VFR 1200 not true 7th gen?

[Richard Thompson]

I'm throwing this out to the forum for general consultation.

what do you guys think?

below is a copy of the text i wrote in the 'tokoyo release' thread.......

" I visited my Honda dealer today to get the low down on this thing.
they know me very well so i trust what they tell me.

heres the low down...

1. the VFR 1200 will be on sale in NZ from 10 Jan 2010 .

2. local price is set at $29,990.00(30K)..thats NZ dollars,so the us exchange is about 72 cents to the NZ dollar...lets say 20% less in USD as aworst case scenario. will be interesting to see if that pans out?

3.i have booked a demo ride.

now heres the kicker.......the gen 6 in its current form is due to stay in range for at least 2 to 3 more years.

what they think is that the 1200 is aimed squarely at the blackbird & st1300 users and moreso BMW's market- R 1200 users.

in essence not a replacement for the 6th gen.

so whats to come then?...well how about a V4 powered fireblade for the sports brigade.

yep the skinny is that Hondas long term intention is to run V4's across the range to help differentiate it from its competitors.
(much like Subaru has done with the boxer engine and AWD.)

so the ranging would look something like this;

VFR 1200-2 versions -sport F model & touring full dress t model later.(same as BMW)

VFR 800 - mid range sport tourer

cbr1000 -v4 Hyper sports (Hmmmm......CBR600 V4 also?)

so if there is to be a true 7th gen replcement the VFR 1200 aint it..IMO its a whole new category, and much like the VF 1000 was to the VF 750 waaay back in 83."

the true 7th gen should be a direct descendant of the line and not a rewrite.

food for thought...

RT

[NorcalBoy]

as it is so radically different from the current 800 that i would have to say it is the 1g 1200.

[derstuka]

Good question Rich. As Ronnie has stated, it seems as though it is a rewrite. What do you think of the appearance of it Rich? Ugly as sin, or just sinfully good looks?

[Richard Thompson]

well, I'll wait to see it in the flesh to decide. but like a number of other bikes i have initially seen its looks have grown on me the more i see it.

it may also look far better in 3D than a picture can convey.

what interests me most are the technical innovations on the bike.

and then theres the price...

[derstuka]

Originally Posted by Richard Thompson

well, I'll wait to see it in the flesh to decide. but like a number of other bikes i have initially seen its looks have grown on me the more i see it.

it may also look far better in 3D than a picture can convey.

what interests me most are the technical innovations on the bike.

and then theres the price...

Yes, I agree Rich....need to see her in the flesh. I will admit, there is a large "knee-jerk" reaction to change, especially for something that you love. If it is a different direction that what one anticipated...well, folks tend to dismiss it.

I am very curious about all of the techinical innovations as well. Dual clutch, economy mode, shaft drive, etc....Honda likes to be an innovator, or at least push the envelope, so we will see how well that this bike is received.

It does look like it is a bike for st and blackbird owners. I am assuming they will be dropping the st model, if the vfr gt model fits the bill for touring riders.

[John451]

Originally Posted by derstuka

It does look like it is a bike for st and blackbird owners.

A Super blackbird replacment for sure but think there is varient coming out to replace the Pan European/ST1300 on the way.

Think the VFR1200 could be classed VFR1200 Gen 1 although just as easily a Gen 7.

My thinking the VFR1200 is also aimed at current VFR800 riders looking for more easy power with sporty handling that may wish to move to a slightly more comfortable ZZR1400, K1300S, GSX1300R alternative while still keeping the current VFR's V4 essence.

[VFR1200]

For me it will come down to $$$$. If this turns out to be BMW money then I will buy a BMW. I have owned Honda's since my first bike 22 years ago. I am on my second 6 Gen VFR800. But I will swap if it costs more than a Honda is worth.

[powderrecon]

Originally Posted by Richard Thompson

2. local price is set at $29,990.00(30K)..thats NZ dollars,so the us exchange is about 72 cents to the NZ dollar...lets say 20% less in USD as aworst case scenario. will be interesting to see if that pans out?


RT

Even though the exchange rate is .72, I think it will be a lot cheaper in the states than just the exchange rate difference. I am thinking US15 - 17k range. Stuff here is usually about half the price than Oz and NZ.
NZ....what a gorgeous place to live though.

[FRE]

I don't see it as a 7th generation VFR, but rather, as a totally different bike. That's not bad, if they continue the VFR 800. Any changes made to the VFR 800 should include a weight reduction and the 1200 should not be called a VFR.

[stoshmonster]

Amen FRE,my thoughts exactly! ^^^

[RVFR]

Well Hell it should be badged a VFXX IMHO. its a whole other breed, the only slightly item in common is the V4 part, but even that ain't even close to being the same, It Shall be an interesting cycle show, be entertaining to hear all the comments, wonder if Honda would have the nerve to have a interpretation comment card to fill out.

