160* Thermostat?

[CandyRedRC46]

just went with an oem suzuki thermostat (part # 17670-32C01). seems that suzuki runs 170* thermostats with most of their bikes.

now i just have to hope for 2 things...
1 that it actually fits inside of the housing.
2 that it will allow the engine to cool down enough for the fan to kick off.

[NorcalBoy]

im glad you are keeping such an open mind to all of this. because the way you and squirl are talking, it sounds like you believe that you were mr.honda himself...

find a fan switch that comes alive at 200* instead of 225* and i will gladly install it and toss the 178* in the trash. with the 178* fan switch being the only switch i have found alvaliable so far, this is where i am going to start my trial and error.

unlike you, i am not saying that any of this is matter of fact, i am just trying to see what works best.

.

In the context of this conversation, I might just be Mr. Honda. Have you tried NOS as coolant yet?

[Action]

Jon and CandyRed,
Slightly off topic, but...... Have either of you given any thought to replacing your fan with a VTR1000 fan. For anyone who hasn't looked, the VFR fan pulls air in past the rad. This is fine at a stop or very low speeds. The problem starts to occur at speeds from 10mph up to around 40mph, where the fan is trying to suck air in while the forward motion of the bike is trying to blow air in the other direction. The VTR1000 fan blows air out past the rad so as you start moving the bike cools quicker. Its a stock Honda part and a bolt on replacement. I have not tried yet because they were on back order from everyone else trying this mod.



Action

[CandyRedRC46]

Jon and CandyRed,
Slightly off topic, but...... Have either of you given any thought to replacing your fan with a VTR1000 fan. For anyone who hasn't looked, the VFR fan pulls air in past the rad. This is fine at a stop or very low speeds. The problem starts to occur at speeds from 10mph up to around 40mph, where the fan is trying to suck air in while the forward motion of the bike is trying to blow air in the other direction. The VTR1000 fan blows air out past the rad so as you start moving the bike cools quicker. Its a stock Honda part and a bolt on replacement. I have not tried yet because they were on back order from everyone else trying this mod.



Action

i did a lot of research on the fan blade options. rc51, vtr1000, multiple years etc... im thinking the best route would be to take the stock blade off the motor assembly, put it back on reversed(backwards) and then reverse the polarity (similar to just turning the whole fan assembly backwards, but without having to deal with the mounting). that way it wouldn't lose any efficiency or get any louder. im going to try that out soon, its on my to do list. i just have to get the thermostat and switch sorted out first.

[CandyRedRC46]

In the context of this conversation, I might just be Mr. Honda. Have you tried NOS as coolant yet?

that's hilarious. you should put that in the humor thread.

[Rubo]

Guys this may be relevant!!
I read from a VFR rider that replacing conventional oil filter with scott performance one will bring down the temp 10degrees.That's a huge improvement without doing any mods.
The reason is Scott filter has fins and flows lot more oil per minute and cools it.It is pricey 120-135

I think it will pay itself over the yrs since you can wash and reinstall.

[mello dude]

i did a lot of research on the fan blade options. rc51, vtr1000, multiple years etc... im thinking the best route would be to take the stock blade off the motor assembly, put it back on reversed(backwards) and then reverse the polarity (similar to just turning the whole fan assembly backwards, but without having to deal with the mounting). that way it wouldn't lose any efficiency or get any louder. im going to try that out soon, its on my to do list. i just have to get the thermostat and switch sorted out first.

Dude - the VTR fan is a drop in and you dont have to mess with any of the wiring.

MD

[mello dude]

Something I want to understand - just what are you after?

MD

[CandyRedRC46]

it is a drop in, but i'm pretty sure the reason that it flows backwards is because it was meant to spin in the opposite direction. when you spin a fan in the opposite direction it will lose some efficiency and be a little louder. i think i would rather just be able to switch it off when i know im going to be going over 40 for a while.
basically what we're after is trying to cool the bike down a little. bringing it down from the 225 plus area to somewhere in between 170 and 190...

