Blown fork seals, best instructions/tools?

[woody77]

Riding home last night, the bike felt way too soft, and a bit squirrelly in turns, and stopped to check tire pressure (down again, @^#$ slow leak). and then I saw what's in the attached image.

Right fork seal is blown, and leaking all over the fender (and I'm guessing the tire, too).

So, it's parked until I get this fixed (fork oil on tire == bad day).

Found lots of threads saying it's easy and straightforward to do a rebuild on your own, for about $75 in parts. RaceTech carries parts for it all, and I'm sure that BikeBandit.com does as well.

Now, the questions:

- I've got the honda manual, and not looked into it too far, but special tools for seating the fork seals: Best to just buy them, or use the PVC. I don't want to spend a lot of time dinking around. If PVC works without lots of fiddling, that's ok, but if it requires anything beyond a cut to length, sand smooth, and maybe slit in two, I think I'm buying the tools (my time is worth more than that right now).

- While I have it apart, RaceTech valve emulators?

- Or, should I just take the bike in and have them do it (and probably do it better)?

Estimated time for someone that's comfy taking stuff apart and putting it back together, but hasn't done this? No air tools, no special tools, just lots of sockets.

Thanks much,

[squirrelman]

Easy, really, once the bottom 6mm bolt is loose and IF you can get the snap ring out of its groove without damage,,,,,,and that's easy too, IF you have a snap ring pliers and if corrosion hasn't set in.

HONDA factory original seal kits sell for around $40 each.

WASH out the bottom fork tubes with solvent to fully remove any traces of grey sludge at bottom.

wash alll parts in solvent and dry before reassembly.

clean surface of fork tubes before assembly

use the old seal along with the pvc to get the new seal pushed in.
seals must go in straight, not crooked.

PROPER SIDE of seal MUST point UP !!!

fully seated means having the snap ring groove even and above seal.

TIME (after forks are removed) only 1 to 1 1/2 hours for a novice.

use lots of fork oil as lube on new seals.


OH, While it's apart.........progressive springs make a VERY noticable improvement and work with emulators too.


The very correct thing to do is INSTALL NEW SNAP RINGS, but no one bothers unless original ring is distorted from removal.

Fill forks with 10 wt fork oil as per factory shop manual......

make damn sure the bottom bolt is sufficiently tight on reassembly

INSPECT your BRAKE PADS on the side that leaked, because if fork oil ran onto brakes everything must be cleaned up before riding, if you want front brakes.

that's about all there is to it, easy?

[woody77]

That's pretty much what the shop manual made it look like it would be.

The bottom bolt... Looks like that's part of the bear of the job. The other being the snap-rings.

How far down are the snap-rings? at the bottom of the tapered top of the sliders? If so, I'll be picking up new snap-ring pliers, that are about 2" long.

So, sounds like my parts list should be:

- new seals (obviously blown)
- new bushings (20K miles)
- new snap rings (because my house is an hour from new rings if they get screwed up).
- solvent (what's recommended?)

and then...

- RaceTech springs
- RaceTech valve emulators

RaceTech's nifty calculator states that the stock springs are something like half the rate they should be for my measly 165lb weight... But then spring replacement looks to be about totally cake (support bike, pull the tops, spacers and springs and replace with new ones).

The valve emulators are really what has me unsure. I'll be calling the local two shops I trust tomorrow and see what they'll quote me for this. I'm just in the middle of about 4 other big projects on the house right now.

Thanks for the tip about the brakes.. I'll make sure I go over everything VERY well during tear-down and re-assembly.

[drewl]

I am doing this next week. I will remove the forks from the bike. Take them to the dealer and pay them 85 bucks plus parts to do it right. 85 bucks is a small enough price to pay for peace of mind. I don't want to trash a set of seals or jack up my forks by trying to monkey it myself.
It is cheaper at the dealer when you take them off the bike yourself.

[david.vfr]

I just did mine...easy job if you take the time. This video helped me:
YouTube - Replace your fork seals - dismantling the forks

[woody77]

That was an interesting conversation with the shop. $160+parts, if I drop off the forks, no biggie.

I mentioned RaceTech, and got a long spiel on how they're stuff just isn't very high quality, and to go with Lindemann Engineering instead. Considering how well respected RaceTech seems to be on this board, it was a little surprising.

At least I have an answer from them on the cost of putting in the valve emulators: they won't.

[drewl]

Yeah, I didn't even bother asking about valves and springs. Kind of expected the same reaction.