[TOE CUTTER]

We do not include the VF1000R's nor the VF1000F in the generation line up, so I do not see the new 1200 as a gen 7.Just me. Please do not throttle me for it.

[cfp5252]

Any Honda is worth more than an equvalent BMW.

[John451]

I'm now leaning to locking it in as VFR1200F Gen 1, if you look its made it to Wikipedia with no direct reference to VFR750/800 Generations, also of note its listed in the Sports-touring class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vfr1200

[vfrcapn]

Originally Posted by TOE CUTTER

We do not include the VF1000R's nor the VF1000F in the generation line up, so I do not see the new 1200 as a gen 7.Just me. Please do not throttle me for it.

I keep typing vf1200f when referring to the new bike. So maybe it's really the 2nd gen of the big VF's.

It certainly has more in common with the old 1000's than the newer 800's. Size, motor, etc, just 25 year newer tech.

[TimRav]

VFR, not a VFR...I don't care. Honda can call it whatever they want, so who am I to argue? How many people said 6th gen's aren't "real VFRs" b/c of chain-driven cams and/or VTEC? I think most VFR fans are beyond that now, but here we go again.

Perhaps Honda felt like they had to keep the VFR name running, and since VFRs used to be the flagship bikes for technology, it makes sense that the new bike would keep the moniker IMO.

As long as the bike kicks ass, the name doesn't really matter to me. Personally, I'd love to see 3 versions of this bike - the unveiled VFR1200F all-arounder, a dedicated ST and a supersport version lighter on bells and whistles but heavy on HP.

I won't lie. One of my dream bikes is the BMW K1300S. The local dealer has one in metallic orange with all the must-have options, lists at $18.3k. I'm not in the market for a new bike but if I were, it would be a tough decision between the Beemer and the new VFR - esp. if they were priced similarly.

[stewartj239]

I'm still waiting to see if the VFR800 will be a 2010 model or if 2009 will be the last for it. If a 2010 model is released, then the Gen 6 lives on and the VFR1200 would be a Gen 1. If 2009 is the last year for the 800, then I guess it could be considered a Gen 7.

[vfrcapn]

Originally Posted by stewartj239

I'm still waiting to see if the VFR800 will be a 2010 model or if 2009 will be the last for it. If a 2010 model is released, then the Gen 6 lives on and the VFR1200 would be a Gen 1. If 2009 is the last year for the 800, then I guess it could be considered a Gen 7.

I think it's too late for the '10 VFR800, they would have announced it by now. The VFR800 is dead, long live the VFR800!

[John451]

Originally Posted by TimRav

VFR, not a VFR...I don't care. Honda can call it whatever they want, so who am I to argue? How many people said 6th gen's aren't "real VFRs" b/c of chain-driven cams and/or VTEC? I think most VFR fans are beyond that now, but here we go again.

Ohh dear you just pointed out the elephant sitting in the corner of the room...

[derstuka]

Originally Posted by VFR1200

For me it will come down to $$$$. If this turns out to be BMW money then I will buy a BMW. I have owned Honda's since my first bike 22 years ago. I am on my second 6 Gen VFR800. But I will swap if it costs more than a Honda is worth.

Your handle is "VFR1200" and you're saying you might by a Beemer instead if the cost is too much....hahaha....I love it.

Originally Posted by TimRav

VFR, not a VFR...I don't care. Honda can call it whatever they want, so who am I to argue? How many people said 6th gen's aren't "real VFRs" b/c of chain-driven cams and/or VTEC? I think most VFR fans are beyond that now, but here we go again.

Perhaps Honda felt like they had to keep the VFR name running, and since VFRs used to be the flagship bikes for technology, it makes sense that the new bike would keep the moniker IMO.

As long as the bike kicks ass, the name doesn't really matter to me. Personally, I'd love to see 3 versions of this bike - the unveiled VFR1200F all-arounder, a dedicated ST and a supersport version lighter on bells and whistles but heavy on HP.

I won't lie. One of my dream bikes is the BMW K1300S. The local dealer has one in metallic orange with all the must-have options, lists at $18.3k. I'm not in the market for a new bike but if I were, it would be a tough decision between the Beemer and the new VFR - esp. if they were priced similarly.

I think the question that Richard was getting at was if this VFR1200 should be considered a 7th gen, or an entire new beginning 1st gen 1200 since it is such a drastic change. He wasn't saying that it was not a VFR, only not a continuation of the current 6th gen.

