Best time to re-fuel??

fotodaddy · 11-08-2008, 10:57 PM

Hey guys, a couple of friends an I have been trying to figure out this puzzle.

One group say "re-fuel when almost empty and that we you save on time"
other group say "re-fuel every 60 - 100 miles, that way you have fuel which cools your pump so less trips to thedealer to replace fuel pumps"

What do you guys say. Remember that here in Nigeria the ambient can get to 45C

fotodaddy · 11-11-2008, 09:17 AM

Does this deafening silence mean that there are no opinions on this subject??

derstuka · 11-11-2008, 09:25 AM

I just usually fuel up with 2 (or 3) bars left on the fuel gauge....main reason is I always think of sucking up the debris/gunk sitting in the bottom of the tank (and helping clog my fuel filter faster) if I let it get too low.

bakchizhai · 11-11-2008, 11:10 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, I always thought gas tanks have the fuel pump at the bottom of the tank anyways. Isn't that necessary to keep fuel delivery considering the fuel level changes?

I know for a fact that's true on my car as I've seen it. so it's sucking the mythical gunk/debris at the bottom anyways! boo!

Anyways, back to OP. Isn't just filling up whenever you need gas the best? fuel is flowing through the pump regardless of how much gas is in the tank.

ILVFR75 · 11-11-2008, 11:15 AM

I say fill up when you get to "E". Unless you're riding on absolute fumes, I don't think you'll be damaging your fuel pump. Then again, I'm no mechanic, only my opinion.

emptyskull · 11-11-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILVFR75

I say fill up when you get to "E". Unless you're riding on absolute fumes, I don't think you'll be damaging your fuel pump. Then again, I'm no mechanic, only my opinion.

carry xtra gas in a coke bottle then fuel after you run out, make sure not to spill it on your extra car battery..

fotodaddy · 11-11-2008, 12:35 PM

Folks, the idea is that the pump sits in the tank and has fuel all around it to cool it. The more fuel around it the better the heat load the fuel can take away from the pump so better cooling. So with less and less fuel, there is less and less cooling.

This is what we are trying to get to the bottom of. If you constantly run on a tank that's almost empty, wont you mess up your pump faster since it doesn't get enough cooling??

supervfr · 11-11-2008, 12:45 PM

cycle pumps dont get very hot. nor are my vfr or ninja in the tank. if there is gas in the tank its in the fuel pump cooling it. if there isent ur pushin the bike to the gas station.

Lgn001 · 11-11-2008, 01:39 PM

Well, just as an argument, if you have a full tank of fuel that has been warmed to 45C, it will take a lot longer to cool off in the evening hours that a partially full tank, thereby subjecting your fuel pump to a longer heat cycle.

How warm is the fuel at the filling stations? If it was significantly cooler than ambient temperature, and you were riding all day long, there might be some value in filling up at the halfway mark, just to lower the average fuel temperature. But since I have nothing more than a very basic understanding of thermodynamics, this is all pretty much academic on my part.

Do you guys really have heat-related fuel pump failures?

fotodaddy · 11-11-2008, 02:04 PM

We have a lot of issue with fuel pumps etc. But I cant say that problems are fuel temperature related though.

Spike · 11-12-2008, 02:11 PM

I ususally run it to below 2 bars, simply cause I don't want to waste the time stopping to fill up more often than I have to.
My gut reaction is that the fuel pump was designed to be run on a low tank, otherwise the design of the pump or tank could be changed. But that is a total guess on my part.

Molsan · 11-12-2008, 02:29 PM

I usually keep 2 bars mainly so i don't run out. this works if i need to rip out and do something not thinking "oh i have to fill up first."

As for the fuel pump overheating.

You basically want to know if the fuel acts as a heat sink for the heat generated by the pump because fuel has a higher coefficient for transfer of heat and also absorbs more heat energy before heating up.
This theory depends on a few things.
1) that the fuel pump generates heat and overheats. I'm Canadian and it snowed this morning...so i have had 0 problems with this. So can't help you.
2) that the fuel pump sits in the fuel. http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/...roup/FUEL_TANK gives a plan of the tank but still not sure if this is true as i have not really looked into my tank to see the pump to be honest.

Theory sounds valid that you would want to keep the pump under the level of the fuel if the pump is generating significant amounts of heat and is surrounded by fuel.

