Dead bike! :(

[Traveller]

Looks like the electrics' gremlin has finally done a right job on my bike.

Basically the bike's ignition won't turn over. Period.
But let me start from the top.

I bought a '96 VFR750 from Germany. It has 52,000 original km on the clock.
Before buying the bike I had a friend go to the dealer and try it out.
They tried to start it up while I was on the phone; I could hear the ignition turning and turning but the bike would not fire up.

Dealer said it was completely dry of fuel. A short while later the bike did in fact fire up fine and my friend took it for a spin. Bike was completely normal.

We load the bike on the transport platform and 3 days later the bike arrives to me.
The transport guy unloads the bike, fires it up and starts fine.
While it was a little unwilling to fire at first, I put it down to a shagged battery and 3 days of being on the platform.

I did notice that the dash lights were dimming when I turned on the signals, or pressed the brakes lever.

I ride the bike home fine, then next evening I go to start the bike.
Bike would not start. The started turned slowly a couple of times while the dash lights dimmed.
I check the battery and it was an unnamed 10Ah battery which had a date written "Oct-2005".

So I thought I should replace the battery.
I had a Yuasa battery from my 2004 Honda Transalp 650 which I had recharged fully and kept it as a spare.

I put it on the bike and sure enough it fired immediately. I used the bike with no problems for about a month.

Yesterday morning I went to take the bike and I turned the choke all the way to full, and pressed start. The ignition turned a couple of times and then I hear one (1) loud click and the ignition stopped turning.
At the same time I saw that the dash lights were dimmed while pressing the start button.

As I had kept the other battery and I had charged it also I decide to swap batteries.
However, the result was the same: press start button, one loud click is heard from around the r/r area, ignition is NOT turning and dash lights dimming.
* I stress that one click was heard because it was different from the soft clicking sound the ignition is making when the battery is dead.


I put the voltage meter on the battery; it was reading 12.95 volts.
I checked current leaks and it was reading 0.5 mA -well within specs.

Strange thing though; when I kept the voltage meter hooked on the battery and I pressed ignition, a strange shrilling noise was coming from either the battery or the r/r, as long as I was keeping the ignition button pressed.

FYI, the battery at that point was reading 8 volts and dropping.
I tried both batteries to no avail.

Today I went and bought a brand new battery. I put it on thinking that this will solve my problems, but.... nope! :(
Again the ignition is not turning, loud click is heard and lights dimming.

I also checked all fuses (main & aux) and they are all fine.
What is going on here??
I haven't the slightest idea where to start!

The bike is dead and going nowhere fast.. :(
Any suggestions will be highly appreciated!

[Lifttruck]

Sounds like a classic case of Dead battery to me, to start with. Not knowing the maintenance habits of the previouns owner and that the battery in the bike is at least 3 years old (Probably closer to 4 years). I would start with a NEW battery and trouble shoot from there. Given the voltage readings you posted and the lack of the battery to recover, I'm betting dead battery.

Can you jump start the bike from an automotive battery (while the car is not running)? Try jumping the bike and recheck your voltage readings if the results are similar then the problem is deeper than just the battery. If you can jump start it and it starts properly without issues then it's a pretty safe bet the bike battery is toast!

[drewl]

Apparently, lifttruck did not read the whole post-especially the parts about changing and charging batteries.
You mentioned the noise at the r/r. Did you check voltages and connections there?

[Traveller]

Apologies for the long first post, but I wanted to explain to the best of my knowledge.
Regarding the r/r how can I check the voltages (assuming I find out how the h*ck l to remove the bl**dy panels)?

[RVFR]

Oh my, another one..well since I'm a bit late, first read I was going to say to get a new battery, sure enough you did, but. I would be looking at all electrical connections if you haven't. I too would just for the sake of doing it would be jumping it with another battery, just to make doubly sure, it could also be a bad start relay since you are getting noise in that area. but low voltage will cause this too. Then after all said and done once started, get a volt meter on that bad boy to see how it reads. once voltage drops below 12.5v or so it won't really have the amps to turn it over, voltage is one thing it also has to be able to carry an amp load as well, once fired up you should see a spike to say around 14.7v give or so, then slowly working down around 13.8-14.2v if this doesn't happen then yea the RR is not doing it's job. While looking into that make darn sure there is in no way any corrosion of any kind in the RR plug, this is a sneaky one where they will look good but any in there will cause a poor connection and heat build up then wa-la it's toast again just pointing out what I've come across hope this helps.

[RVFR]

To test the RR you just need to get to the battery connections. to get to the RR rear faring needs to come off, pretty straight forward. Ready? #1 obviously seat off #2 in no one order grab handles, side tie down posts, they could be screws too. oh don't lose the little black tabs, those are for the rear seat faring they are shims so you can't over tighten some folks lose. so hang on to em, also check which way they face they go back a certain way, next is the front allan head faring bolts. You will need to pull very so firmly on the faring wings under the tank out, they are snapped in with a rubber grommet there, #3 before you pull it off from the rear make sure you unplug the tail light harness, if you are sitting on the bike it's located under our left butt check. ;) then go back stand behind the taillight and pull and it slowly, you will need to stretch the faring a part a little bit while you give it a slight rotation to clear the rear brake reservoir on the the right and the electrical box on the left, it will just pull back and up with a slight twist and it should come right off. hope that helps, once you see whats what, it's pretty easy

[Traveller]

Many thanks for the detailed posts mate!!!
As we speak the new battery is on the charger and I will have another go tomorrow. If need be I can hook it up to a car battery. Either way we'll know for sure what's what!

