Transition from Passenger to Pilot

[drewl]

Allow me, if you will, to ask a serious question.

My 16 year old daughter loves to ride with me. Yesterday we took a spirited ride to enjoy a beautiful afternoon. With no instruction at all she was a great passenger. She intuitively knew when and how to lean, how to hold on, when not to shift her weight, etc. It was almost as if she were not there other than the added stopping time/accel time.

The question is this: would any of you have some insight as to whether an experienced passenger can become a good pilot? I would love to be able to buy her a bike some day and have her ride along side me. Is her experience this far any indication of riding skills to come?

[ROJ]

Thats a tough question to answer. Having the instincts you described is a bonus, but becomeing a good rider also requires concentration and the ability to multi-task as well. In my case I never rode a motorcycle/dirtbike before my MSF, and I was one of the top riders in my class. A friend of mine grew up on the back of motorcycles, and she is one of the best riders I've ever ridden with.
As my Instructors told us, a good rider has proper A.C.E (Attitude, Concentration, and Emotional) control. So I'd say this instict is a good start for a future rider.

[VT Viffer]

My wife was the same exact way when she was first a passenger on my first bike. Seemed like a natural.

But when I finally convinced her that she would want to actually pilot the bike, and not just be a passenger, that's when things went south.

She got her permit, but was an absolute wreck on the bike. We're talking a complete meltdown. I was behind her in a Jeep (to make sure no traffic was bullying her), and that first ride lasted all of 30 minutes. I talked her into a second piloting attempt, but with the same teary-eyed results.

I have given in to the fact that she'll only ever be a passenger on a bike.

[drewl]

My daughter needs no prodding. If she could take the MSF today she would be there with bells on. She has already decided she wants a CBR 600 RR. She will most probably get a beater bike just like I did at first. She is a bright, responsible, coordinated kid. I just have nothing equal to riding to compare her skills to so far.

[VFRShorty]

From what you've shared about your daughter being such an intelligent and responsible girl in addition to her having a natural feeling for riding along with you, I think it sounds like she could do well on a bike. As ROJ noted there is a lot of mental skills involved in being a good rider. Personally having rode behind Johnny for a long time before getting my bike I believe it helped me.

Another note from my experience, I know that Johnny had a great time helping me adjust to riding my bike on the road. I've ridden dirt bikes, but things are a bit different on the street. For me the big difference was having such a large bike (weight-wise) compared to the dirt bikes I've ridden. I think you would have the time of your life riding with your daughter.

[RVFR]

Oh crazy and lucky. My daughter doesn't have a clue, but will ride and knows and does like yours. I'd say if at all possible get her on a dual sport XL250 if that's not to tall? or an enduro of a size that makes sense, something like that. then take her to a good back road maybe one that's graveled, or a open smooth field, there's a reason behind that, and see how it goes from there, you should be able to tell how it will go from there. in the dirt or, one gets use to the controls with adding in other worries, Yea I know it's not a 600RR LOL but man you need to walk before you fly.

[CARMINE]

IMO, a certain skill as passenger can help, but you can not be sure that a good passenger will be certainly a good driver. For exemple, I can say to be a good driver (40 years on several bikes) but I am always in panic when I am a passenger on a bike, even if I know that the driver is an excellent one. I agree with ROJ : A.C.E. is the only rule.
Lamps and good luck to everyone learning to drive a bike !
Carmine.

[drewl]

Starting in the dirt has been mentioned before, but I had not been thinking of it. Her boyfriend's family are big dirt riders. Maybe I shall allow them to give her some saddle time.

[VFRShorty]

Originally Posted by drewl

Starting in the dirt has been mentioned before, but I had not been thinking of it. Her boyfriend's family are big dirt riders. Maybe I shall allow them to give her some saddle time.

I'd say that is a great idea, generally bf's want to keep their girl safe and won't let her get into trouble. This is especially true if you are letting her join in for the first time.

[CARMINE]

hi, Shorty,
The Princess is back again !
Lamps!
Carmine

[zPix87]

I was about 15 when I started to ride. My dad took me out to a dirt road on his KLR and stunned me when he asked if I wanted to try it myself. I was a somewhat experienced passenger, and had no problem piloting the bike by myself.

