Motad SS headers worth $600 ?

[steven113]

I am nearing the end of building my 98 and have had my eyes on a set of motad headers since I started. My stock headers are in decent shape but if I decide to keep them I plan on sending them to jet hot for a high temp coating. I am running a Jardine RT-1 pipe and k&n air filter and still need to pick up a Power Comander for a custom map. Before I have the bike maped I would like to have my bike complete with all mods installed. If the motad system is an improvement over stock I dont mind shelling out the extra coin but on the other hand I dont want to waste mony that coud be spent elsewhere either. Looking for advice... It would be great if someone had some before and after dyno charts!

[Action]

I think you should buy the Motad headers and sell my yours (cheap)!

Seriously, most people buy the Motad's to get rid of the cat. If i remember right the headers are about the same otherwise. If you do decide to go ahead with the Motads I am looking for a set of headers.

Action

[Rev]

Plus they are practically a work of art compared to the stock ones. Better sound, better exhaust flow to boot.

[soundmaster31]

lol, geez guys...last time I checked I thought the Motad headers were just a stainless steel version of the stock headers? Especially since the 1998 year doesn't have a catalytic converter. Only reason guys were buying them was to skip a hack job on the cat for 2000's and up since it was a bolt on replacement even for the 6th gen. The only other reasons are your original headers got damaged or you just have to have everything. I don't remember seeing anything about improved flow over the 1998 stock headers at all.

I emailed MOTAD to ask about the flow rate. I'll let you know what I find out.

EDIT: I found this thread over at the "other" site. Check out comment #28 for an opinion on different headers.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/i...howtopic=28180

[soundmaster31]

Here is the response from MOTAD(super fast response time btw fwiw - Maybe that explains the numerous typos? or I'm just not British enough lol):

"Hi Steven,

thanks for the enquiry,our replacement headers are developed as ai direct replacment for the original parts,they will give the same if not slighty better power than the estock system.

Motad Sales

----- Original Message -----
From: soundmaster_31@yahoo.com
To: sales.motad@btconnect.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: WEBSITE Enquiry : VFR800 FW-F1 DownPipe & Collector Unit

Visitor sent this enquiry from the website on February 4, 2009, 9:47 am.
(Enquiry Page)

The visitor's details:

Name: Mr. Steven Karl
Contact Email: soundmaster_31@yahoo.com
Contact Phone:

Visitor's Comments:

Does this unit perform at OEM stock flow rates or does it offer a higher flow rate than the stock headers? Thanks.

This visitor has expressed an interest in VFR800 FW-F1 DownPipe & Collector Unit RRP £327.27"


So IMHO, unless someone has dyno charts indicating that MOTAD headers provide more power than stock headers with identical setups, then it's not worth the money for the headers unless you're totally hooked on having stainless steel headers or if you just want to get rid of a catalytic converter.

Remember that they only come in a matte gray finish unlike the polished ones in the picture on the website (what a bummer! ....unless you're going to have them coated anyways)

[Bubba Zanetti]

Thanks for the info soundmaster.

BZ

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by steven113

I am nearing the end of building my 98 and have had my eyes on a set of motad headers since I started. My stock headers are in decent shape but if I decide to keep them I plan on sending them to jet hot for a high temp coating. I am running a Jardine RT-1 pipe and k&n air filter and still need to pick up a Power Comander for a custom map. Before I have the bike maped I would like to have my bike complete with all mods installed. If the motad system is an improvement over stock I dont mind shelling out the extra coin but on the other hand I dont want to waste mony that coud be spent elsewhere either. Looking for advice... It would be great if someone had some before and after dyno charts!

As the official Motad importer, if we can be of any assistance to questions you might have, please let us know...

The only clarification we would like to make is that the exhaust is not $600, as with the WILDLY swinging exchange rates the price for the VFR Motad exhaust has been reduced substantially from previous levels.

Obviously the weakness of the UK economy (not good for anyone in reality!) is good for us over here, but rates are moving very quickly (GB Pound has moved 5% in the past few days) so we will hold this price only as long as the exchange rates stay in our favor.

Just in case this helps in your decision at all...

[BASFjon]

Personally Deleted - Steve needs his sales, NorcalBoy a bit upset ??