I do have my doubts that the vfr fuel pump does generate so much heat that a liquid heat sink is needed but i have also never touched it after a long ride. Also keep in mind fuel is passing through the pump and may take some of the heat generated reguardless of tank level.

If you hear of VFR fuel pumps failing due to heat i would not hesitate to keep the fuel level up if you determine that it does sit in fuel.

RVFR · 11-12-2008, 04:56 PM

Hmm, I pretty darn sure the pump is not in the tank. so I say fuel it on the relationship to when the next fuel stop could be, nothing worse than to be stranded out in the middle of no where.

drewl · 11-12-2008, 05:03 PM

On the 5th gen at least, the pump is located at the rear bottom end of the tank on a disc bolted to the tank. I run my bike in temps of 20-105 F. Not had to replace the fuel pump in 8 years.

julianivfr · 11-12-2008, 09:02 PM

Foto, carry ya okada cruise, jare. Honda no dey spoil. Dis one na original, made in Japan. E no be made in Taiwan. You don reach ya 600 miles? If you never reach, work plenty for you. Instead may you dey twist throttle dey enjoy de VTEC, una dey yarn fuel pump. We suppose suspend you from dis site until you reach 5k miles. Shame on you. LMAO!!

On a serious note, though, Arizona is a much, much hotter place than Nigeria is. I have not heard of very many fuel pump complaints. The only reason I can think of for your fuel pumps failing over there will be if your country is selling inferior quality petrol to the public. A stock VFR should pass the quality/emissions standards of almost any country in the world.

By the way, Kedu?

DANIMAL · 11-12-2008, 09:21 PM

on a 6 thgen fuel pump is in the tank.
how many fuel pump failures are you guys having out there?

chomper · 11-12-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotodaddy

We have a lot of issue with fuel pumps etc. But I cant say that problems are fuel temperature related though.

I think Honda has figured out how to make a fuel pump so i wouldn't worry about it, fill up when its convenient thats what i do. however ford Chrysler and Gm still haven't. dont run those vehicles under a quarter tank unless you want early pump failure repair shops love those guys.

emptyskull · 11-13-2008, 12:22 AM

just add slick 50 gas treatment will help the fuelpump pump faster more hp..

CaptainBart · 11-13-2008, 08:23 PM

I tell ya I am an expert at this....Refuel before you have to push!

Richard Thompson · 11-13-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptyskull

just add slick 50 gas treatment will help the fuelpump pump faster more hp..

LOL....

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11-08-2008, 10:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
fotodaddy Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Last Online: 12-28-2008 08:47 AM Location: Lagos, Nigeria. My Ride: THEN 1999 CBR600F NOW 2008, VFR ABS View my Photo Gallery Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Best time to re-fuel?? Hey guys, a couple of friends an I have been trying to figure out this puzzle. One group say "re-fuel when almost empty and that we you save on time" other group say "re-fuel every 60 - 100 miles, that way you have fuel which cools your pump so less trips to thedealer to replace fuel pumps" What do you guys say. Remember that here in Nigeria the ambient can get to 45C

11-11-2008, 09:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
derstuka CrAcKbRaInEd MoDeRaToR Join Date: Jan 2007 Last Online: Yesterday 08:32 PM Location: San Diego, CA - Find Me! My Ride: 1998 Honda VFR800FI View my Photo Gallery Posts: 3,582 Thanks: 17 Thanked 124 Times in 87 Posts	I just usually fuel up with 2 (or 3) bars left on the fuel gauge....main reason is I always think of sucking up the debris/gunk sitting in the bottom of the tank (and helping clog my fuel filter faster) if I let it get too low. __________________ ~Jason San Diego Riders click here >>>> San Diego County Area Riders (SCAR) --------------------------------------------------- 1998 VFR800 Two Brothers CarbonFiber Slip-on ZG Double Bubble Oxford Hot grips BMC Air filter Thurn Motorsports Aluminum Chainguard Knurled Aluminum Footpegs

11-11-2008, 11:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
ILVFR75 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Last Online: Yesterday 07:07 AM Location: Illinois - Find Me! My Ride: '06 VFR800 Vtec Pearl White View my Photo Gallery Posts: 164 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I say fill up when you get to "E". Unless you're riding on absolute fumes, I don't think you'll be damaging your fuel pump. Then again, I'm no mechanic, only my opinion. __________________ Cheers, Jeff 2006 Pearl White VFR -- HeliBars, LeoVince.