I would say that any experience on a bike at all is great, be it as a passenger or operator.

[R.W.]

Great advice so far on this thread, I'm in complete agreement about getting her some saddle time in the dirt first, and then starting on a beater Ninja 250 or 500, most riders will drop their first bike.

[KC-10 FE]

The best way to find out would be to take her to a MSF course that provides the bike (Nighthawk 250 or similar) & drop her off. If you stay around & watch, it would make her nervous. After the course, ask for a detailed report from the RiderCoach. If all goes well, you have your answer. If all does not go well, all you're out is the $$$ the course costs.

KC-10 FE out...

[NorcalBoy]

I have seen this before, literally......GF is awesome on a quad and as a passenger, but puts a window in the garage door first time on the street and never sets foot on a street machine again. There is no correlation. Start in the dirt with a ttr125, or similar machine, and see where it leads. I know, as a father, you want to believe your little lady is gifted, but don't jump the gun. Dirt first, one bad street experience could ruin the love for the sport in a hurry.

[drewl]

So you're saying I should wait to buy her the Z10?

[NorcalBoy]

Originally Posted by drewl

So you're saying I should buy her the Z50?

......FIXT.......

[Yakima9]

This may seem like a dumb question, but can she drive a standard transmition automobile? There is alot more going on when you are driving stick and alot of that transfers over to riding a motorcycle. She will also have a good understanding of how the clutch works and how to slip the clutch. I know when teaching my GF how to ride, I took here out in my truck first, to show her how a clutch works and what happens when you don't give it enough/may to much gas. She got better at that and then used the same "feeling" when riding a bike. She took the MSF class and got her license. Much like VT's wife, I just wasn't comfortable with her riding on the road and in traffic. She was just not aware enough of what was going on around her. If you feel she has a good understanding of how the bike works and is aware of her surroundings when driving/riding, get her a Nighthawk 250 and head to the nearest parking lot!

[vfrchick]

I would have to agree with getting her dirt experience first. I rode, as a passenger on my brother's bicycle first, then his motorcycle. By the time he had a motorcycle, I was in my 20s. I realized how dangerous motorcycles could be and how much multi-tasking was necessary, and I started watching what he was doing with his hands and feet and I asked him lots of questions about how the bike worked and what each hand and foot did. I practiced "riding" in my mind. I didn't actually take steps to learn until I moved to the other side of the country to WA and he was no longer there to take me out for rides. By then I was 28. At that point, I took the MSF course... I think the MSF course is mandatory for any new riders. Of course before I took the course, I bought a bike and tried it out.... and crashed into a parked pickup truck. The next week I took my MSF course, with my hobbling, bruised legs. After the MSF course, I STILL had some close calls and was just plain ole nervous out there on my own.

As a passenger, the "driver" blocks alot of noise and wind, but when you become the driver, you experience all of that full force, and that took me some time and sheer determination to get through. Obviously, each person is different and your daughter may not be affected that way. If she is involved in anything "extreme" like higher level skiing, mountain climbing, anything that requires you to completely depend on your own wits and skills to get out of situations, she might do great. I was straight out of NJ, and the most extreme thing I had done up to that point was hail a cab and ride subways on my own. For me, riding a motorcycle on my own was totally and completely out of my comfort zone, even though I had been a passenger many times. Now, I obviously have no problem riding in any conditions, and I often get complimented on my riding skills. I attribute my riding to the MSF course. Having said all that, I don't think I would recommend having a teenager head out on the street without some dirt experience.

Also, can she drive a car with manual transmission? If she can't, it might be a good idea to teach her. That will give you an indication of whether she'll be able to handle the shifting of a motorcycle. If she can downshift a car, she'll be able to better downshift on a bike... and downshifting is soooooooo important. Stupid as it sounds, I drove stick for along time, but never learned to downshift it, until I rode a motorcycle and learned to downshift the bike. It would have been much more helpful if I had known how to downshift BEFORE riding a bike...