Cold night, bike wont start

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Blake Williams, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Blake Williams

    Blake Williams New Member

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    Hello, I have a 93 vfr 750. It has been kept out side for the past few weeks due to space issues. This bike has never had any problems being cold blooded etc. since I have owned it. It always starts and idles fine. Last night it got down to 14 degrees F. This morning I put it inside the garage for a couple hours. After a few hours I went to start it and it turns over fine but there is zero stumbling or attempt to fire. It doesnt even sound like bad plugs, it just sounds like either zero spark or zero fuel. The bike was low on fuel so I added some and tried again, still nothing. I am wondering could there be frozen gas in the carbs? is a few hours long enough to thaw that out? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks
     
  2. drewl

    drewl Insider

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    Are we alowed to use HEAT on motorcycles?
     
  3. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    By HEAT I hope you don't mean starting fluid, I wouldn't recommend that, but that's just my two cents.

    One possibility that entered into my mind was that condensation in the tank or fuel circuit had settled and frozen, temporarily plugging the petcock or fouled the fuel delivery circuit. Let the thing warm up a bit and then try it again. The metal of your tank and engine will take a while to warm up from sustained exposure to below freezing temperatures....you could try using a heat gun to slowly put heat back into the metal.

    To check for water in your fuel tank, you can get some water indicating paste and put it on the end of a coat hanger and insert into your tank until it is on the bottom of the tank near the petcock, let it sit for a minute and then remove it. if the paste has changed color you know you have water in the tank. It's alot easier than pulling the tank and draining it, if you don't have to.

    Just a thought...........
     
  4. eddievalleytrailer

    eddievalleytrailer Member

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    It sounds like you have a case of "Fuel Line Freeze-up". It only takes a tiny amount of water to freeze up the fuel line, petcock or float needle valve in the carbs. You mentioned that the bike was low on fuel, which means there was a lot of air in the tank. When the temps cool down, the moisture in the air will condense in the tank then into the fuel. I'd add some "DRY GAS" or fuel line anti-freeze to the next tank of gas and every now and then to keep the water at bay.
     
  5. nozzle

    nozzle New Member

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    dittos to EVT.

    You might try keeping the tank topped off at night so there is minimal air in the tan. fuel up on the way home.
     
  6. Chicken Little

    Chicken Little New Member

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    You could get an intention candle, place it under the oil pan and throw a blanket over it when you leave it outside. It worked on my F650 and alot of the guys on adventure rider do it on those cold, uh, adventure nights. It's just enough.
     
  7. Blake Williams

    Blake Williams New Member

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    Re

    Update. So I filled the tank with new gas and let it sit in the garage over night. Still same symptoms. Just cranks and smells flooded at the pipe. Do the carbs need to be drained and all fuel drained from lines etc? I know that other bikes have super sensitive plugs as well like the earlier GSXR's. Could this have toasted the plugs?
     
  8. nozzle

    nozzle New Member

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    toasted plugs? unlikely without the gas igniting :wink:

    fouled plugs! likely. Take the plugs out, if they are dry, you have a different problem than bad gas. dry them off and use a brass brush to clean them as best you can. use 400+ grit sandpaper to clean between the gap so you'll be getting a good spark. Don't be lazy and just do two, do all four.

    if it still doesn't start...
    Are you sure you are getting spark?

    If you are flooding it, make sure you ventilate the place well so you aren't going to have a bad experience with a spark check. :thumb:
     
  9. eddievalleytrailer

    eddievalleytrailer Member

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    Yeah...What he said!!:biggrin:
     
  10. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Start cranking using only about 1/4 choke and gradually increase choke until she starts popping. Just jamming the choke to FULL and pressing starter button is not a good practice......
     
  11. rngdng

    rngdng New Member

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    If you're smelling heavy gas fumes, you're flooded. No choke, full throttle.


    Lane
     
  12. Blake Williams

    Blake Williams New Member

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    Another update

    So I pulled all the plugs, drained the tank etc. The plugs were wet and fouled. I brushed them, sanded them etc. and then checked each coil for spark. All coils are functioning properly. So now my guess with the provided info you all have sent is this is how it went: bike sat over cold night with nearly empty fuel tank leaving room for condensation. I put it in the garage warming it up further and helping the water to mix in the fuel, then tried to start the bike with the watered fuel and fouled the plugs. Then I put in new fuel from a gas can I had sitting in a cold enclosed trailer which may or may not have helped the cause. By that time though the plugs were fouled and turning over the bike just caused further flooding. So here is my plan now: I have the plugs out, might as well do new ones, I have completely drained the tank so I can start with new premium fuel. The only issue I have is how to completely drain the carbs? Is there any better way as far as time goes than to drain the bowls via the screws? Should I ever worry about the carbs being drained? Is there an additive? I just don't want to go through this work to foul a new set of plugs. Thanks for all your help everyone!
     
  13. Fizz

    Fizz New Member

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    I'm no expert, but I think after repeated floodings the gas/water that builds up in the cylinder may seep past the piston and contaminate the oil in your crank case. The gas might thin out your engine oil quite thin depending on how much (if any got in). The water although it would probably evaporate during use, isn't going to help things.

    EDIT: As for your current water in fuel problem. I've used Sta-bil fuel stabilizer for years in my various two stroke applications (Jet-skis, go karts, etc.) I don't have the bottle in front of me, but I do believe it states that it removes (or maybe prevents) water from mixing with fuel.

    EDIT 2x:
    http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/products.htm
    Might be worth a shot? :dunno:
     
  14. rngdng

    rngdng New Member

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    I don't know the fuel-injected bikes, but if you have convenient drains, I'd drain them. Then you may need to jumper the fuel pump to fill the system up again. Like I said before, you have lots of gas in the system, close the choke, and open the throttle fully, and try starting it. That will lean out the mixture. Good luck.


    Lane
     
  15. nozzle

    nozzle New Member

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    If I had 93, I'd take pictures and tell you exactly what to do, but in general I'm going to guess there is a bolt on the bottom of each carb's bowl that you can loosen to drain the bowls of its gas (and any h2o ;-). have a rag or tray ready to catch the fuel if you can so it doesn't create a mess.

    I used to drain the bowls on my bike before I put them into winter hibernation... the fuel injection is spoiling me... oh, that 6th gen is nice. ;-)
     
  16. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Yes, draining the carbs via float bowl drain screw is good, but be advised that unless you use a bypass at fuel pump relay you will need LOTS of cranking until sufficient fuel is pumped into carbs.
     
  17. Blake Williams

    Blake Williams New Member

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    Follow up

    So I pulled the plugs and they were dark and wet. I dried them, sanded them, put them back in and started over with new fuel that had had half a bottle of octance boost in it. The bike fired up fine and ran great all day. After one night of sitting the next day I went to fire it up and same problem. The plugs werent new, just cleaned up is that likely to be fouled plugs again? With the new gas and clean system can a previously fouled plug still be temprimental? Thanks
     
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