stripped screw on brake reservoir

[akabdog]

I've got a 4th gen that I love, I've had it for a few years now.
Today I decided I'd add some brake fluid but before I even noticed screw started stripping. I tried a few different types of bits but no matter the shape it wont budge.

Whats the easiest way to combat this? If it wasn't recessed I could create some groves using a hacksaw, but as it stands on low on ideas. I've never drilled out a stripped screw so I'm not sure what's involved or what tools to use.

Thanks!

[Cundalini]

There is a tool that is called an easy out ( screw extractor ). I never used it on a bike, but thats what we used on cars when I was an automechanic. Basiclly it will drill into the stripped screw and then when you unscrew it, it will take the screw out with it. And of course, you will have to replace the screw, as well as be carefull not to get any of the mess into your reservoir ( the metal shavings ).

Your local kragen, autozone or equivalent should carry something like this.

I hope maybe one of the more experianced bike wrenches on here have an eaiser solution for ya.

[Metallican525]

+1 easyout, however. When removing broken fasteners, with an easyout, you first need to drill a pilot hole in said fastner so that you can jam the tool in it. Most people don't think about this and just use a regular drill bit to do the job. If you can get a "left handed" drill bit to do the job it may be all you need, frequently (especially with smaller fastners like this one) the screw will back itself out while you're drilling the pilot hole with a left handed bit. Where, conversley, with a normal or "right handed bit" you may actually further tighten the fastner making your extraction job harder.

[punisher12b]

u could use a dremmel with a tiny cutting wheel to do the same..

[Meatloaf]

I think the dremel would cause problems here as the screw is recessed. if you can get a dremel with some kind really small cutter then you could either cut a slot in it for a flathead screwdriver or possible grind the whole head of the screw off. with the head of it ground off you should just be able to remove the other screw and the cap will slide off. you could then use some pliers or vice grips on the shank of the screw to unscrew it.

I would give the easy out a shot FIRST... and it that doesn't work then move on to the dremel.

[diVeFR]

++1 on the easy out....go to any auto parts dealer and ask for an easyout... they will know...if you can bring the other screw, they will help you and plus they can guide you to getting a new screw for the cap..

[horseiron1]

Sears sells this and it works perfect. They are used just like drill bits only in reverse. I hope this helps.

[Badbilly]

What is Mr.Sears calling these puppies? They look like something that would be a great addition to anyone's toolbox.


EZOut or other type bit on a small phillips screw like that IMO the whole assembly should be removed from the bike and the screw removed with the bit on a drill press.

[Rainbow7]

I've got a 4th gen that I love, I've had it for a few years now.
Today I decided I'd add some brake fluid but before I even noticed screw started stripping. I tried a few different types of bits but no matter the shape it wont budge.

I hope you've learned a valuable lesson here: make sure you have the right type and right sized screwdriver.

[akabdog]

Thanks for all the replies, when I get time I'll head over to sears and pick up a drill and some easy out option. On the website they also have GRABIT and their version of grabit "Deck-Out Screw and Bolt Removers".
Since they have several kits for this, I'll have to bring in the non-stripped screw for reference and see which bit is going to be the best size.
If that doesn't work, I'll have to buy a dremel and remove the edges of the screw head and pull the lid off. I'll leave this as a last resort.

Thanks again for all the info, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Badbilly]

Going by the pic, your bike is put away in a dry environment. The cover screws for the clutch and brake resevoirs are coated and are not all that hard. ie easy to strip if corrosions has set in. There is still "wiggle room" for water to get into the screw holes. It might be a good idea to just dump the OEM screws for stainless when your extraction is finished.

Also, maybe check the maintenance suggestions for your particular bike and see if the hydraulic fluids in both systems need replacing.

[GreyVF750F]

That screw is really to small for an easy out or that Sears thing. Most likely it will act like a normal drill. Several choices. Loctite has a product called "Freeze & Release". It freezes stuck bolts/screws to -45 degrees which cracks the threads loose on rusted or stuck fasteners. Your best bet is to shock the threads. Take a steel, in your case, Phillips head bit, put it in the screw and rap quickly with a hammer. This will shock the threads, break the surface tension. Then the bit might be able to be used because it will embed into the screw some what so you can back it out. Also using a sharp pointed center punch on the flat surface of the screw, angle it in the direct to unscreww also works good.

[Badbilly]

That screw is really to small for an easy out or that Sears thing. Most likely it will act like a normal drill. Several choices. Loctite has a product called "Freeze & Release". It freezes stuck bolts/screws to -45 degrees which cracks the threads loose on rusted or stuck fasteners. Your best bet is to shock the threads. Take a steel, in your case, Phillips head bit, put it in the screw and rap quickly with a hammer. This will shock the threads, break the surface tension. Then the bit might be able to be used because it will embed into the screw some what so you can back it out. Also using a sharp pointed center punch on the flat surface of the screw, angle it in the direct to unscreww also works good.

