Brake Pad Replacement

[Wu-Viffer]

Has anyone done a front and rear brake pad replacement lately on a 5th gen VFR? If so, would you mind going through the basic steps? Should you replace the brake fluid at the same time?

Thanks,
Mel

[drewl]

how old is the fluid?

[Wu-Viffer]

It's about 1.5 years old, now. It looks a little discolored, I thought it might be a good idea to change it while i had everything apart, but wasn't sure if it was necessary.

[drewl]

some conservatives would say do it, but a year and a half is't that long. especially considering how much work it is...

[Wu-Viffer]

Yeah, I heard it was a real pain in the ass. I bought some speed bleeders hoping that might make it a little more tolerable. Have you ever used those things?

[drewl]

I have not, but alot of people consider them a necessity.
I have not done my brake fluid yet either. Not on this bike anyway.

[flameface]

replacing the pads first and replace the fluid later. Pad replacement: pull the right caliper. pull the wheel. Replace the right caliper. Unscrew the pad retention pins and the spring "clips" will almost eject the pads by themselves. Use Honda pads and they come with new spring clips. Install the new pads, compressing the spring clips. Reinstall the retention pins, torque them up. Remove the right caliper (again). Reinstall the wheel. Reinstall and torque the caliper. DON'T touch the brake lever while the wheel is out!!!

[Wu-Viffer]

So, I bought non OEM brake pads (their made by the Wave rotor people). Are the clips reuseable, or am I going to have to buy them, too?

Thanks,
Mel

[Joey_Dude]

replacing the pads first and replace the fluid later. Pad replacement: pull the right caliper. pull the wheel. Replace the right caliper. Unscrew the pad retention pins and the spring "clips" will almost eject the pads by themselves. Use Honda pads and they come with new spring clips. Install the new pads, compressing the spring clips. Reinstall the retention pins, torque them up. Remove the right caliper (again). Reinstall the wheel. Reinstall and torque the caliper. DON'T touch the brake lever while the wheel is out!!!

You can do this even easier by not even taking the wheel off. I've done it and you just need a little patience to work the new pads in. Just slide the new pads in and slide the pin in and bam you're done.

As for the brake fluid if it's showing discoloration might as well go ahead and do it since you're doing the front pads anyway. If your brake lever feels spongy make that high priority. I did my front brake and it's much more responsive after replacing the brake fluid.

Get the service manual from VFRD - vfrdiscussion home (Register and go to the downloads section)

[mello dude]

Yeah, I heard it was a real pain in the ass. I bought some speed bleeders hoping that might make it a little more tolerable. Have you ever used those things?

Speed bleeders are great! Makes it much easier. Joeys right you probly dont have to take off the wheel. Dont know for sure, I have never replaced the stock brake pads.

MD

[flameface]

leaving the wheel on would be a total PitA. By removing the wheel, and having the calipers bolted up to the fork legs, they are "fixtured" so they aren't wiggling around in your left hand while you try to stuff the pads in with your right hand. believe me, you will find the job much easier if you pull the wheel and work on the calipers while they are bolted to something solid.

Yes, you can re-use the stock "clips", but whether they fit onto non-OEM pads is anybody's guess...

[flameface]

MD...you've never replaced your brake pads on a '98??? What do you do, coast up to stops?

[DANIMAL]

replaced my pads on my 6th gen.
1. compress pistons by pushing caliper wih your hands against rotor
2. remove pin
3. pull out both pads
4. slide in new pads
5. replace pin
took all of 7 min per side
do not forget to pump bralke levers to reseat pads or when you try to stop the first time you won't have any brakes. It'll scare the crap out of you. believe me! I know.

[mello dude]

MD...you've never replaced your brake pads on a '98??? What do you do, coast up to stops?

Yup, never replaced the stock front brake pads on the '98. Ok that was a trick - I have RC51 calipers on the front - I've definately have replaced those.

MD

[Wu-Viffer]

I think I'll probably take the wheel off considering this is my first time, and I want to get a good look at everything. I'm wondering about these OEM clips and if they are going to fit on my new brake pads. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for all of the advice,
Mel

[arch4ngel]

I just did mine last month, it took about 5 minutes per side.
Absolutely no need to take off the wheel.
The only hard part was holding everything in alignment until the pin slides into place.

I replaced my pads with EBC HH's and they fit fine with the clips.