[mello dude]

it is a drop in, but i'm pretty sure the reason that it flows backwards is because it was meant to spin in the opposite direction. when you spin a fan in the opposite direction it will lose some efficiency and be a little louder. i think i would rather just be able to switch it off when i know im going to be going over 40 for a while.
basically what we're after is trying to cool the bike down a little. bringing it down from the 225 plus area to somewhere in between 170 and 190...

Dude - here a whole thread on the fan swap....
Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr? - VFRD

MD

[hondajt]

interesting ideas. If I had ore free time, I would contribute. But I am interested in knowing whats going on.

[BASFjon]

... this is where i am going to start my trial and error.

unlike you, i am not saying that any of this is matter of fact, i am just trying to see what works best.

.

You're alright man, that's how great things get made anymore!! Glad to see someone here making progress into fixing these Honda Quirks.

Action, thanks for the tip on the VTR Fan.

[BASFjon]

Dude - here a whole thread on the fan swap....
Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr? - VFRD

MD

Great Thread... thanks for finding that!!!

You know reading this makes me wonder also, that if the main radiator that gets the direct flow is on the side under the Radiator Cap...then how the hell come the Temp Sensor in on the other radiator??? I mean if the engine rpm that drives the pump is slow at low speeds, and the flow direction splits a clear path with a second radiator, that is after coming out of the first, why then put the temp sensor in the slowest flowing path of the cooling system??? That just doesn't make sense to me! Is anyone else making sense of this, or am I missing something!

Also, from what I gather on that thread, it is saying reversing the leads on the radiator fan drops the temps quicker, and the VTR sister-bike to our VFR runs a backwards set of fan blades that cools quicker then ours...so the polarity doesn't have to be changed. I know some fans can't be ran both directions, some aftermarkets are designed for it - but I am wondering if the longevity is there with the OEM's. Still want to bite on that Aftermarket Adjustable Potentiometer Fan-stat and run it inline with the Upper Feed line to the Main Radiator or tap the main radiator as air might be an issue in the upper tube.

[CandyRedRC46]

Dude - here a whole thread on the fan swap....
Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr? - VFRD

MD

"Hi guys,I'm new to this forum and just about to take delivery of an 07 VFR, I've previosly had an 02 and a 99 model, and they all ran stinking hot in traffic, this is a great mod, and so simple.
I currently have an 06 vtr1000 and the fan runs in the "proper"" direction, and it doesnt cook your legs either.
I honestly think Honda stuffed up with the VFR fan design, trying to force the air against the natural airflow.
Maybe I should take off the vtr fan before I trade it LOL.
On my 02 VFR, the thermostat stuffed up and stayed open, making the motor run too cool. Is this fixed on the later models?" (from the vfrdiscussion board)

looks like those blades are actually designed to turn in that direction. huh... deffientely looks a lot more simple than reversing polarity and the blade itself(plus modifying it to fit backwards). i looked into this a while back, but just figured that all side mout radiator hondas were puller fans and that the vtr's motors just spun in the opposite direction.

[Derek Ashley]

The T-Stat closes off the rest of the system so the motor can bleed heat into the surrounding coolant jacket - helps the motor warm up to operating temps and keeps it warm enough in colder weather. Has to be there. If it's removed it will always run cold, and that's worse then hot!

If you set the T-Stat too low, the higher heat is never given a long enough dwell time to run through the radiator to cool off - because the t-stat is wide open and flowing quickly. From what I am understanding, there is a sweet spot between the t-stat and thermoswitch, and I imagine it can only be found from trial and error.

Hiya All,

I'm just reading this thread, so there may be more, but let's not forget that CandyRedRC46 lives in Key West. I'm in the Tampa Bay area, so I know we both know HOT!

I don't mind the heat, but I can tell you that with that engine pumping out heat, the FULL Florida sun on you in July on blacktop at high noon...in riding gear...oh my!

Here's my two pennies: I used to have some old hot rods "back in the day". One was a 73 Chevelle SS with a 454. I used to pull out the thermostat and replace it with a big washer drilled with a flow restriction hole to balance out the coolant flow. Some resistance would keep enough flow back up to let the coolant get some heat in it. Taking out the thermostat completely really only works in sustained high RPM's and a high heat application. But I'm going on REALLY old information.