[BASFjon]

Personally Deleted - Steve needs his sales, NorcalBoy a bit upset ??

[NorcalBoy]

Originally Posted by SteveLarson

As the official Motad importer, if we can be of any assistance to questions you might have, please let us know...

The only clarification we would like to make is that the exhaust is not $600, as with the WILDLY swinging exchange rates the price for the VFR Motad exhaust has been reduced substantially from previous levels.

Obviously the weakness of the UK economy (not good for anyone in reality!) is good for us over here, but rates are moving very quickly (GB Pound has moved 5% in the past few days) so we will hold this price only as long as the exchange rates stay in our favor.

Just in case this helps in your decision at all...

Steve, just wanted to say hi and to let you know that the Motad you sold me last winter has worked out exceptionally well for me.

The Motad, with LV carbon cans and a Power Commander did provide a very nice, dyno verified, hp increase over the stock cat and can system on my '06. I am very happy with the system. I would recommend it to any person looking to eliminate the cat from their exhaust and get a nice hp increase also. The weight savings alone, was worth the cost of the system. I would be happy to debate the effectiveness of this sytem with anyone who actually has one or has any hard data that proves otherwise.

I just want to let all of you folks know that Steve is a super nice guy, provides awesome personalized service, and just happens to sell a great product. Steve is also a rider like you and I (Duc, if i'm not mistaken....), not just another salesman! Give Steve, Annitori, and Motad, your business and you won't be sorry.

Hope you and the family are well, Steve. Good to see you pop up again to support your product. Happy New Year.

Ron Sheldrake (aka Norcalboy)
Santa Rosa, CA

[soundmaster31]

Folks, the real question here is whether the Motad headers offer any peformance benefits over the stock headers of the 1998 model which don't have catalytic converters.

Obviously cat-less Motad's will improve 6th gen performance since they originally came with catalytic converters equipped and even the later model 5th gens that had cats as well.

Any comments of Motad vs Stock 98/99 headers(which don't have catalytic converters to begin with) would be appreciated.

[SteveLarson]

Wow, have you guys been busy on the keyboards!!! :)

Sorry, uhhh Steve has left the building right after reading these posts. He was mumbling to himself and saying something about a distant island and bikini clad women...

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by BASFjon

What I noticed in the Motad's are that, when them - I dropped about 3 mpg, and it felt as if the headers supported acceleration more then sustaining engine speed - which is why I think the mpg dropped. Felt like I had a slightly bit more throttle open at cruising speeds around town 35-45. But the acceleration was so much more thrilling. I didn't feel like the VFR was trying hardly at all when I cranked on the throttle. It just went freely. It matches the personality of the motor much better and the feel is more natural. The Motad Headers are a step in the right direction.

All good news, and of course most riders when they have better accelleration, tend to "use" the throttle a bit more, which might explain some of the mpg change...

Also, a sidenote - I believe that there are two versions of the Motad's. There is a standard OEM replacement, and a Big-Bore replacement. I didn't read about this until I had already installed the Motad's. However the set I received were just a mm or 2 bigger in the overall primary downpipe diameters - and this should be the standard replacement. It would be appreciated if the Rep's could verify this.

I have an email off to my counterpart in the UK, but for all we have ever been told the designs have been the same since "day one", and they are the same designs as we (and they) offer currently.

I will reply back with what I hear from them, but as was noted in the post above, the intention of Motad with these systems was OEM replacement. To my knowledge, Motad has not ever offered any "big bore" version for racing or such.

I will let you know what I hear back...

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by NorcalBoy

Steve, just wanted to say hi and to let you know that the Motad you sold me last winter has worked out exceptionally well for me.

The Motad, with LV carbon cans and a Power Commander did provide a very nice, dyno verified, hp increase over the stock cat and can system on my '06. I am very happy with the system. I would recommend it to any person looking to eliminate the cat from their exhaust and get a nice hp increase also. The weight savings alone, was worth the cost of the system. I would be happy to debate the effectiveness of this sytem with anyone who actually has one or has any hard data that proves otherwise.

I just want to let all of you folks know that Steve is a super nice guy, provides awesome personalized service, and just happens to sell a great product. Steve is also a rider like you and I (Duc, if i'm not mistaken....), not just another salesman! Give Steve, Annitori, and Motad, your business and you won't be sorry.