[dreamer]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm about to do my forks on my 2000 vfr and this gives me more confidence. thought i'd just do the oil and seals, but what will the springs and valve emulators do for me? Bought my bike 2nd hand with 90,000 km (55k miles), ya im a canuck... I think the guy did the forks once b4 i got the bike. just turned 125,000 klicks and I think its time again..... If weight of rider is a concern, then i am interested in knowing the benefits of the springs and what the valve emulators do...

[woody77]

Dreamer,

My bike doesn't have valves, just the damping rods, so the conversion for my bike is from damping rods to valves.

I found my other local shop (same distance, other direction) will install the RaceTech valve emulators, another hour of labor over just a fork rebuild.

Seems like it's probably worth it.

I also put an e-mail off to Lindemann about what he can do.

[dreamer]

guess i need to read my manual. didn't realize the age of your bike. Saw drewls comment and thought it was worth an ask. im gonna take the forks off, but have a local shop take care of the seals. after reading the book, i'll check on what might be needed, if anything for improvement in the front end. i weigh in at 230, so that might be reason for a little extra support up front.

[drewl]

I'm 225 but too cheap for the full upgrade just yet.

[woody77]

Lindemann recommends just rebuilding the stock forks for proper weight and with proper springs.

It's $375 for that (price is online) service.

So, choices:

- Stock spec rebuild (bushings/seals) $170+parts (say $250)
- Rebuild with upgraded springs (RaceTech/Progressive) (roughly $350)
- Lindemann's rebuild/revalve/respring ($375)
- Rebuild with stock springs and RaceTech Valve Emulator ~$550
- Rebuild with upgraded springs and RaceTech Valve Emulator ~$650

Seems like Lindemann's rebuild is probably the best bet, especially since he's closest to me.

[woody77]

Wow, pulling the forks is easy-peasy. Hardest part was finding where my 6mm allen-wrench got off to.

Didn't bother to disassemble the handlebars, just loosened them up, removed the retaining rings, and then dropped the forks out with the bars in place (and padded).

I compressed them by hand a few times and on rebound they make some pretty interesting gurgling noises... I'm guessing that's not good/normal.

Anyway, I'll drop them off tomorrow at Lindemann's. I just don't have time right now to do this right. And he'll do far more than I can do.

[dreamer]

Thanks for the great info. I thought initially of just doing oil and seals, well, taking the forks in to reputable dealer and having them do the rest. Now I am definitely looking into the options. what will the valve emulator do for me? If not much, I think I will opt for the Lindemans re and re for $375, but then again, the bike shops up here are probably a little more costly, but I'll know tomorrow, as all shops weren't open today.

[woody77]

Dropped off at Lindemann's. Tiny shop, but TONS of forks lying around. Jim asked what my bike was, weight, and where I rode (Hwy 9 commute, not weekend canyon racing).

I need to call him back and mention that he can do whatever he wants to the TRAC system (disabling is fine by me).

I did some digging online, and he seems to be more than a little well-regarded.

Seems like a nice guy, low key, signed thank-you posters everywhere, and lots of forks. Did I mention the forks? I saw some Ohlins forks in the back that were just insanely huge in dia.

[woody77]

Picked up the rebuilt forks on Friday, installed them today. $<400 for the work, not bad at all. They upgraded the springs from the stock ~.5 kg/mm springs for 1.0kg/mm springs. New seals, not sure what changes they made to the damping, if anything. The new springs are clearly 2x stiffer when trying to compress by hand, and the bike moves around on them far less (when I lowered the jack, the bike sagged far less than before.

TRAC system is still there and operable, Jim said to leave it on the lowest setting, though.

And then...

No clutch. Not sure if it was the master being on it's side for two weeks, or what, but no clutch. I'm going to fully bleed the system tonight, and see if that makes it better.

[dreamer]

Wow. I havent checked on price here in Kamloops, BC. Been too busy on the road etc. I will definitely check tomorrow. Good luck with the clutch. The master being on its side may have introduced air into the line. Not sure how to bleed that, but i'm thinking this is a possibility.

[woody77]

That's what I think it was, will find out as soon as I can dig into it.

[woody77]

Bleeding by hand didn't get me very far, but I was expecting that. It took almost an hour to bleed my clutch when I last tore into the clutch. So I made an adapter (click here) for my Motive Power Bleeder that fits the bikes. Clutch is bleed, and working correctly again, but still haven't ridden it. I should be able to take it out today for a test-ride, finally...

[drewl]

Took mine out and took them to the shop. Glad I did. Very nice to have the bike back together knowing they were doe professionally. That 90 bucks for labor is a good price for piece of mind.