If there was no chance of breaking the metal reservior then an impact driver would do a better job IMO. Crack that resevior if its full of fluid and there goes paint, plastic, rubber and coating on the hydraulic lines. Whacking on the assembly in situ could also bust the little dentent fixture on the front brake throttle side of the bars.

That Loctite is just canned air. Likely CO2. Canned air for freezing stuff is Boyles Law and a demo of the laws of thermodynamics and just giving the can a shake and turning it upside down. Another solution to the freezing is to buy a half liter of LN2.

[34468 Randy]

By looking at the pix, is a Robertson Screw driver an option. I have used that in the past to deal with those freeking phiillips screws. Just makes sure that if you do try a Robertson, you use one that is tight. Otherwise you are likely to make thigs worse.

[Metallican525]

Going by the pic, your bike is put away in a dry environment. The cover screws for the clutch and brake resevoirs are coated and are not all that hard. ie easy to strip if corrosions has set in. There is still "wiggle room" for water to get into the screw holes. It might be a good idea to just dump the OEM screws for stainless when your extraction is finished.

Also, maybe check the maintenance suggestions for your particular bike and see if the hydraulic fluids in both systems need replacing.

Allthough I do like, and tend to lean toward stainless hardware as a replacement for everything, it won't help that much in this situation. You're all thinking "But it's stainless, so, it dosen't rust?!?!?!" This is correct, to a point, there are many different grades and varietys of "stainless steel" No all are as resistant to corrosion as others. However, in this situation, you are still working with TWO DIS-SIMILAR METALS. The master cylinder is aluminum (I belive), the fasteners are not. Anybody care to tell me how a battery works??? Dis-similar metals stacked every other with fluid in between, water. Yes batteries have acids, electrolyte, etc. mixed in with the water, this is to make it more efficient in producing electricity. So, if anyone has followed my ramblings to this point, here's the point: Yes, try to get stainless fasteners to replace the ones that are in there, but, coat the threads with a thin layer of moly grease so as to keep moisture from collecting in between the threads. Coating threads with ANYTHING (grease, loctite, snow, etc.) allong with using a fastener of a different metal from stock WILL change the way that the fastener reaches it's torque spec. Not trying to preach or call anyone stupid, just tryin to help.

[k1c]

Using an easy-out wiould be a be a tremendously delicate operation. You would have to use one with a very small diameter, and if the screw is stuck hard you have as much chance of breaking off the easy-out and leaving a piece of hardened metal in the broken screw that will render removal impossible. Hello Brand New Resevoir!

So, first Be Patient!

Spray the thing liberally with penetrating oil every few hours for a couple of days and let it sit. Tapping the head of the screw with a screwdriver and light hammer or impact screwdriver will help free up the shank, but be gentle. As mentioned, you do not want to fracture the cylinder. Heat the area around the screw with a hair dryer or, if you are very, very, very careful, a heat gun. As previously mentioned, Dremel a slot in the screw if you have enough room, and remove. If that doesn't work dremel off the head of the screw and go the vice grips route.

Good Luck.

[Badbilly]

Using an easy-out wiould be a be a tremendously delicate operation. You would have to use one with a very small diameter, and if the screw is stuck hard you have as much chance of breaking off the easy-out and leaving a piece of hardened metal in the broken screw that will render removal impossible. Hello Brand New Resevoir!

So, first Be Patient!

Spray the thing liberally with penetrating oil every few hours for a couple of days and let it sit. Tapping the head of the screw with a screwdriver and light hammer or impact screwdriver will help free up the shank, but be gentle. As mentioned, you do not want to fracture the cylinder. Heat the area around the screw with a hair dryer or, if you are very, very, very careful, a heat gun. As previously mentioned, Dremel a slot in the screw if you have enough room, and remove. If that doesn't work dremel off the head of the screw and go the vice grips route.

Good Luck.

Good stuff! Any operation of this type should be IMO, done if possible with the assembly off the bike.

I'm a bit confused since the patent for the Robertson screw and driver was granted in 09.

[donald branscom]

Just try a square drive bit and see if you can get it to move,
Tap it with a punch and small hammer first a couple times - NOT a plastic handle though.
Must be a steel drift or flat punch. Then try to loosen the screw.