I wish I could remember the size of the hole in the big "washer", but I cannot. And one of these is about a few bucks...but maybe that's an really old price.

Maybe more soon

[eddie cap]

OK everyone, Here is what I propose,since we know how the cooling system flows,or at least we think we do, then what about putting some kind of flow restrictor in the hose before the tee fitting on the primary side radiator. The effect of doing this will force more coolant to go through the left side or secondary radiator. I believe the outcome of this modification would be somewhat of a more efficient cooling system where both radiators will be doing about the same amount of work. For prototype use ,I believe a one inch length of wooden dowel could be used. As a starting point one
could drill a hole in the dowel simulating a 10% reduction in the hose I.D ,trial and error would have to be used from there. Possibly you may have to go to a 50% reduction in hose ID before we get the desired effect. Anyway not sure if my suggestion has any merit,go easy on me guys ,I cry easy!!! eddie

[eddie cap]

As far as the fan and motor deal,Honda makes a fan blade that flows in the reverse direction of the stock VFR fan blade. You dont have to reverse the polarity or flip the blade over. I apologize if this was in the thread that Mollo Dude suggested. eddie

[hondajt]

Are we trying to lower oil temps or cooling temps?

[Derek Ashley]

OK everyone, Here is what I propose,since we know how the cooling system flows,or at least we think we do, then what about putting some kind of flow restrictor in the hose before the tee fitting on the primary side radiator. The effect of doing this will force more coolant to go through the left side or secondary radiator. I believe the outcome of this modification would be somewhat of a more efficient cooling system where both radiators will be doing about the same amount of work. For prototype use ,I believe a one inch length of wooden dowel could be used. As a starting point one
could drill a hole in the dowel simulating a 10% reduction in the hose I.D ,trial and error would have to be used from there. Possibly you may have to go to a 50% reduction in hose ID before we get the desired effect. Anyway not sure if my suggestion has any merit,go easy on me guys ,I cry easy!!! eddie

Man, I love this idea! I was thinking to myself what to do to get more coolant through the other radiator, and this may do it. Bravo!

[CandyRedRC46]

Ok I've got a couple things on my mind right now.
#1 Is a variable fan switch that Jon was talking about.
a. Based on the circumstances I could raise or lower the fan engagement point.
1. Riding around town like I am 99% of the time I could set it low.
2. When I do actually get on the highway, I could bump it a few degrees as the fan is obviously pointless above 40 mph.
#2 I could just leave the 178 switch in during the hotter months of the year, and put the stocker back in for those few cooler months.
a. Changing out the coolant twice a year would be good preventative maintenance and I'm sure the bike would appreciate it too...

P.S. as a report on the 178 switch. The bike, as expected, warms up exactly the same to around 174. At that point, give or a take a degree, the fan kicks on. It will more or less sit there for eternity, as the fan wants to lower the temperature and the thermostat wants to raise it. I'm not sure to what degree(most have said 180 I think squirrel said 190), anyways the fan will not ever shut off after it has engaged unless the bike is turned off for a few minutes. Riding leisurely, it will stay in the 180 area, but as the pace heats up or you get in sweltering stop and go traffic it will very slowly creep up. After over thirty minutes of stop and go down town driving ,holding first gear to 5 or 6 grand between stop lights, I saw a maximum of 203*. I could not break that max. This is a much a better improvement over 228* plus that i was seeing .
now I do know that this mod is not for everyone, but, I believe it is very beneficial to get a head start on the heat build up in climates such as mine. As it would seem logical to set up your bike to run the best during the most demanding of times. I would rather have my bike run at 180 during easy riding and 205 at the track then 220 during easy riding and 240 at the track.
I am definitely, by no means, finished. I still want to fine tune everything. Try out that 170* thermostat, VTR1000 fan, and see if I can get a hold of a variable fan switch etc. I think I'm off to a good start.

