Hayden's Debut

[RWB25]

Considering the physical condition of Nicky, I'm very impressed he was even able to start the race, let alone finish 12th. Another lap, and I'm convinced he would have passed Dani too. He got some good points and considering his condition, he'll take it and head to Motegi.

Nicky was his ever so positive attitude, as usual, in an interview after the race.

>>> MogoGP - Nicky's Debut <<<

Let's hope he has a better race on the Ducati in Motegi.

[drewl]

I very much want to see him healthy. Hell, I even want to see Pedrosa healthy. I do not want to see the same three or four guys on the podium all summer again.

[reg71]

I actually disagree with the notion that Hayden is on the wrong bike that some others have suggested. I think he will do well this year. I don't think he will win the championship this year and most likely ever again, but I think he will podium a fair amount and get more comfortable on the bike. Hell, I don't know much about racing, though. He seems like a decent guy, though. Not quite cutthroat enough for what I picture the GP crowd to be like.

[Marley Davidson]

I think the Ducaty is a carreer destroyer...You must deal with it in a very special way!
I'm saying this because of what happend to Marco Melandri, he isn't the best rider up there, but i think he was among the best and could fight with them for the podium...this was before he went to Ducati. What has he done in Ducati? Nothing!
That's what's happening to Nicky...hope ducati doesn't end with his carreer!

I only "know" 3 guys who can deal with that machine and survive... Loris Capirossi, Troy Bayliss and obviously Rolling Stoner!

But i bet the Texas Tornado would do well with that red beast!

[RWB25]

I keep reading that a lot.....that the Ducati is a career killer and a true beast to ride. I don't think the bike can be blamed for the entire problem. BOTH the rider and the bike must change to work together. If the rider is not willing to change his riding style to suit the bike, it will never work. Obviously, the engineers can modify the bike to suit the rider....but only to a certain extent. The rest of the changes must be made by the rider. If the rider can not change his riding style, he will never win. A true rider can change his riding style to fit the bike.

That's why riders like Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan and Spencer were such great riders. You could give them a moped and they would squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the machine.

I'm not putting Nicky in that same level of talent but he definitely has riding talent. He's been on Honda's for the last 11 years. It's going to take him some time to change his riding style to suit the Ducati. And more importantly, I think he has the talent to change his riding style to suit the Ducati.

But not enough to win a championship. At least not this year.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Considering the physical condition of Nicky, I'm very impressed he was even able to start the race, let alone finish 12th. Another lap, and I'm convinced he would have passed Dani too. He got some good points and considering his condition, he'll take it and head to Motegi.

Nicky was his ever so positive attitude, as usual, in an interview after the race.

>>> MogoGP - Nicky's Debut <<<

Let's hope he has a better race on the Ducati in Motegi.

Nicky heard about the bet on VFRW and he will do everything in his power to make sure NCB loses

Seriously, this is why I like Nicky. He's like any other racer, he wants to win, at almost any cost. So he's going to get on the bike if he can, but he does with a positive attitude.

BZ

[Bubba Zanetti]

I actually disagree with the notion that Hayden is on the wrong bike that some others have suggested. I think he will do well this year. I don't think he will win the championship this year and most likely ever again, but I think he will podium a fair amount and get more comfortable on the bike. Hell, I don't know much about racing, though. He seems like a decent guy, though. Not quite cutthroat enough for what I picture the GP crowd to be like.

I agree with you Reg. People say 'wrong bike'. WTH does that mean?

A racer is on the race bike they are to win on. Now sure some people do better on one bike vs. another for a reason, but a 'true' racer finds ways to get better on the machine they have been handed. Anybody remember that Aprilia Cube Edwards and Haga rode? Thing was a crazy ass bike, but they did what they could.

One of my favorite quotes was back when Kenny Roberts had to ride the TZ750 two-stroke, anybody ever read up on that bike. THAT machine was a death trap! The frame, brakes, suspension could not handle the power it put out. Every racer who rode one didn't have positive things to say about it. Anyway, Roberts won a race (I think his first one riding the damn thing, someone correct me if I'm wrong) and when he came in the pits he was not visibly happy. Instead he said :"They don't pay me enough to ride that thing".

But he didn't care becasue he was going to win. Hopefully Nicky has the same attitide with the Duc.

BZ

[RWB25]

How the hell Nicky was able to ride the Ducati with stitches in his chest and a badly bruised back is beyond me. I know he was on pain-killers but, come on! The pain would still be there and most pain-killers make you loopy, at best. So he had to endure the pain as well as try to concentrate on riding at near 300 km/h will "stoned".

I would not recommend anyone to attempt that. That is why we are here and he is there. We are just mortals. All of those SOB's are just crazy. Impressive and I admire their skill. But still crazy. I'm sure they same thing about us riding on the roads with cagers.

