Front Wheel Bearing Options

[soundmaster31]

So at least one of my front wheel bearings is shot. So I'm going to replace both as a set like a good little boy.

So far these are the options I've heard from local dealers:


OEM Honda: $15-20 PER Bearing and at least $4 for each seal. Lowest price I've found including shipping is around $49 total MINIMUM. My local dealers are thieves on OEM parts with prices varying by as much as $5 on the same bearing. Lame.


All-Balls Kit: $16.35 for a full wheel set and seals (2- bearings, 2-seals) Not sure where these are made.


RB Tech: $5 each bearing. Dual-wall/sealed design though. The Mythical Cheap Chinese Bearing!!! dun dun dun!


So what are the thoughts? RB Tech are in stock right now...everything else MUST be ordered. Patience a virtue? or Are OEM bearings a rip off?


If I order the bearings today I should have them by the end of the week...so it's not that long of a wait. I'm more concerned about the money issue. 60% less for RB tech is pretty enticing.


I've worked in an automotive machine shop/factory before and have a friend that is a quality control engineer for a leading automotive supplier and have discussed the varying degrees of quality control and exact engineering tolerances between their factories in the USA, Mexico, and China. While Chinese companies in general are behind on quality control and struggle to even come close in engineering tolerances, I wonder how bad the bearings are these days? Do they justify spending 3 times as much money on OEM bearings?


So let's hear it. I'm sure everyone will flame the Chinese bearings but I'm wondering if any one has any real world or lab data showing average lifetime or expected lifetime of different bearing brands.

[soundmaster31]

was looking around the mythical chinese bearing company's website and found this little info sheet... the ones that are available for the bike are the RB TECH premium bearings...

http://www.rbibearing.com/brochures/...comparison.pdf


I was also reading under the benefits section on the All Balls Bearing website(LINK) that their bearings use the "High performance Chevron SRI-II grease features special rust inhibitors for the most demanding applications." and RBI states Chevron SRI-2 (-20° to +350°F) is used in their STANDARD bearings. RBI(RB TECH) uses a Wide temperature range Mobil Polyrex EM2 (-40° to +350°F) in their Premium Bearings. Just a little info I found.


Anyone know who makes the Honda OEM bearings?

[TOE CUTTER]

I have bad and nothing but bad things to say about aftermarket bearings and on a bike I gladly cough up the dough for OEM.Honda did a study on bearing failure due to lack of grease in new bearings and specify an amount in their bearings to increase life.

[soundmaster31]

I have bad and nothing but bad things to say about aftermarket bearings and on a bike I gladly cough up the dough for OEM.Honda did a study on bearing failure due to lack of grease in new bearings and specify an amount in their bearings to increase life.

Any links to a published study? If it's over ten years old it's worthless.

[Maggot]

This might be a dumb question but I will ask anyway. Has anyone ever gone to an Industrial Bearing Supply House with bearings in hand and asked to have these bearing matched. Places like Berry Bearing, Kaman Bearing etc. These places usually stock many sizes and all top quality US, German, Swiss bearings for industrial use. Manufacturers and Machine Shops rely on these places to keep their factories running. I would bet these places would have better bearings and a better price than OEM. Or is industrial too different than automotive?

I would bet bearings used in a high speed CNC lathe would be over qualified for use in motorcycle wheels.

[TOE CUTTER]

I have in the past used bearing supply places to get bearings and have learned to not do it with motorcycle wheels.I have had premature failures every time.

[squirrelman]

I'm as cheap as they get, and when i replaced front wheel bearings on my Hawk over the winter i went with OEM from Honda.

A local industrial bearing supply company can get the same Japan-made "KOYO" or "NTN " bearings as OEM but several $$ cheaper....or go to Service/Ron Ayers, etc. instead of your dealer. Premature failures are likely directly related to country of origin.


What would be of interest is for some brave experimenter to install one OEM and one Allballs Chinese bearing in front wheel and check durability/wear under real conditions !

What's wrong with Allballs is not the grease or lack of it but the low quality metallurgy typical of Chinese products.

As previously stated and to the befuddlement of some : Quality bearings are made in Japan, Germany, or the USA ONLY !!