[02 VFR Rider]

First off a #2 phillips will always strip those screw heads it is a jap head and you need a specail driver.
I will look up the exact name and markings to post up. I think it is JNP 2
best bet is to carefully drill off the head and the rest can be remove w/ a small pair of vise grips once the cover is off.
another option is a #1 square drive as mentioned above and taped lightly to get some purchase into the striped head.

[horseiron1]

Craftsman 4 pc. Drill-Out Power Extractor


Sold by Sears | Sears Item# 00952155000 | Model# 450SR

I had to do this a couple of time on the 1gen bike and never had any issues of being to0 big or too small. To each their own I guess.

[squirrelman]

First off a #2 phillips will always strip those screw heads it is a jap head and you need a specail driver.
I will look up the exact name and markings to post up. I think it is JNP 2
best bet is to carefully drill off the head and the rest can be remove w/ a small pair of vise grips once the cover is off.
another option is a #1 square drive as mentioned above and taped lightly to get some purchase into the striped head.

THAT'S the ticket right there ! easiest, cheapest way with minimum chances of damaging anything. be sure no metal flakes get into reservoir.

just drill the head off and remove the stub with pliers

[jasonsmith]

Clean the area out where the metal has filled in the slots of the phillips recesses, take some valve grinding compound and put a dab on the end of your phillips screw driver and and screw the screw out. If your lucky to have enough to grab onto it will work. Otherwise use an easy out type device. There are a couple different kinds out there. I've been using the valve grinding compound trick for years on the worst of cases with only a few having to go to the easy out. The trick obviously is to not let the screwdriver slip. Best to stop turning if you think it's going to slip as you loose your ability with every mash of the screw.

[squirrelman]

It really helps to whack on the screws with a hammer and the proper-sized screwdriver a few times before attempting to remove; it breaks the corrosion bond between screw and mc.

[JTC]

Pull the other screw, go find/buy a tap or rethreader to match. Usually these will say right on them what size drill bit to use, (if not, you can google "drill and tap chart") then get yourself a solid carbide drill bit. Drill out the broken one. you can use a toothpick for depth reference. Then tap or rethread, preferably rethread. Taps cut metal, rethreaders push metal. For a while I would always try easy outs first but if you break one of those off in there you'll have no choice but drill with carbide, ceramic or diamond. HSS drill bits won't cut an easy out, even TI coated ones. Since it seemed like I was breaking the easy out 20% of the time, I just started skipping it and going straight to a carbide bit and then rethreading. Carbide will cut through HSS like HSS cuts through wood. By the looks of the striped head you won't have any problem starting it or keeping it centered regardless wether or not you decide to take the unit completely off the bike. Although, +1 for taking it off the bike and using a drill press. If it were mine that's probably what I would do, a little more time consuming but it will be right the first time. If you muck it up while its on the bike, you'll most likely have to remove it anyway.
Good luck.

[Spike]

glad to see I am not the only one that runs into something like this when just doing a quick maitainence project.

I wouldn't use an impact driver, not on that. I too would be afraid of making a real mess. As for the Sears thing, I bought one last year when I had a stuck bolt, it didn't work for me, but maybe it will work better for you. In my case, I did something they say you are never to do. I took a drill bit that was a size or two smaller (although i was dealing with a much larger screw that you are here) than the body of the screw, and carefully started to drill out the screw. My thought was that if I removed enough "meat" from the center of the screw, the the walls of it woudl just collapse. About halfway through the drill bit got stuck (I wasn't using cutting fluid) which actually worked out well. Instead of working it free, I just put the drill in reverse, and slowly backed the drill bit, with the remains of the screw still on it, out of the hole. Worked perfectly, but accidentally. Come to think of it, I never did get that screw off that drill bit...

For the future, those screws have a really low suggested intstall torque in the manual, they really aren't supposed to be put in very tight. I want to say like 12-15lb feet, but that is without looking in the manual, so please don't go by it.

[squirrelman]

I may be all wrong on this one, but i wouldn't use an easyout for this job cuz chances of damage to screw hole are too great.....

-If screw threads are nicely greased they won't stick.

[k1c]

I may be all wrong on this one, but i wouldn't use an easyout for this job cuz chances of damage to screw hole are too great.....

-If screw threads are nicely greased they won't stick.

You got it. Anti seize on everything, especially where disimilar metals come together.

[Badbilly]

You got it. Anti seize on everything, especially where disimilar metals come together.

Any recommendations for an anti seize for my battery when I have another R/R crap out? ;)

[squirrelman]

Any recommendations for an anti seize for my battery when I have another R/R crap out? ;)

"Slick 50," right ???

[Badbilly]

I heard the stuff is great. I'll try some. If it works in batteries, I wonder if it will work in magnetos too. ;)



Odd thread this one. Started as a bad thread and ended up as a good one.