[vfourbear]

How the hell Nicky was able to ride the Ducati with stitches in his chest and a badly bruised back is beyond me. I know he was on pain-killers but, come on! The pain would still be there and most pain-killers make you loopy, at best. So he had to endure the pain as well as try to concentrate on riding at near 300 km/h will "stoned".

I would not recommend anyone to attempt that. That is why we are here and he is there. We are just mortals. All of those SOB's are just crazy. Impressive and I admire their skill. But still crazy. I'm sure they same thing about us riding on the roads with cagers.

We are ALL just mortals compared to any of those Moto GP guys. Well said. As I've said in the past, when I see the LAST guy go by in a Moto GP race I know he's faster and better than every single one of those of us watching.

There will always be some debate on whether MotoGP is truly a riders league or more of a manufacturer's league, in that it is the showcase league , the blue sky for major manufacturers, but I agree with some that if it didnt exist, there would be something somewhere similar, there has to be a way for buliders to show off their latest and greatest. And it must be matched with the best riders they can find. Is there politics in who gets to ride? Surely, there is in everything in life. But until they build a bike that can go faster without a rider, .........

As for Nicky, its quite possible that he has reached his high point, and we may not see it again. Being as he's a local boy, he will always get my support, and I'm not quite ready to count him out . But Nicky has never been a dominating rider in MotoGP, his championship came thanks to a photo finish by Elias over Rossi, and then Rossi making a mistake in the last race of the season. ( Pedrosa's antics aside). Is his career on the uphill side, is he a new guy on the make like say Lorenzo or Kallio? No. Is he a dominant multiple champion like Rossi? No, Is he the new American, like Spies? Nope. Just same old hard working Nicky.

I still feel that the smaller machines dont suit him well, and time will tell if he can adapt and become a supposed "great " rider.

It certainly wont be for lack of trying on his part.

You can be sure I'll be pulling for him to do so

[emon07]

I have never disliked Hayden for any reason and have become a fan since the idiots at Honda dissed him for Pedrosa. I want to see Nicky do good because he has proven himself by wining a MotoGP Championship and has worked very hard. I got respect for Hayden and want to see him get healthy and put it all together on the track. Nicky deserves a chance to reach his full potential since he does put in the work.

[vfourbear]

I

That's why riders like Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan and Spencer were such great riders. You could give them a moped and they would squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the machine.


.

What ever happened to those days eh? When Americans were on every podium.

The good ole days werent they?

[vfourbear]

I have never disliked Hayden for any reason and have become a fan since the idiots at Honda dissed him for Pedrosa. I want to see Nicky do good because he has proven himself by wining a MotoGP Championship and has worked very hard. I got respect for Hayden and want to see him get healthy and put it all together on the track. Nicky deserves a chance to reach his full potential since he does put in the work.

Not having been in the Honda garage myself to render an opinion based on first hand experience, all I have is what I read and hear to go on when it comes to whether Honda "dissed " anyone. I suspect that's it more likely that a decision was made to go in a new direction since the bikes were getting smaller, the rule changes were dictating much of this. Honda went with Dani as their future, and why not? He's tiny, fast, and as fearless as the next guy, and they probably got him at the price they wanted, Nicky most likely was not as good a fit . Happens all the the time in every business.

If this trend toward smaller and more electronics keeps up, we'll soon be treated to guys the size of Wee Man from Jackass riding 400 hp pitbikes being radio controlled from the pits. Of course they'll have a manual override switch should the guy controlling the bike from the GPS monitor gets some thing wrong and the rider will have to pilot the bike into the pits until it can be fixed.

Then we will have a nice series of TV ads featuring the new safer faster motorcycles, Except for American TV where we will continue to see ads for cruiser behemoths the size of locomotives made to go in a string-straight line made by the manufacturers of the radio controlled bikes.

[drewl]

No drug testing in MotoGP then I guess.

[RWB25]

No drug testing in MotoGP then I guess.

Not a chance. Roids make you bulky. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are drugs out there to allow you to make lean muscle mass. Nothing would surprise me in the "pharmaceutical" industry.

[reg71]

But i bet the Texas Tornado would do well with that red beast!

I would love to see him on that beast! He was fun to watch

[reg71]

Not a chance. Roids make you bulky. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are drugs out there to allow you to make lean muscle mass. Nothing would surprise me in the "pharmaceutical" industry.

those are roids buddy. ever hear of decadurabolin? great stuff. or so I hear...

[NorcalBoy]

How the hell Nicky was able to ride the Ducati with stitches in his chest and a badly bruised back is beyond me. I know he was on pain-killers but, come on! The pain would still be there and most pain-killers make you loopy, at best. So he had to endure the pain as well as try to concentrate on riding at near 300 km/h will "stoned".