Hope you and the family are well, Steve. Good to see you pop up again to support your product. Happy New Year.

Ron Sheldrake (aka Norcalboy)
Santa Rosa, CA

Com'on Mom, why do you go and hide behind names like this on the forums and then say all these things? Nobody is going to believe you...!

Ron, great to hear from you, everything here is as well as can be... Motorcycle industry is taking a good beating right now but we are hanging in there nicely!

I need to get back out there and do some riding; too much cold and snow here in Chicago and I am pretty tired of it by now.

Yes, I do ride, although no Duc at the moment. But there is a Vertemati and VTR in the garage (like the "V" thing I snuck in there?), along with about 22 other "stupid" things I have bought and somehow never sold!

Ah, just need to get some warm air, a few rain storms to wash the roads clean, and life will be good again.

Hope you are well also, thanks for the kind words! (Do I still owe you $20 each time you post these lies?)

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by soundmaster31

Folks, the real question here is whether the Motad headers offer any peformance benefits over the stock headers of the 1998 model which don't have catalytic converters.

Obviously cat-less Motad's will improve 6th gen performance since they originally came with catalytic converters equipped and even the later model 5th gens that had cats as well.

Any comments of Motad vs Stock 98/99 headers(which don't have catalytic converters to begin with) would be appreciated.

Yes. Sort of...

Then again, if you are looking for a header to put on your VFR that does what putting a header on a GSXR does, then no.

The Motad is designed for good fit, uses better materials then stock, is a bit better flowing so maybe 1-2 hp over stock? But who has a dyno which can control enough factors where you could actually measure 1 or 2 hp in the real world?

So from an advertising, "get you to buy it" perspective, 1-2 HP is "HP", so we get to answer "yes".

That said, this HP not exactly something to make you suddenly head off to the Daytona highbanks because of...

Losing the rusted out stock header, holding or gaining performance across the entire curve at a price that is less then most single muffler slip-ons, and those ARE very big advantages in our opinion to any buyer.

And if I might add, if the question is "GSXR HP", then it needs to be said that nothing will give the VFR "big" HP, because the design of the motor and the intended purpose of the machine means that the motor is not MEANT to respond to big headers. Sure, we can add big HP to a GSXR-1000, because that is what the motor wants us to do.

But not the VFR. It is a mildly tuned, big midrange, flat torque motor. Trying to add big HP is just not going to happen with any header, the Motad included...

Does this help at all?

[NorcalBoy]

Originally Posted by SteveLarson

Yes. Sort of...

Then again, if you are looking for a header to put on your VFR that does what putting a header on a GSXR does, then no.

The Motad is designed for good fit, uses better materials then stock, is a bit better flowing so maybe 1-2 hp over stock? But who has a dyno which can control enough factors where you could actually measure 1 or 2 hp in the real world?

So from an advertising, "get you to buy it" perspective, 1-2 HP is "HP", so we get to answer "yes".

That said, this HP not exactly something to make you suddenly head off to the Daytona highbanks because of...

Losing the rusted out stock header, holding or gaining performance across the entire curve at a price that is less then most single muffler slip-ons, and those ARE very big advantages in our opinion to any buyer.

And if I might add, if the question is "GSXR HP", then it needs to be said that nothing will give the VFR "big" HP, because the design of the motor and the intended purpose of the machine means that the motor is not MEANT to respond to big headers. Sure, we can add big HP to a GSXR-1000, because that is what the motor wants us to do.

But not the VFR. It is a mildly tuned, big midrange, flat torque motor. Trying to add big HP is just not going to happen with any header, the Motad included...

Does this help at all?

Just a quick note, I am currently involved with a "little" engine project and my engine builder is ultra anal about things.....he was very impressed with the with the exactness of the header inlets.....he was quite surprised that they were all very uniform in size...within a couple thousands actually. He said the product was very well made compared to most over the counter systems he sees...which is quite a few.

I will shoot you the numbers after I get it off the dyno in 6 weeks or so, by pm of course.... Thanks for the response, Steve.

[BASFjon]

Personally Deleted - Steve needs his sales, NorcalBoy a bit upset ??

[NorcalBoy]

Have your header ceramic coated...substantially lower external surface temperatures and much better thermo scavenging...adds just a little more hp and the pipes really look good.