11-12-2008, 02:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
Molsan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Last Online: Yesterday 03:17 PM Location: Red Deer Alberta - Find Me! My Ride: 2005 VFR 800 ABS RED View my Photo Gallery Posts: 496 Thanks: 25 Thanked 35 Times in 28 Posts	I usually keep 2 bars mainly so i don't run out. this works if i need to rip out and do something not thinking "oh i have to fill up first." As for the fuel pump overheating. You basically want to know if the fuel acts as a heat sink for the heat generated by the pump because fuel has a higher coefficient for transfer of heat and also absorbs more heat energy before heating up. This theory depends on a few things. 1) that the fuel pump generates heat and overheats. I'm Canadian and it snowed this morning...so i have had 0 problems with this. So can't help you. 2) that the fuel pump sits in the fuel. http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/...roup/FUEL_TANK gives a plan of the tank but still not sure if this is true as i have not really looked into my tank to see the pump to be honest. Theory sounds valid that you would want to keep the pump under the level of the fuel if the pump is generating significant amounts of heat and is surrounded by fuel. I do have my doubts that the vfr fuel pump does generate so much heat that a liquid heat sink is needed but i have also never touched it after a long ride. Also keep in mind fuel is passing through the pump and may take some of the heat generated reguardless of tank level. If you hear of VFR fuel pumps failing due to heat i would not hesitate to keep the fuel level up if you determine that it does sit in fuel. __________________ Proud Member-Sixth Gen Millitia-1ST VTEC Battalion

11-11-2008, 09:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
fotodaddy Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Last Online: 12-28-2008 08:47 AM Location: Lagos, Nigeria. My Ride: THEN 1999 CBR600F NOW 2008, VFR ABS View my Photo Gallery Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Does this deafening silence mean that there are no opinions on this subject??

11-11-2008, 11:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
bakchizhai Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Last Online: 12-29-2008 01:42 AM Location: San Francisco, CA - Find Me! My Ride: 1998 Honda VFR800FI Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Correct me if I'm wrong, I always thought gas tanks have the fuel pump at the bottom of the tank anyways. Isn't that necessary to keep fuel delivery considering the fuel level changes? I know for a fact that's true on my car as I've seen it. so it's sucking the mythical gunk/debris at the bottom anyways! boo! Anyways, back to OP. Isn't just filling up whenever you need gas the best? fuel is flowing through the pump regardless of how much gas is in the tank.

11-11-2008, 12:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
fotodaddy Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Last Online: 12-28-2008 08:47 AM Location: Lagos, Nigeria. My Ride: THEN 1999 CBR600F NOW 2008, VFR ABS View my Photo Gallery Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Folks, the idea is that the pump sits in the tank and has fuel all around it to cool it. The more fuel around it the better the heat load the fuel can take away from the pump so better cooling. So with less and less fuel, there is less and less cooling. This is what we are trying to get to the bottom of. If you constantly run on a tank that's almost empty, wont you mess up your pump faster since it doesn't get enough cooling??

11-11-2008, 12:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
supervfr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Last Online: 01-05-2009 05:15 PM Posts: 282 Thanks: 14 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	cycle pumps dont get very hot. nor are my vfr or ninja in the tank. if there is gas in the tank its in the fuel pump cooling it. if there isent ur pushin the bike to the gas station.

11-11-2008, 01:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lgn001 Most Royal Deluxe Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Last Online: Today 05:11 AM Location: Russian River by Ocean, CA My Ride: 1983 CB1100F 2000 SV650 2007 VFR View my Photo Gallery Posts: 1,013 Thanks: 20 Thanked 51 Times in 42 Posts	Well, just as an argument, if you have a full tank of fuel that has been warmed to 45C, it will take a lot longer to cool off in the evening hours that a partially full tank, thereby subjecting your fuel pump to a longer heat cycle. How warm is the fuel at the filling stations? If it was significantly cooler than ambient temperature, and you were riding all day long, there might be some value in filling up at the halfway mark, just to lower the average fuel temperature. But since I have nothing more than a very basic understanding of thermodynamics, this is all pretty much academic on my part. Do you guys really have heat-related fuel pump failures?