[mchase]

Originally Posted by TimRav

VFR, not a VFR...I don't care. Honda can call it whatever they want, so who am I to argue? How many people said 6th gen's aren't "real VFRs" b/c of chain-driven cams and/or VTEC? I think most VFR fans are beyond that now, but here we go again.

Perhaps Honda felt like they had to keep the VFR name running, and since VFRs used to be the flagship bikes for technology, it makes sense that the new bike would keep the moniker IMO.

As long as the bike kicks ass, the name doesn't really matter to me. Personally, I'd love to see 3 versions of this bike - the unveiled VFR1200F all-arounder, a dedicated ST and a supersport version lighter on bells and whistles but heavy on HP.

I won't lie. One of my dream bikes is the BMW K1300S. The local dealer has one in metallic orange with all the must-have options, lists at $18.3k. I'm not in the market for a new bike but if I were, it would be a tough decision between the Beemer and the new VFR - esp. if they were priced similarly.

I agree. I don't really care too much about what it's called or what gen it is, or it's intended market for that matter, I happen to love the looks of the new bike, and it /appears/ to be just what I am looking for beyond my 800. I've been rotating through the various desktop wallpapers from powersports.honda.com/vfr for the last few weeks and I can't think of a nicer looking bike within the "sport" or "ST" or whatever you want to call the VFR's genre.
I think it looks refined and modern, and to me it still looks like a VFR; I did have to look at it for a couple of days before really began to appreciate the new styling, but it didn't take long. I just hope the pricing is within my means, and most importantly that I enjoy riding it (that's the most important thing to me, and I'm a "Classic" ); I can't wait to take one for a spin!
CW had good things to say about the bike recently( Cycle World - First Ride: 2010 Honda VFR1200F ) , and that just made me antsy

Anyway... I'm exited!

Matt

[stewartj239]

Originally Posted by vfrcapn

I think it's too late for the '10 VFR800, they would have announced it by now. The VFR800 is dead, long live the VFR800!

Down deep I know you're right, but I'm still in denial!

[vfrcapn]

Originally Posted by stewartj239

Down deep I know you're right, but I'm still in denial!

I still think it would have been more appropriate and keeping with the lineage to name it the VF1200R. Engine, weight and power are much closer to our 1KR's than any of the VFR bikes. But whatever, I don't work for Honda and it's their call ultimately. Probably too much time has passed since the VF series to resurrect it.

[jazclrint]

In the 80's almost all of Honda's bikes were V-4s. Heck I saw an interview with the guy who designed the CBR900 series and he said the V4 was the best engine design for the track or street. Maybe they have found a way to make V4s more economical to produce? I think the bike is en evolution of the VFR800. Look at the pics and videos, it's the same size and basic setup, just the bigger motor many have been crying for for years, basically with Heli bars installed (yuck). How can you not call it a VFR, it's not that different. All of the Interceptors were VFXXX(X)F Interceptors no matter the displacement. The RC30 was a VFR750R. Just cause it's 1200cc doesn't make it a completely different bike. Personally I still have issues calling an bike without gear driven cams a VFR. For 17 years that was part of the package. The VFR1200F is a revolutionary evolution, not a completely different bike.

Is it just me or are the VTEC'ers crying the loudest. I guess it's their turn now. :D

As for 7th gen, we'll just have to see if there is a new VFR800F.

Rich

You know what would be nice? A VFR750R. Something that really made the GSX-R750 nervous, but was easier to ride around town and comfortable for more than a 20 minute track session.

[Alaskan]

Honda calls it a VFR. Ergo, it IS a VFR! ;-)

[mchase]

Ditto- I guess that's what I was getting at. Did anyone notice the "Evolution of the VFR" background on the 1200's website? Seems like kind of a statement to me.

Matt

Originally Posted by jazclrint

In the 80's almost all of Honda's bikes were V-4s. Heck I saw an interview with the guy who designed the CBR900 series and he said the V4 was the best engine design for the track or street. Maybe they have found a way to make V4s more economical to produce? I think the bike is en evolution of the VFR800. Look at the pics and videos, it's the same size and basic setup, just the bigger motor many have been crying for for years, basically with Heli bars installed (yuck). How can you not call it a VFR, it's not that different. All of the Interceptors were VFXXX(X)F Interceptors no matter the displacement. The RC30 was a VFR750R. Just cause it's 1200cc doesn't make it a completely different bike. Personally I still have issues calling an bike without gear driven cams a VFR. For 17 years that was part of the package. The VFR1200F is a revolutionary evolution, not a completely different bike.

Is it just me or are the VTEC'ers crying the loudest. I guess it's their turn now. :D

As for 7th gen, we'll just have to see if there is a new VFR800F.

Rich

You know what would be nice? A VFR750R. Something that really made the GSX-R750 nervous, but was easier to ride around town and comfortable for more than a 20 minute track session.