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by BASFjon

...It might affect it a small amount or a large amount - that unknown is another reason why I chose just buying the Motad. And honestly, I chose to not guess at all. However, I will add, and only because I like to help those that want to venture and get into this stuff, that if you did do this, it would be best to get measurements of the motad up close and mimic it the placement and angle of the Y-section (apologies to Motad).

Bastards! We have spies everywhere, camera's are looking at you just over your shoulder (look up and smile!) so DON'T pull out that micrometer even in the dark! We have night vision too!

Now, where is my copy of the "Patriot Act"...?

Always remember, we are watching you...

[SteveLarson]

OK, a couple of answers:

Motad has confirmed that they have never offered any "big bore" downpipes, they have only offered the part numbers we still use now, with the designs being the same since day one.

Regarding the routing of the primaries, I am not personally aware of where the stock parts route on each bike across the years, so your photo is all I know of this. But the response we receieved from Motad was that the system was tested on the VTEC and performed "better" then expected (sometimes better to be lucky then good!), so rather then "re-design the wheel" they went with what worked. They do admit that the Motad does not follow the exact routing of the stock pipes, but they do work and costs of production are better.

Lastly, I have to say that part of my job is to watch and respond on forum boards across the spectrum, and the VFR sites are some of the most pleasant places to converse and exchange information. It is rare on most forums that a thread goes more then a few responses without some jerk being a "you know what" for whatever personal motivation, or the thread being hijacked into some inane conversation.

You guys are intelligent and pleasant to exchange with, keep the dopes off your site!

[BASFjon]

Personally Deleted - Steve needs his sales, NorcalBoy a bit upset ??

Considerations for a Catless Header

[SteveLarson]

Originally Posted by BASFjon

Personally Deleted - Steve needs his sales, NorcalBoy a bit upset ??

Considerations for a Catless Header

No need to delete anything, if somebody wants to build their own header, have fun... The amount of time and money spent to "re-build" what already exists, getting the performance right and the fit issues resolved is probably more then just buying it in a Motad box and installing it on the bike...?

Oh, the fun of custom motorcycle efforts!

[Echo3Niner]

OK, I just read all the Motad threads on here (damn there is a lot of them), and I don't want to stir the pot, but I honestly have a question:

I have a 6th Gen with Cat (2007 VTEC, NON-ABS), and at some point I'm planning to replace the headers TO ELIMINATE the cat. I understand Motad DOES NOT make a "big bore" pipe kit for the VFR; however, as I've read the MANY posts on this subject, I keep getting the idea that the 5th gen headers were bigger than but will fit the 6th gen (right?):

1. So, all else being equal and assuming the above is accurate; since I'm going to replace the headers anyway to rid myself of the cat, and the 5th gen will fit my bike, should I actually order the 5th gen Motads to put on my 6th gen, thus getting the bigger pipes?

2. If so, is there a specific year of the 5th gen that would be a better fit to my 2007?

AND 3. If so, is this going to be a direct fit, or will I need to "Jerry rig" it?

[BASFjon]

My understanding is they make only one size header - they confirmed there was no big-bore header. And they make them with the kickstand stop or without.

[SteveLarson]

The first answer is easy, there is no "jerry rigging" anything, the Motad system is designed specifically for the machine and will install just as the OEM pipe does.

That is not to say that V-4's are anything "fun" to work on, so patience is a key, but Motad has designed a very clean and neat system here.

As for the "big bore" questions, that is one for all of you extreme "techie's" up here to hash out. We think this conversation has been had many, many, many times, so we will keep out opinions out of it...

[Echo3Niner]

So, if I am understanding everyone; what you are saying is that even though OEM for the 5th gen is bigger than the 6th gen; the Motad OEM replacement headers are the same for either generation?

[DGW]

I have the Motad for the sixth generation. I ordered it with the center stand stop and O2 bungs. The piping is bigger than the stock header. I'm very pleased with it,the fit was spot on and it saves quite a bit of weight.

[steven113]

Installed motad headers on the bike today! Fitment was excelent and quality seems to be very nice! I am quite happy with my purchase! Thanks for all of the input guys! I was going to post a pic of the pipes installed but for some reason I could not attach teh pic to the thread, I will try again tomorrow