[mello dude]

OK everyone, Here is what I propose,since we know how the cooling system flows,or at least we think we do, then what about putting some kind of flow restrictor in the hose before the tee fitting on the primary side radiator. The effect of doing this will force more coolant to go through the left side or secondary radiator. I believe the outcome of this modification would be somewhat of a more efficient cooling system where both radiators will be doing about the same amount of work. For prototype use ,I believe a one inch length of wooden dowel could be used. As a starting point one
could drill a hole in the dowel simulating a 10% reduction in the hose I.D ,trial and error would have to be used from there. Possibly you may have to go to a 50% reduction in hose ID before we get the desired effect. Anyway not sure if my suggestion has any merit,go easy on me guys ,I cry easy!!! eddie

I am looking at the same diagram you guys are and -- I dont know if I agree that that the left radiator is flowing more coolant than the fan side radiator. I look at it as that the radiators are in paralell flowing near equal amounts of fluid. If the 2 radiators were side by side and connected by a short hose on the top, and a Y hose out the bottom it would have the same effect as the current plumbing. My two cents for the day. - So, I'm not wild about blocking flow of ether radiator.

- I do like the idea of a variable fan switch.

- A goofy question for the florida guys - why dont you try Engine Ice?

MD

[Action]

I dont know if I agree that that the left radiator is flowing more coolant than the fan side radiator.

MD

Agree 100%. I would be very surprised if restricting flow in a system that already runs hot turns out to work well. I would bet that max heat transference is already occurring and reducing flow is only going to reduce the ability to shed heat.

Action

[Derek Ashley]

- A goofy question for the florida guys - why dont you try Engine Ice?

MD

Checking in From Sunny F-L-A ...

I just fully flushed out my 2000 VFR with Distilled H20 and vinegar and put in almost two jugs of Engine Ice. I took my bike from St Pete to Naples yesterday and back and was running at around 180 or so on both legs of the trip. The Air temp was around 90 or so. My normal speed was around 85 to 110, and I hit 135mph in a spot down and 152mph somewhere in Wiumama (the Natives named this place).

When I pulled over for a fuel/stretch stop the temp went to 220. So far, the jury is still out on Engine ICE. Is it worth the 40 clams...dunno? I'm gonna take a ride down the beach this Sunday as I have standard from last week's ride. I average around 35mph and the temp hit 225 on that day - and stayed. Hot city!

The long, low and slow test will really bear this out.

However, there is one short seemingly positive note about the Engine Ice and that's the temp comes down a bit faster at idle. Still evaluating :)

As far as the coolant flow restriction to one radiator or the other, I was under the impression that the fan side rad got less flow than the other one. If they both get the same flow (dunno?), then nothing will make a difference. I think the thought was born from the deduction that only one radiator has the fan.

Additionally, I'm hoping the engineers at Honda designed this thing to take a variety of climates and conditions. Of course, down here, it's a butt-load hotter for longer than in other places. I also think that if sustained higher temps are not destructive to the engine and all of the components, then it's a matter of looking for some peace of mind.

I do agree with CandyRedRC that these bikes get hot...mine does too. I don''t care for it at all. I think we both my be at the higher end of the operating conditions, and it may be necessary to intervene with a realistic solution.

I for one like the idea of a low temp fan switch. I also like the idea of pulling a greater volume of air thru the radiator.

There may be a couple of other "solutions".

1. What about more efficient radiators? Install ones that have more sink area
2. Increase the cooling fluid capacity of the system - larger diameter hoses is a way (if possible)
3. How about installing a tertiary (really a secondary) radiator in some available space down there by the Y fitting and in place of those hoses? (There may even be some viable room somewhere in the vicinity of the space below the oil cooler and in front of the black plastic that connects both lower fairing under the cylinder head.)

I say build on that land!!! CandRed? Check in with this?

NB I "borrowed" a photo from reg71's Gen V Oil Change thread, so that's his bike (he took no part in the evaluation of this plan )

[mello dude]

Are we trying to lower oil temps or cooling temps?

Both?