Stay tuned folks!

[Phong[scubalong]nephew]

Did you try push starting and throwing it into gear? Just to see if it even starts up that way.

[Sebspeed]

Did you try push starting and throwing it into gear? Just to see if it even starts up that way.

Ever smack yourself in the head to see if it hurts?

Sorry, had to do it...

[Lifttruck]

Apparently, lifttruck did not read the whole post-especially the parts about changing and charging batteries.
You mentioned the noise at the r/r. Did you check voltages and connections there?

Apparantly you can crawl into my head and know what I did, read, or saw Or even my cognitive process! I read it all and think it's much simpler to troubleshoot from one referrence point than a handful. Like a known good source of power, when troubleshooting an electrical problem. Lots of assumptions need to be made regarding the battery maint. of the PO and the owner now and of the borrowed battery condition and where voltage readings were being made and how long it took for the load test to draw the battery down to 8V and so on and so on. Just my professional opinion though! I'll just leave it to the shade tree guys and won't chime in next time. I troubleshoot in logical steps otherwise I don't do well in my business which is mostly repairs.

[NorcalBoy]

Lots of assumptions need to be made regarding the battery maint. of the PO and the owner now and of the borrowed battery condition

(copied from original post):

Today I went and bought a brand new battery. I put it on thinking that this will solve my problems, but.... nope! :(
Again the ignition is not turning, loud click is heard and lights dimming.

Your mechanical skills weren't being questioned..............

[drewl]

I saw he said he tried several batteries, I did not think you saw it. I was not slamming you, lifttruck. I was not bashing.

[RVFR]

WTH I leave and this thread goes south? shessh guys..

[powderrecon]

Is this pnw riders dot com?

hahahahhah.

[powderrecon]

Now for a contribution.

As RVFR said, you need to test the R/R. Its really the first thing that needs to be tested and go from there with any charging issue.

I am going to guestimate that your R/R is faulty. Faulty in that it might only charge if you get the bike up to 5000rpm or over, thus charging a portion of the time the bike is running.

I say this because when my battery has reached that critical stage where it dips below enough power to start the bike because of a fried R/R it clicks exactly like you described. Usually on my bike, the battery is reading just under 11v when its too weak to start the bike.

Either that or you might have some lose terminal connectors, or a faulty ignition key switch.

[Traveller]

With your help and the guys over at VFRD I found the solution yesterday!

Turns out it was a combination of an old and weak battery and of a stuck starter motor.
When I tried to start the bike on Friday it turned a couple of times and then a loud clack was hear. Much like a cog jumping a tooth.

When I put on the new battery it was supplying power. The dash/lights/etc were all working, and I knew the solenoid was working because judging by the dimming of the lights and voltage drop while pressing the starter button the battery was straining.
But still, no engine turning. So what is the next in line if batt, & solenoid are fine? Starter motor.

A forum member suggested to put the bike in gear and push it front and back to try and free the starter motor. I did that and wa-la!! Houston we have ignition!! :) :) :)

Next I checked the r/r and the battery. I let the bike warm up thoroughly and here are the results:

On idle: 14.9v steady
On 5,000 rpm: Dropped down to 14.3v and holding.

After that I went for a long 600K trip with mates with plenty of stopping & starting. Bike run like a champ!

So, problem solved. Still I think I will go get a spare starter motor and will do the gixxer r/r mod just in case! Many thanks guys! I owe you one! :)

[NorcalBoy]

So you're absolutely positive that it wasn't the r/r? Wow, I'm going to have to rethink this, because this forum has led me to believe that the testing and replacement of the r/r fixes every electrical issue on vfr's

Glad to see that you resolved your issue and that you're riding again, score one for the folks at VFRD

[RVFR]

Good going, I saw your thread over there didn't feel it necessary to repeat myself, I saw someone said to put it in gear to bump it. I'm thinking ok it might work never heard of this and was also thinking that the reversing dogs wouldn't let you bump the starter manually, good to know you can and it worked, talk about a rare one. I don't envy the starter replacement, that one is buried. But yes good to know you're on the road, and one for the books.

[Traveller]

Actually to be more precise, bumping the bike didn't work the first time around.

I put it in 2nd gear and holding in the clutch I ran alongside the bike, eventually releasing the clutch. All it did was to block the rear wheel (naturally). Then while in gear I tried reversing the bike; that time I heard an electric motor turning with a weezing sound -like when you turn it by hand.

Second try I put it in 1st gear and did the same procedure, back and forth, and what do you know; problem solved!

[RVFR]

Crazy yea one needs to put it in 3rd for a good bump start. but never heard of anyone doing it backwards. Nice, that had to be something to witness, also makes some sense too, but man that's a crazy one, just good to hear it worked out for the better.