sound from chain/front sprocket

[woody77]

seems like once or once every couple front sprocket turns, I'm getting a sound. At very low speed, I can hear the teeth meshing with the chain going tick-tick-tick-tick (like walking the bike slowly). At speed, it's a cha-cha-cha sound, happening faster with speed.

I've noticed that 2-3 of the links don't seem to move quite right, and I've read on here about "tight spots" on a chain. Can any one explain those, and would one of those explain this sound?

'86 VFR700F, 19K miles, 2K of which in the last year, after I bought it, after it spending most of it's life on it's side-stand.

Thanks.

[Rat]

Hmmm...

Probably time for a new chain & sprockets.
*Always replace the chain & sprockets as a set - all three items at the same time.
Worn sprockets will wipe out a new chain in short order, and vice-versa.
The chain is the expensive part ($120-$160ish); don't cheap out and skip the sprockets ($40-$60ish for both).

"Tight Spots" could be a couple of things:

1) Tight links (which you seem to describe).
Put the bike on the centerstand, transmission in neutral, and roll the wheel around a few revolutions and observe how the chain looks.
If a few individual links appear to remain slightly bent in the "flat" section of the chain run between the sprockets, then they're "frozen" - *usually slightly rusty as well.
It's possible to free up frozen links with liberal applications of WD-40, followed by real chain lube.
However, it's still just a temporary measure. The chain will need to be replaced very soon thereafter anyway.

2) Worn, out-of-round sprockets.
While observing the chain as above, if the chain seems to be very slack during part of a revolution, then gets very tight like a guitar string for no apparent reason, the sprockets are out-of-round.
This is not uncommon when the chain and sprockets are worn out.
There is no "budget fix" for this. The sprockets are done.

There are a couple of other methods to check actual chain & sprocket wear, but considering the bike has 19k miles, and has apparently had suspect maintenance, it is very likely the chain and sprockets are simply finished, and due for replacement.

19k - 20k or thereabouts is probably the best one could hope for from a chain/sprockets with minimal maintenance.

FWIW, I've used almost exclusively RK chains & Renthal sprockets on many bikes, and with excellent maintenance they'll go 50k or more miles, in all weather.

My method is simple - Chain Maintenance 101:
Periodically (300-600ish miles, or whenever the chain appears dry), at the end of a ride, place the bike up on the centerstand, trans in Neutral, engine OFF for safety.
Spray a rag with WD-40 (spraying the rag and not the chain keeps the lube off the tire & brake rotor, and nothing cuts through chain lube & fling grime like WD-40) and wipe down the entire chain and sprocket teeth periodically.
Then wipe everything completely clean and dry with a clean rag to remove residual WD-40 & gunk.
Lube the chain with an actual motorcycle chain lube (my favorite is Maxima Chain Wax - minimal fling and stays clean).
Rotate the rear wheel by hand, and spray the lube into the little gaps between the rollers and the sideplates. Don't worry, overspray will lube the o-rings sufficiently unless REALLY dry and neglected.
It's best to do this after a ride while the chain is warm so the crud comes off more easily and the fresh lube will penetrate better.
Let the new lube set up overnite, then wipe everything down with a DRY rag before the next ride to minimize fling.

Repeat every 300-600-odd miles, depending on conditions, or whenever the chain starts to appear dry.
The chain should always appear new, clean, shiny and with a slight moist gleam.
Just take a look at the chain after every ride and you'll know when it needs a little TLC.

The chain & sprockets are the hardest working, yet probably most neglected components on a bike.
If proper maintenance is done frequently, they never get really dirty and grimy, so your hands stay fairly clean.

*WD-40 will also clean the chain-lube fling and road grime from the rear wheel & bodywork, and will not harm paint.

[woody77]

Thanks, I'll dig into that tonight, after a short ride to warm stuff up.

The bike has definitely had an odd life (or maybe not as odd as I'd think), but the previous owner put maybe a couple hundred miles on it over probably 5 years, the rest of the time, just sitting in the garage. The owner before that rode it about as much. I think it's spent 15 years+ total in garages, not being ridden often.

Once I got it home, I dug into it, and have been slowly doing all the maintenance that needs to be done (basically the full 16K service). I've replaced every fluid aside from the clutch and the forks. And checked everything but the valves (which I know I need to do, but am waiting for the free weekend to tear into it enough to get there). Sprockets are showing minimal wear.

I do have a spot on the chain that doesn't properly straighten out like that. I've been debating just replacing the chain/sprockets just to be up to a clean slate on that regard.

One of the downsides of buying an old, used, bike is the shear amount of maint work you pile into it vs. the cost of the newer bikes. Still, I'm into it $<2K I think... :)

[woody77]

My wife's hawk was making some similar sounds as mine does (with less than 1K on a new chain/sprockets set). Today the front sprocket tried to walk off the transmission counter-shaft, destroying the splines on both. Parts cost isn't that high, but ooooh boy is the labor going to be fun (she's planning on tearing into it herself, though).

Anyway, mine is grounded until I figure out what exactly is the cause of the sound I have. Although my drive sprocket is held on completely differently, and doesn't appear from the outside to be loose at all.