[Wu-Viffer]

So, all you have to do is:

1. Hold the brake pads away from the rotor
2. Pop off the clip
3. Pull out the old brake pad
4. Put in new pad
5. Re-clip?


Seems easy enough. What about the back brake pad? That one seems more difficult without taking the wheel off.

Thanks,
Mel

[arch4ngel]

Not quite, the clips didn't even come out when I removed mine.

1. Push in the pistons (by pushing on the calipers) to make room for new pads
2. Unscrew the pad pin
3. Pull out the old brake pad (they really just pop out once clip is off)
4. Grease the back of the pad plate and the pin to prevent squeeking and binding
5. Put in new pad (make sure to align with the clip, do one side at a time so you can use the other side as a reference)
6. Install slide pin.

Also, use the brake pad lube they sell at auto parts stores, it's made specifically for the purpose.

Not sure about the rear, mine actually wore through very quickly and when I noticed they were gone, they were completely gone! I went to the shop (right next to my work) and had them throw the rear pads on for me, so I wouldn't have to drive home and do more damage to the rotor. From the looks of it though, no wheel removal is necessary. Pretty sure they didn't remove the wheel at the shop, labor cost was very small (i think they charged me a half hour for it).
If worse comes to worse, try removing the rear pads, if they won't come out remove the wheel and continue

[thinkreal]

Thought I'd throw in my recent pad change experience

Had the shop replace all pads on my '06 at the 24000Km service. Bendix pads were installed - they didn't have Honda pads in stock and reckoned all the racers were having good results with Bendix at half the price.

All seemed good for about a week, when I started to get shudders.

With light/medium pressure on the back brake pedal, the front would shudder, sometimes light vibration, others quite rough shaking.

Never happened using the front lever, or with heavy pressure. Didn't seem to happen above 60Km/h but I wasn't game to do a lot of high-speed testing. Stopping was otherwise good - plenty of grip, no squealing or grinding.

Got it back to the shop after about 10 days. They checked over the system, did more bleeding (found a bit of air) but couldn't find/make a difference.

We agreed to put Honda pads in, one consideration being the lack of spring plates on the Bendix. The Bendix came off with a weird coppery glaze on the back ones, the front looked more normal but also a bit silver shiny. Honda pads went in, and everything has been perfect since.

My mechanix used this to convince the boss to stock more genuine parts, at least for machines like the VFR - I'm happy to pay what it costs for my ride to be what I bought it for. It's not a racer, but it's not cheap transport either (it costs more to run than our CRV).

Anybody else seen this?

Ez

BTW - first post!

[mello dude]

Thought I'd throw in my recent pad change experience

Had the shop replace all pads on my '06 at the 24000Km service. Bendix pads were installed - they didn't have Honda pads in stock and reckoned all the racers were having good results with Bendix at half the price.

All seemed good for about a week, when I started to get shudders.

With light/medium pressure on the back brake pedal, the front would shudder, sometimes light vibration, others quite rough shaking.

Never happened using the front lever, or with heavy pressure. Didn't seem to happen above 60Km/h but I wasn't game to do a lot of high-speed testing. Stopping was otherwise good - plenty of grip, no squealing or grinding.

Got it back to the shop after about 10 days. They checked over the system, did more bleeding (found a bit of air) but couldn't find/make a difference.

We agreed to put Honda pads in, one consideration being the lack of spring plates on the Bendix. The Bendix came off with a weird coppery glaze on the back ones, the front looked more normal but also a bit silver shiny. Honda pads went in, and everything has been perfect since.

My mechanix used this to convince the boss to stock more genuine parts, at least for machines like the VFR - I'm happy to pay what it costs for my ride to be what I bought it for. It's not a racer, but it's not cheap transport either (it costs more to run than our CRV).

Anybody else seen this?

Ez

BTW - first post!

My 2 cents - I'll qualify- I could be full of it.
That out of the way - - I was unaware that Bendix even made brake pads for motorcycles. But my guess coming from the automotive engineering world is that Bendix has a couple/three brake pad formulations that they use everywhere. Being a big conglomerate corporation, cost reduction is a major factor and I expect they have a plant to make service brake pads that throws in the cars and bikes with the same formulation in that plant. I really doubt that they give consideration to whether the pad is a bike or a car.