I would not recommend anyone to attempt that. That is why we are here and he is there. We are just mortals. All of those SOB's are just crazy. Impressive and I admire their skill. But still crazy. I'm sure they same thing about us riding on the roads with cagers.

He better fuckin' ride, he gets paid a handsome sum to race motorcycles and compared to what others have historically endured, that was a feckin' hangnail. The guy got pain killing injections sunday and monday night. He is a nice guy, but he's no superhero. He isn't going to be regularly on the box like that Zanetti guy mentions. If we do see him on any box regularly, it will be on the back of a milk container. He finishes the championship in 8th or 9th (at best). I think he would have been far better off at Tech3 with Colin, but his Honda departure was one year too late, timing is everything and his is about up in MotoGP.

[Bubba Zanetti]

He better fuckin' ride, he gets paid a handsome sum to race motorcycles and compared to what others have historically endured, that was a feckin' hangnail. The guy got pain killing injections sunday and monday night. He is a nice guy, but he's no superhero. He isn't going to be regularly on the box like that Zanetti guy mentions. If we do see him on any box regularly, it will be on the back of a milk container. He finishes the championship in 8th or 9th (at best). I think he would have been far better off at Tech3 with Colin, but his Honda departure was one year too late, timing is everything and his is about up in MotoGP.

"that Zanetti guy"?

That's Mr. Zanetti to you! but only if ya nasty NCB LOL!

I have to agree with you. Nicky with Colin would have been a nice match up.

BZ

[RWB25]

those are roids buddy. ever hear of decadurabolin? great stuff. or so I hear...

And that is exactly why VFRW is so great. We have knowledge on just about every subject and we willing to share with our friends.

Nope. Honestly can't say I've ever heard of decadurabolin. Sounds like an additive they put in Slick 50.

[emon07]

Not having been in the Honda garage myself to render an opinion based on first hand experience, all I have is what I read and hear to go on when it comes to whether Honda "dissed " anyone. I suspect that's it more likely that a decision was made to go in a new direction since the bikes were getting smaller, the rule changes were dictating much of this. Honda went with Dani as their future, and why not? He's tiny, fast, and as fearless as the next guy, and they probably got him at the price they wanted, Nicky most likely was not as good a fit . Happens all the the time in every business.

If this trend toward smaller and more electronics keeps up, we'll soon be treated to guys the size of Wee Man from Jackass riding 400 hp pitbikes being radio controlled from the pits. Of course they'll have a manual override switch should the guy controlling the bike from the GPS monitor gets some thing wrong and the rider will have to pilot the bike into the pits until it can be fixed.

Then we will have a nice series of TV ads featuring the new safer faster motorcycles, Except for American TV where we will continue to see ads for cruiser behemoths the size of locomotives made to go in a string-straight line made by the manufacturers of the radio controlled bikes.

Well like anything else opinions and definitions are somewhay subjective. Check the link below and form you own opinion on weather Hayden got dissed not. I hear ya.


Excerpt from news story (full story link below) "Hayden’s departure from the factory Repsol Honda team comes as no surprise with the 2006 world champion keen to seek a new challenge. For some time Hayden has been frustrated with the political and technical turmoil of the HRC squad.

Hayden’s Ducati deal ends his long association with Honda and has come as a big shock to the management of Honda USA who have lost a valuable marketing asset."

MOTO-RACING - MOTOGP: Hayden to Ducati Announcement Expected Soon - SPEEDtv.com


Another article excerpt - "Conflicting reports are emerging from Italy about the future of Nicky Hayden in MotoGP. On the one hand, we have MotoGrandPrix.it, who are reporting that Hayden is close to signing a new 2-year contract with Repsol Honda. According to Alessio Piana, HRC is determined to avoid the fiascos of the last two years, during which both Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa didn't sign their new contracts with Honda until the very last minute, leaving HRC with few other alternatives should the negotiations with the riders fail. As a consquence Honda wants to sign contracts early, and keep control of the situation in its own hands. In this view, Honda would want to close the negotiations with Hayden as early as possible, and try and keep the last man to win them a world title a Honda man for life.


The authoritative site GPOne.com sees it differently. Alberto Cani is claiming that the most likely scenario is that Hayden will make way for either Andrea Dovizioso or Marco Melandri. Dovi has made a huge impact on the Team Scot satellite Honda, and has a clause in his contract allowing him to leave the team at the end of the year if he gets the call from HRC. But another option could well be Marco Melandri, who, on the strength of his performance at Ducati during the first few races, is unlikely to want to exercise the option he has to stay with Ducati for 2009. Melandri's first port of call would be Repsol Honda, the Italian already having proved his mettle aboard the Honda. But Gresini Honda could be another option for Macio, as he is still on good terms wtih Fausto Gresini.