11-11-2008, 02:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
fotodaddy Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Last Online: 12-28-2008 08:47 AM Location: Lagos, Nigeria. My Ride: THEN 1999 CBR600F NOW 2008, VFR ABS View my Photo Gallery Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	We have a lot of issue with fuel pumps etc. But I cant say that problems are fuel temperature related though.

11-12-2008, 02:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Spike Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Last Online: Yesterday 09:34 AM Posts: 831 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I ususally run it to below 2 bars, simply cause I don't want to waste the time stopping to fill up more often than I have to. My gut reaction is that the fuel pump was designed to be run on a low tank, otherwise the design of the pump or tank could be changed. But that is a total guess on my part.

11-12-2008, 04:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
RVFR Uber Guru Join Date: Jan 2006 Last Online: Yesterday 11:42 PM Location: Olympia Wa. - Find Me! My Ride: 97 VFR750 View my Photo Gallery Posts: 3,526 Thanks: 26 Thanked 55 Times in 50 Posts	Hmm, I pretty darn sure the pump is not in the tank. so I say fuel it on the relationship to when the next fuel stop could be, nothing worse than to be stranded out in the middle of no where. __________________ Getting you where you belong..... before it's too late. http://media.putfile.com/Gazelle www.loopsies.com Most Fun your Dog can Have

11-12-2008, 05:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
drewl Philosphical Adviser Join Date: Nov 2007 Last Online: Today 01:50 AM Location: Susanville, Ca - Find Me! My Ride: 2000 VFR 800 fi View my Photo Gallery Posts: 2,485 Thanks: 44 Thanked 94 Times in 69 Posts	On the 5th gen at least, the pump is located at the rear bottom end of the tank on a disc bolted to the tank. I run my bike in temps of 20-105 F. Not had to replace the fuel pump in 8 years. __________________ Shop Steward:Chat Hooers Union, Local 151

11-12-2008, 09:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
julianivfr Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Last Online: Yesterday 10:48 PM Location: Alberta My Ride: 2006 VFR800 ABS Pearl White View my Photo Gallery Posts: 92 Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Foto, carry ya okada cruise, jare. Honda no dey spoil. Dis one na original, made in Japan. E no be made in Taiwan. You don reach ya 600 miles? If you never reach, work plenty for you. Instead may you dey twist throttle dey enjoy de VTEC, una dey yarn fuel pump. We suppose suspend you from dis site until you reach 5k miles. Shame on you. LMAO!! On a serious note, though, Arizona is a much, much hotter place than Nigeria is. I have not heard of very many fuel pump complaints. The only reason I can think of for your fuel pumps failing over there will be if your country is selling inferior quality petrol to the public. A stock VFR should pass the quality/emissions standards of almost any country in the world. By the way, Kedu? __________________ 06 Pearl White. ZGDB, Sargent, Quad 4300K HIDs, Frame Sliders, Vista Cruise, Throttle Rocker, Tank Bra, OEM Panniers and Trunk, Bestem Liners, Dual Cardo Scala Q2, Tomtom Rider 2

11-12-2008, 09:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
DANIMAL Lunatic Fringe Join Date: Jul 2006 Last Online: Today 12:17 AM Location: Metairie, LA USA - Find Me! My Ride: 2006 VFR800 pearl white 1986 VFR700F2 pearl white(retired- Gone but not forgotten) View my Photo Gallery Posts: 486 Thanks: 2 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts	on a 6 thgen fuel pump is in the tank. how many fuel pump failures are you guys having out there? __________________ Danimal Drive like Hell you will get there faster. Doh! Mods: Leo Vince CF, PCIII custom Map, BMC air Filter, Chatterbox comms, CW fender Eliminator, ZG Dubl Bubl, Mirror extenders, red LED lights, Sargent Seat, Garmin Etrex GPS, Black Pazzo Shorty Levers, and the list keeps on growing ATGATT LIFETIME Member PROUD MEMBER SIXTH GEN MILITIA 1ST VTEC BATALLION

11-13-2008, 12:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
emptyskull Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Last Online: 12-01-2008 12:13 PM Location: near the bat cave My Ride: 6th gen Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	just add slick 50 gas treatment will help the fuelpump pump faster more hp..

11-13-2008, 08:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
CaptainBart Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Last Online: 12-07-2008 08:24 AM View my Photo Gallery Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I tell ya I am an expert at this....Refuel before you have to push!