share our beliefs of how government should be operated or try to elect them to those positions. When these individuals get into office many of the people who voted them in fail to realize that the very person they voted in may have to make a decision that is for the best of the citizens, nation, etc. that goes against what the people want. And that is the mark of the true leader! They are voted in or chosen to ‘govern’ those who put them in the position. And sometimes that means coming up with a common sense solution, that is not really intrusive and still within the spirit of the principles of what we were founded upon, and applying it to the law code.

I used the 2nd Amendment as an example because like many, if not all of you, on this site believe in the individuals sovereign right to own firearms. However, I don’t think anybody here considers it unconstitutional that convicted felons and the mentally ill are barred from their ownership. Why? Because reasonable people understand they should not have them. It’s not even a debate. And again this is a guaranteed right unlike riding.

I know this may be weird comparison but motorcycling and firearms have something in common. Although they are designed for different purposes; they are extremely dangerous when treated with anything but the utmost respect and they both require training and exercise to get proficient with them.

We do not balk at government regulations saying “no guns” to certain people, why do we balk at “put a helmet on”???

Finally, I want to revisit the individual who’s voted in and makes a very good, but unpopular decision for the greater good. One of the biggest examples of this in our history is our Civil War. I know the war had some ancillary reasons why we fought it, but the main and most important reason was Lincoln knew that if he let the Southern States succeed from the Union this great “experiment”, this great country, was over. He saw that the 10th Amendment (States right to be a State) would always be carried to the extreme. Once the Supreme Court would say to a State: “Nope, the Feds are right”. Then that State would say screw you! We’ll become our own sovereign nation. Hell, the State in question may not even what for a ruling to bail out. Despite what many think, the war was not popular at first. Lincoln had a hard sell for it; he had to defend his ideas. I’m glad he did, I’m glad the Union invaded because it saved this nation from peril. Unpopular idea, but the leader in question had the foresight to know what was right outside of popular opinion.

Lincoln is one of my conservative herosJ!
So what they hell does Lincoln have to do with mandatory helmet laws? Not much really, I’m just making the point that sometimes…SOMETIMES the leaders we elect are exactly that, leaders, and they do know better despite what we are told.

BZ

[Bubba Zanetti]

Originally Posted by Knife

BZ, I totally agree with you on your opinion of lawyers. My skin literally crawls whenever I'm near one, and I literally get a bit nauseous. I guess there must be some lawyers out there who aren't scumbags, but my instincts tell me it's not true, that there are just some who may be lesser scumbags than others.

Despite your truly elegant and persuasive presentation, I still have a visceral dislike of mandates such as helmet laws. I may be impractical and a bit idealistic (even at my age), but I'm of the school that says a person needs to be willing to live with the consequences of their actions. And that means being stripped of the support they would have had if they had acted as a "prudent man." e.g., No insurance recoveries, no welfare, no food stamps, no worker's comp, no unemployment, etc., etc. In other words, no access to any and all of the social safety nets meant for those truly in need due to no fault of their own, and no access to those amenities intended to assist responsible persons. If you decide to willfully do something you know is not prudent (or in other words, outright stupid), you should be totally on your own.

But I am open minded enough to give this some more thought, and I thank you for providing some intelligent fuel.

Knife:

I love our system of government and do not believe there is necessarily a better one. However, I do believe that we have too many scumbag attorneys that get their ridiculous and asinine arguments heard in our courtrooms and in my profession. I’ve dealt with very few that are professional, courteous and intelligent in the true sense of the word. Therefore, I make it known my feelings towards them, especially when they try to craft an argument that is completely ridiculous when you boil it down to its base philosophy. And this is how you discredit the retarded attorney.

And I enjoy your statements on the ‘prudent man’. We share more in common than it may appear. Same with bear, that’s why he got another long response.

May we meet up and talk sometime.

BZ

[tgreene5]

Always have, always will wear a full-face helmet! I believe in the saying you dress for the crash, not the ride.

I believe Midias & 46Alpha said it best. Ouch!

Theresa

[vfourbear]

Originally Posted by Knife

BZ, I totally agree with you on your opinion of lawyers. My skin literally crawls whenever I'm near one, and I literally get a bit nauseous. I guess there must be some lawyers out there who aren't scumbags, but my instincts tell me it's not true, that there are just some who may be lesser scumbags than others.