MD

[mello dude]

While we're on hot stuff - I have read that dropping oil temps some will help. I have read about a couple guys on VFRD that went to a Scotts Performance oil filter and that dropped the temps too. The fillter is finned so it cools the oil before the oil runs to the bearings/cams/etc. Anybody else here running it?

Scotts Performance Products

MD

[eddie cap]

I have a Scotts on my Harley, seems to help keep the oil pressure a little higher at idle,that would/should mean the oil is staying cooler or the oil flows a bit better at lower engine speeds. I also have one for the VFR but I have not put it on the bike yet!
I will let you know if it changes any important charisterics of the lube system eddie

[mello dude]

I have a Scotts on my Harley, seems to help keep the oil pressure a little higher at idle,that would/should mean the oil is staying cooler or the oil flows a bit better at lower engine speeds. I also have one for the VFR but I have not put it on the bike yet!
I will let you know if it changes any important charisterics of the lube system eddie

Cool! I have been interested in that one for a while.

MD

[BASFjon]

I look at it as that the radiators are in paralell flowing near equal amounts of fluid.

I see it too now, thanks. The hose from the T-stat that flows to the radiators comes through the top of the right radiator, and then just a matter of inches off that, there is an outlet pipe that branches to the left radiator. The resistance of flow on that right radiator is after the tube that branches to the left one, so there should be equal pressure exerted/shared between the two radiators. So the temp readings should be accurate.

About the replacement blade, I did some research on ordering one.
2005 VTR Fan Blade P/N 67899-001
$34.02
According to the Link "Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr?, Sick of Honda's short sighted fan design", the fan is P/N 19020-MBB-003. When looked up in Bike Bandit, it displayed years 1988-2005 for Honda VTR1000, and gave a cross-referenced P/N of 67899-001. Here's the Link to Order it. Cost of $34.02 less shipping.

To illustrate how a reverse fan blade works, waft your hand across your face at a 45 degree angle one way, then rotate your hand 90 degrees the other way. One way will blow towards you, the other will blow away.

About the Oil Temps. I still think hot oil could be the cause of the engine running a bit off in my case. Personally I'm uncertain of assuming that just because your motor is running 200-225 degrees prolonged, that the Motor oil is going to follow the same cooling patterns as the coolant. That's where that came from - The Oil Temps bit I mentioned. I've seen people use a Thermometer Style Oil Cap on Harley's to keep an eye on the Oil Temps - I might do this just because it's just plug and leave, and you can glance down to read it. Not a permanent thing - just something to use and check out the problem when the temps hit high.

[mello dude]

About the Oil Temps. I still think hot oil could be the cause of the engine running a bit off in my case. Personally I'm uncertain of assuming that just because your motor is running 200-225 degrees prolonged, that the Motor oil is going to follow the same cooling patterns as the coolant. That's where that came from - The Oil Temps bit I mentioned. I've seen people use a Thermometer Style Oil Cap on Harley's to keep an eye on the Oil Temps - I might do this just because it's just plug and leave, and you can glance down to read it. Not a permanent thing - just something to use and check out the problem when the temps hit high.

Thats something I have been interested too. In digging into the vfr800 oil system, It actually has 2 oil pumps and circuits. One goes to the oil cooler up front and then come back and lubes the tranny, then drains to the sump, and then the 2nd goes from the sump to the oil filter and then to the bearings/cams/etc. and then to the sump. So it seems an optimum spot for a oil temp gage would be at the oil filter outlet side. I have been digging around and found add on blocks for mounting a sensor there, but I have yet to find any gage that perks my interest. I think just a simple digital read out, maybe 3/8" or 1/2" number in some LED readout would be cool. I'd mount to the top triple. ---- Or maybe just something temporary to get an idea of water temps vs oil temps and go from there.

MD

[CandyRedRC46]

mellodude i flushed the system twice with distilled water, and then filled it up with distilled water and engine ice when i did the fan switch.
i do like the idea of the scotts filter. mainly for it's ability to trap contaminent particles almost the size of blood cells and its reusability.
but, with its proximity to the front two header primaries, i think it would be in an area saturated with heat and wouldnt be able to help lower oil temp that much.