[rodon]

Originally Posted by woody77

I do have a spot on the chain that doesn't properly straighten out like that. I've been debating just replacing the chain/sprockets just to be up to a clean slate on that regard.

One of the downsides of buying an old, used, bike is the shear amount of maint work you pile into it vs. the cost of the newer bikes. Still, I'm into it $<2K I think... :)

Dude - that chain is shot. Don't waste any time trying to revive it, that is a very temporary measure at best. As someone already mentioned, 19k+ miles is really good life for a chain. It makes sense to replace the sprockets at the same time. Not hard to do. Do you know somebody with a chain tool that can help you out? A good one can run $100 or so.

If you're going to keep the bike, the peace of mind will be priceless.

[woody77]

The current chain is a master link style chain, so it will be easy to get off the bike. I'd like to get a chain tool, so I can switch it to riveted masters when I replace it.

Getting the bike up on a rear-stand last night, and spinning the rear tire, some *ooooddddd* sounds are coming from the front sprocket area, and possibly the rear as well. Hopefully tonight I'll have time to get the sprocket cover off, pop the chain apart, and see how things look.

Although I had the same thing up front, and just the act of taking the front wheel off, and re-installing it (properly torquing everything and adjusting the front rotor clearance) made it go away...

[woody77]

Bike's been grounded since the above post... with the crap winter weather, not missing much riding, until now, when it's just gorgeous out.

The chain is missing o-rings in places, others are clearly split... It's dead, Jim.

Front sproket was... interesting. part of the sprocket had worn through and off, part of a wide guide with a rubber ring in it, I think for the link-plates to rest against. I'll post up pic's after I take a few.

Front clutch fluid was orange with rust. Hadn't ever been bled, I think.

Not a cheap day.

[rngdng]

In the future, oil the chain now and then. I've met many people that firmly believe o-ring chains don't need lube, but that's simply not true. The rollers don't get lube unless you supply it, and when they start going, it's over.


Lane

[Lgn001]

For what it is worth, when you replace the countershaft sprocket it might be worth cleaning the splines exceptionally well and applying some lithium-based wheel bearing grease. I have an '83 CB1100F that has slightly worn splines on the countershaft, and it was making a little "click-click" noise at really low speeds. When I took it apart, the splines were rusty with shiny spots. A new sprocket and grease took care of it. The splines are quite serviceable, which is a good thing. Honda still sells a lot of parts for their older bikes, but I would hate to see what a new countershaft would cost...

Anyway, when I got the new sprocket for the F, it fit a lot better than the one that came off, but was a little sloppier than I wanted it to be. The grease seemed to do the trick.

[woody77]

I actually have been lubing the chain. I put 2K miles on it last summer, but I think the damage had been done before I bought the bike. It sat garaged for a couple years at a time at each of the last owners. The original owner put something like 15K of 19K on it, and the last two totalled about what I've put on it in the last year since buying it.

Still going over it and finding stuff that needs to be done.

Thanks for the tip to grease the splines. I'm going to have to invest in a bunch of different grease types, I'm thinking, before this project (and my wife's hawk) are all done.

The countershafts aren't as expensive as you'd think. $130 for a new one for my wife's hawk. Front sprocket retainer plate failed, and the splines on both the sprocket and the countershaft were mangled when it tried to fall off. Luckily my bike isn't showing any damage at all to the splines, and the sprocket fit nice and snug after I removed the sprocket bolt.

[Lgn001]

It was the "click-click" noise that brought it back to me; I had forgotten about it. Glad yours is OK. And for what it's worth, I'll bet I have at least ten to fifteen different kind of lubricants that are used for various things. And then there is the gasket sealers and the tools...

[woody77]

Know of any good guides to grease?

Looks like the grease I have is NLGI #2 lithium complex thickener, with moly:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ghd.aspx

The manual says Moly grease in some places, and lithium in others... But doesn't reference any grades or specs... I'd always thought lithium was the white stuff.

[squirrelman]

AS stated,you need new chain and sprockets.
THE kinks indicate rust inside pins, likely from deteriorated o-rings.

STOCK original chains usually don't last more that about 20,000 miles.

[Lgn001]

This is a good place for some info:

http://www.mindconnection.com/librar...easecompat.htm

For the most part, I use BelRay waterproof grease for all of the hand levers, footpegs, and chassis stuff that can get wet. I'll use wheel bearing grease for, what else, wheel bearings. Generally, I'll buy the high-temp, high-pressure Moly stuff for general bike and garage use. It's thicker then "normal" wheel bearing grease, but it's more durable and has a higher film strength. I suspect it's kind of like motor oils or tires; we all use what we use.

If you go to Google and search on "moly versus lithium grease", you'll get way more info than you'll ever care about. For the most part, as far as I can tell, most automotive greases are lithium based; it's what's added to them that makes the difference.

[woody77]

Originally Posted by squirrelman

AS stated,you need new chain and sprockets.
THE kinks indicate rust inside pins, likely from deteriorated o-rings.

STOCK original chains usually don't last more that about 20,000 miles.

definitely not arguing with it. Especially not after I got it off the bike and started looking at it closely. missing o-rings, rusted links, blued rollers... and yet the rear sprocket looks fine. Replacing them both, just in case.