[betarace]

BOOYAH!

another bearing thread!! I am glad that nobody asks about cheap chinese oil or tires!!

[IA-Mike]

I can walk into a bearing supply house and walk out with a pair of front wheel bearings made by Timken for $40. Did last summer for my son's Blackbird. If Honda bearings are so good why did his rear ones go out at 15kmi.? I've now replaced both the front and back ones on his bike.
Used a piece of pvc pipe to drive them in after letting them sleep in the freezer overnight.

[soundmaster31]

Does anybody have any reports or data to support your opinions besides hearsay and broad comments on overall Chinese products????

Squirrelman - thanks for pointing out the OEM source of the bearings. Are you saying that the chemical make up of the metals used in the bearings are to blame for premature failures? Lack of grease is a definite cause...no grease and increased friction will kill a bearing.


For the rest of you...what kind of mileage/time period are we talking when you say Chinese bearings have failed "prematurely"?

Saying that USA, Germany, and Japan only make quality components is the biggest crock these days. A quality product can be made anywhere if the proper resources are devoted to it.

(If any of you have recently flown on a short regional jet flight, you probably have flown on an airplane made in Brazil and wouldn't have even known it. Look up "Embraer ERJ-145"...hell they are even made in China now, but I believe those are for the Asian market only.)

In recent years with companies outsourcing to China for the cheaper labor, they don't need to skimp on the quality materials used in their product to stay competitive. China has come a long way in the past 10-15 years from it once was.

-end rant.


Any reports with detailed evidence?!?!?!?

[betarace]

all balls work for me... every time

[300shooter]

No real data here, I just like flamin' Chinese crap !!

[squirrelman]

all balls work for me... every time

OH, yeah......they fit into the wheel OK...... but the question, of course, is how long do they last compared to OEM ???

The OEM bearings i replaced over the winter had 22,000 miles; one was still fine, the other had just-detectable wear and felt notchy.

The point i'm making or attempting to is: "Who here is running Chinese-made tyres on their VFR??" See?? It's crap, that's why !!

[betarace]

my brain hurts with this sh1t

[SLOVFR]

I run nothing but Chinese All balls in my front wheel bearings and steering stem. Call me crazy but I got to eat a few meals out and put the rest towards track days - BOOYA - NO failures !!

[soundmaster31]

So I ended up going with the RB Tech bearings. We'll see how well they handle. I still need to pick up a new seal though...the one on the failed bearing is pretty shot. I stopped by the shop and after talking to one of the guys there that uses the bearings on his drag bike without a single failure yet Convinced me to hand over the 10 bucks for a set.

Oh, and when I mean I had a failure...I HAD A FAILURE! You never want your bearings to look like this. Some sort of solvent must have worked it's way behind the seal because there wasn't any grease between the races. The bearing failed so catastrophically that it blew the seal off.



My head bearing is shot too... big ol' divit in the middle. I'll replace it this summer when I rebuild the forks with new springs.

[squirrelman]

RB Tech= Chinese

No doubt you saved a few dollars, but (compared with OEM) how much sooner will they wear out??

[betarace]

I knew it!

[soundmaster31]

RB Tech= Chinese

No doubt you saved a few dollars, but (compared with OEM) how much sooner will they wear out??

I'm pretty sure we had it straightened out in the first post that RB Tech was a Chinese brand.

How long will they last? We shall see. At the least, I'll have some solid data to provide others with. If they fail prematurely they fail prematurely...it's not like it's time consuming or hard to change them. What burns me, is that NO ONE has hard facts on them and everyone assumes they wear out sooner. Just "they fail prematurely". How the hell do I even know you guys installed them correctly. One slip and a hit on the inner race and you f***ed the bearing from the get go.


Paying 200% more for OEM...NO THANKS.

[soundmaster31]

Squirrelman - have you ever even used a Chinese manufactured ball bearing or are you full of nothing but hot air and hearsay?

[betarace]

I knew it!

[hondajt]

I know a bunch of guys that run All Balls and swear by them. Thats good enough for me. A bearing is too important to cheap out on.

But thats my personal thoughts....