Despite your truly elegant and persuasive presentation, I still have a visceral dislike of mandates such as helmet laws. I may be impractical and a bit idealistic (even at my age), but I'm of the school that says a person needs to be willing to live with the consequences of their actions. And that means being stripped of the support they would have had if they had acted as a "prudent man." e.g., No insurance recoveries, no welfare, no food stamps, no worker's comp, no unemployment, etc., etc. In other words, no access to any and all of the social safety nets meant for those truly in need due to no fault of their own, and no access to those amenities intended to assist responsible persons. If you decide to willfully do something you know is not prudent (or in other words, outright stupid), you should be totally on your own.

But I am open minded enough to give this some more thought, and I thank you for providing some intelligent fuel.

Thanks Knife, I was beginning to feel all alone out here.

I had this weird dream last night with Bubba on one side of me seducing me with his elegant arguments and eerie sense that we're brothers from different mothers, and KC-10Fe on the other side going all Full Metal Jacket on me telling me I was a FREAKIN RETARD...MAGGOT heeheeeheee

[Bubba Zanetti]

Oh bear, Let me give you a hug!

[vfourbear]

Originally Posted by Bubba Zanetti

Oh bear, Let me give you a hug!

"sniff" Thanks Bubba

[OldPueblo]

Maybe I need to make my view on this subject a little more clear. Lets take the rights thing a step further... Like back to natural selection. If you are dumb enough to ride without a helmet, then you are a fool who deserves his fate (and much increased likelihood of death by collision with inanimate object). But I still don't want someone telling me I have to wear one because they said so.

[supervfr]

Originally Posted by OldPueblo

Maybe I need to make my view on this subject a little more clear. Lets take the rights thing a step further... Like back to natural selection. If you are dumb enough to ride without a helmet, then you are a fool who deserves his fate (and much increased likelihood of death by collision with inanimate object). But I still don't want someone telling me I have to wear one because they said so.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[Knife]

Originally Posted by KC-10 FE

My views on helmet wear are well known on this site. To recap for those not familiar with my brand of vitriol, I NEVER & will NEVER ride without a helmet, period end of story.

To further this, I think anyone who actually chooses to not wear a helmet is a, ready, here it comes: A GREAT BIG FREAKING RETARDED ASSHOLE. Ask the gent present at BZ's little BBQ, I have zero problem telling someone what I think. Everyone else should be this passionate about our chosen sport. All responsible riders need to start weeding out the idiots. I actively go out of my way to insult those that do not wear helmets. Will this ever make a difference? I doubt it. Is there a chance that I can change a single person's mind? Yes. To me, that one person is worth the "fight" since they can spread the wisdom in turn. All of us need to start targeting the idiot, yesterday.

KC-10 FE out...

I like your idea of being a vocal advocate for ATGATT. I've already made some progress where I work with a guy who has never worn any gear of any kind ever in his entire life, other than a near-useless brain bucket.

He'd see me arrive in the morning all 100% ATGATT. The first few times he just made fun of me, but I wasn't having any of it. As time went by, he started talking to me and asking me questions. We got through the "it's too hot", "it's too uncomfortable", "I don't feel free", "it's not cool" issues the first few discussions.

In later discussions we talked about the things I never want to go through, or have my family and friends go through, such as an untimely death, brain damage and being a vegetable (even though my wife says I'm pretty close already), parralysis, massive skin grafts, impotence (his ears really perked up with this far-fetched notion, though a possibility - I did do a job on my nut sack once long ago when I accidently downshifted into first from third and slammed my pelvis hard into the bars - and, no, I don't know how anyone could ever do something that stupid, but I found a way), loss of income, gigantic medical bills, etc. etc. I referred him to the Road Rash Queen site and a few others.

Last Thursday he stopped by my office and asked me where I got my pants and jacket, what kind of protection they afforded, and what they cost. I showed him my gear inside and out, and had him try it on. Now, he's actually going to buy some gear! I told him he was welcome to borrow some of mine until his is delivered.

So to make a long story short (too late, I know), speaking out forcefully and knowledgibly does work, at least sometimes. Even just once is worth the effort. So, thank you KC-10 FE. "Pay it forward" is the way to go!

[drewl]

Super freaking cool.
Positive peer pressure at its' best.

[Mainjet]

Even this guy is smart enough to wear a helmet. If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough.YouTube - Naked rider falls off his bike

[supervfr]

What all equipment can you get? all i have ever worn is pants a helmet and gloves. tho iv been on atv's my whole life and never was a very aggressive rider.

[supervfr]

I do agree with the eye protection law here. above 35 you are required to wear eye protection.

This makes sense to me, above a certain speed wind and objects can have quite an effect on your vision and can cause a crash. No helmet cannot cause a crash the way no goggles can.