That said - your bike has the power to weight ratio of better than a Corvette and needs appropriate pads to match the bike. Use stock Honda pads or better! EBC/Forodo etc. Bikes need Bike pads. My guess is Bendix is not it.
Maybe with some of the older machines you could get away with it, but certainly not any recent modern machine of the last 10 - 15 years.

I think your boss deserves a whack on the side of the head. Or another way -
does he want to be sued because a customer wrecked because the brake pads were inappropriate?

MD

BTW - I formerly engineered automotive brakes for 10 years.

[Wu-Viffer]

So, I just finished changing the brake pads and bleeding the brake lines. Everything went fine, didn't have to take the wheels off or anything. BUT, now the brakes are really tight, and it seems like they are always slightly 'on.' Is there something you have to reset somewhere when you put new brake pads on that are thicker than the old ones that came off? I thought there were some springs in there that automatically adjusted it to the appropriate tension, but that doesn't seem to be working properly. Any ideas? It doesn't seem like a good idea to keep riding with the brakes always slightly on.


Thanks,
Mel

[arch4ngel]

How did you determine the brakes are dragging?
When up on the center stand, does the rear rotate freely?

If you pushed in the pistons, there should have been plenty room to install the new pads. Once installed you have to squeeze the brake levers a few times to get them back in place. Once there, they definitely should not drag

Also, did you lube the slider pins?

[Wu-Viffer]

How did you determine the brakes are dragging?
When up on the center stand, does the rear rotate freely?

If you pushed in the pistons, there should have been plenty room to install the new pads. Once installed you have to squeeze the brake levers a few times to get them back in place. Once there, they definitely should not drag

Also, did you lube the slider pins?

Well, I had it up on the center stand, and the back wheel rotates, but defintely not freely, and the front wheel is even tighter. I took it out for a test drive, and I could feel that I had to work against the brakes and apply more throttle. I got the pads in alright by pushing the pistons all the way in, but it just feels like they're rubbing now (and it's because they are!). Is it possible to get the slider pins into the new pads without the pads being in the right spot? That's all I can come up with, but everything went together fine, and nothing is noticeably out of whack. I did not lube the slider pins, though, maybe I should try that next.

Thanks,
Mel

[arch4ngel]

I would def lube those pins, as that can stop the pads from moving correctly.
Also, I could be wrong here, but I think improper bleeding can cause that symptom as well.
I know there is a specific order to bleeding, you followed the manual, right? Did you see this problem before you started bleeding?
Lastly, it could be that your calipers need rebuilding due to a sticking piston. That would be the last place I check, personally.

Hope this helps.

[Joey_Dude]

When I replaced my brake pads (both front and back) they rubbed a little and that is normal. The pads do have to break in and it should take between 200-300 miles before they start getting back to normal.

Try riding your bike for a week and see if the rubbing eventually goes away. If not, then you might have to take the calipers off and reset them. It's actually an easy procedure just a pain in the a$$ to take them off.

[drewl]

+1 on the pins. also check to pistons to see if they got gummed up from being extended all the time with the worn pads. clean them up, see if you can work them after that. Then check the fluid levels and maybe re-bleed. I had to rebuild the calipers on my 88 yami because the pistons got ALL crapped up and trashed the caliper seals.

On another note, I have not changed the pads on my 2000. Still stock. They only have 11,000 miles on them. More going then stopping I guess.

[Wu-Viffer]

So, I think the problem is fixed now. I did two things: I cleaned and relubed the slider pins, and I also forced a putty knife up in between the pad and rotor to push the calipers all the way in and take some fluid out of the lines. I was worried that with the new pads and the reservoir being so full that there wasn't enough room for the pads to retract. Unfortunately, I didn't do these two things in a step-wise fashion, so I'm not sure which one actually fixed the problem, but the problem seems to be fixed nonetheless. I am going to give it a week or two and see what happens. I noticed that there is a small lip on the right side rotor, and I'm wondering if that was left from the last pads and just needs to be worn some.

Thanks for all the help, this site never disappoints.

Mel

[arch4ngel]

Glad to hear it worked.
Don't forget to follow break in procedure for brakes

[Wu-Viffer]

I have been slowly working these new brakes in (as suggested), and I took a longish ride down the coast on Hwy 1 yesterday to test them out. Damn, I should have done this a lot earlier. Between the new pads and the new fluid, my braking power has increased dramatically. And I gotta say, I can't imagine doing the brake bleeding without speed bleeders. That made it SO easy.

Thanks for everyone's help,
Mel