[mello dude]

I'm pretty sure we had it straightened out in the first post that RB Tech was a Chinese brand.

How long will they last? We shall see. At the least, I'll have some solid data to provide others with. If they fail prematurely they fail prematurely...it's not like it's time consuming or hard to change them. What burns me, is that NO ONE has hard facts on them and everyone assumes they wear out sooner. Just "they fail prematurely". How the hell do I even know you guys installed them correctly. One slip and a hit on the inner race and you f***ed the bearing from the get go.


Paying 200% more for OEM...NO THANKS.

Coming from the automotive engineering and manufacturing arena... Just because something is made in China, doesnt neccessarilly mean its bad. It depends more on the underlying company that put the product over there in the first place. If they started a plant over there and put the quality control in place with the proper quality materials, you will get a quality product. Now then on the other side of the fence, if the company just subs the product out to a no name company and allows the Chinese company to go on its own to set up the processes to produce the product, then definately, the US company is gambling on the quality of the product that it will buy to sell to US customers.

So its not automatic that a Chinese product is bad. It just depends...

Sorry for the long winded fodder.....

MD

[soundmaster31]

So its not automatic that a Chinese product is bad. It just depends...

Exactly. RB Tech built a new factory in the 90's that's ISO9001 certified iirc.

[Lgn001]

I was going to type out a long response, but this is easier;

Barden Literature Page

Look under the "Tutorials" section. "Bearing In Mind" and "Why Bearings Fail" are worth reading.

Essentially, an inexpensive ball bearing is inexpensive for a reason. The dimensions of a bearing might be close enough for it to fit, but the world of ball bearings has a lot of "gotcha's". Some are obvious, some are not.

If I was repairing a hub on a garden tractor, I would pick inexpensive. On a high-speed high-load two wheeled vehicle where things can go terribly wrong if one wheel bearing fails, I'd go for the Honda part, simply because Honda has already determined what ABEC class of bearing and what type of grease is suitable to the application.

[SLOVFR]

TOO much worrying and not enough riding going on around here.

[soundmaster31]

I was going to type out a long response, but this is easier;

Barden Literature Page

Look under the "Tutorials" section. "Bearing In Mind" and "Why Bearings Fail" are worth reading.

Essentially, an inexpensive ball bearing is inexpensive for a reason. The dimensions of a bearing might be close enough for it to fit, but the world of ball bearings has a lot of "gotcha's". Some are obvious, some are not.

If I was repairing a hub on a garden tractor, I would pick inexpensive. On a high-speed high-load two wheeled vehicle where things can go terribly wrong if one wheel bearing fails, I'd go for the Honda part, simply because Honda has already determined what ABEC class of bearing and what type of grease is suitable to the application.

quality post

[soundmaster31]

Anybody know what the ABEC rating is on the OEM bearings? If it's higher than aftermarket bearings that may explain your premature failure ideas. Even then, it's a game of tolerances and not necessarily metallurgy in chemical make up sense.

[btay67]

I've found this thread interesting so far. It may be alot like a "best oil filter" thread in some sense. I think it is important to question the quality of a product but there should be some kind of data to back things up. I commend soundmaster31 for questioning the "norm" and easy answer. It would be interesting to get some data on how many miles people have ridden without a failure for some of the different bearing brands. I would think there are also some bearings that out perform the "stock" honda bearings as well.

The automotive world has stock OEM bearings, replacement (OEM equivalent) aftermarket bearings and even High Performance upgraded bearings (which sometimes are the same or cheaper than stock OEM bearings).

Does anyone out there have aftermarket bearings installed? If so, what brand and how well have they held up (how many miles)? I bought my vfr used but for those of you that bought a new vfr, how many miles have you ridden with no failure? Just a thought of how to get some real world data....

[eddie cap]

This is not an answer,but if we can find it them it may help. A few months ago I was reading an article in a motorcycle magazine about someone setting a national speed record on a new Kawasaki zx-250. The article talked a little about high speed
wheel bearing drag and how they replaced the OEM bearings with some special bearings that significantly reduced drag. I dont know what the longevity of these special bearings are but possibly it could lead to something interesting. eddie