By this theory, Hayden could then take Melandri's place on the vacant Ducati seat. Ducati are known to be very keen on the American, and the theory runs that Hayden's background in dirt track could help the Kentucky Kid tame the Ducati where Italian riders have failed. Casey Stoner came originally from a dirt track background, and is known to use a lot of back brake to keep the bike stable through corners. Alex Hofmann, who saw Stoner's data during his year riding at the D'Antin Ducati team, was astonished at just how much rear brake Stoner uses, sometimes generating huge forces through the pedal."


Full story link: Cherry Creek News - MotoGP: Hayden on Ducati for 2009

It is not just about Pedrosa with regards to Honda wanting to sign Nicky and he was also under a gag order during the contract negotations.

Hayden did get an offer from Honda which was a demotion - checking for that article. So you can define diss in your terms and I will define diss in my terms. I no not split hairs over small silly things.

[vfourbear]

I will agree that Honda lost a marketing asset when Nicky left, at least in America. But if they were so keen and it was such a shock, wh y not make him a better offer?

I have read those same things that you did and came away with a bit different conclusion. It seems to me that Honda has decided that cruiser bikes and big ole Goldwings are the American market and whatever they may gain by keeping Nicky around can be offset by getting the same or better results with Dani and the Euro market.

What would be really interesting is to know exactly what the compensation offers made to both riders really was.

I dont claim to be a hardcore enough fan to have followed every single nuance of the relationship between Nicky and Honda, nor I have some insider knowledge of what goes on in Nicky's head, for all I know, he may have always had his eye open for a new ride. If I made my living writing for the cycling press, these things would be extremely important to me, but I dont, I just really enjoy watching the races and attending when I get the chance. The behind the scenes drama I just dont know enough about to comment on much beyond what you've seen.

Here's something I actually do know, I live close to Nicky's hometown and know some of his extended family. In Owensboro, Nicky can ride around visiting friends and family and appear in public without hardly anyone noticing him. He enjoys that, because in Europe that's not possilble, he cant go out in public without being pestered to death, cause everyone know who he is. That kind of says something for the state of sportbiking in the USA, and you can say maybe that wouldnt be true everywhere in America, but I say I'm not far off.


My comments were meant to be less about the semantics of your post and more about how racing is big business, and as we all know, businessmen always get it right, witness our most recent examples.

Thanks for responding bro. I always enjoy interesting conversation, and one certainly doesnt have to agree with me for it to be interesting.

[reg71]

I will agree that Honda lost a marketing asset when Nicky left, at least in America. But if they were so keen and it was such a shock, wh y not make him a better offer?

I dont claim to be a hardcore enough fan to have followed every single nuance of the relationship between Nicky and Honda, nor I have some insider knowledge of what goes on in Nicky's head, for all I know, he may have always had his eye open for a new ride. If I made my living writing for the cycling press, these things would be extremely important to me, but I dont, I just really enjoy watching the races and attending when I get the chance. The behind the scenes drama I just dont know enough about to comment on much beyond what you've seen.

I am a casual fan myself, but I do have some insider knowlege on another racer, and I dropped a few hints on the ex-Honda racer before anything came out official. the old messages are probably still around here on VFRW somewhere. My wife knows Jake Zemke because she and his wife went to school together and they live(d) about 10 miles from us. So we would run into him or her or them together on occasion. His wife told me at their high school reunion that they were very interested in moving to Italy and the Jake was less than happy with some of the things going on at Honda. Now, I realize that more than likely it's not the same people handling the GP guys since it's a totally different league, but there were some interesting similarities to the Hayden deal. Enough to make me question Honda a bit.

Incidentally, I haven't seen Jake or his wife around for about a year now so I'm guessing Italy is pretty nice...

Also, while I'm dropping names, Chuck Liddel has been popping up in town more often lately. Funny how he does that before a fight, then we don't see him for a bit after a fight. (esp if he loses) Must be weird for him... He went to college with my brother-in-law but I have only met him briefly. Seems nice enough, though. Glad he is easy going or else he might hurt somebody...

[OTTOMAN]

I think Nicky will do just fine on the Ducati...in the same sense that he did "just fine" on the Honda which, from what I can gather is overall a superior machine (at least historically anyway). Remember when #46 rode the RC211V? He was so dominant that everyone else complained and Hondas seemed to be issued to everybody who was anybody in very short order...still Rossi dominated. His autobiography, "What If I Had Never Tried It" more than suggests a serious dissing from HRC which, in turn, caused #46 to turn from Red to Blue, a previously abysmal example of a GP weapon which went to the top step the first year those numbers were on it. Great book, albeit full of Rossi's ego, it explains his famous 80/20 theory well...80% rider, 20% bike. It will be interesting to compare Nicky's season performance on the Duc vs. the Honda.