Dead VFR... Help?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Wesley J, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    Hey Guys,

    So, I purchased an '02 VFR a few weeks back. The bike ran flawlessly when I bought it as well as the first day I got it home. Since then it's sat until today when I thought I'd fire it up for a listen.....

    It sounded odd, kind of rough, so I shut it down. I had a quick check of the headers and found one of the cylinders wasnt running (cold header). So, I fired it up again for a listen and it started to get worse. Same test, down to 2 cylinders.

    So, I started to pull fairings to see what I could find. I havent changed anything afterall. Nothing to be found, unplugged the ECU connectors and reconnected. Unplugged the PCIII etc. Gave it a try again, down to a single cylinder.

    So, made sure each of the coils was seeing 12V, which they all are. I dont have the adapter so I cant actually check the firing signal.

    Next, I pulled the fuel return line and turned on the ignition. No problem there, strong burst on the return until the pressure was built up, then a steady flow while cranking the engine.

    Another start attempt and I'm down to no cylinders.

    Sure sounds to me like the ECU, or more specifically the ICM is dead.

    Any other ideas? Anyone know if you can test the ECU? I'm not having much luck on fleabay and the Honda part is 10% of a new bike.....

    Thanks,

    Wesley J
     
  2. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    FI sensors, feeling the cold Canadian air, may have over-enriched starting fuel mixture and flooded plugs.
    pull'em, dry 'em and try again.........

    any flashing FI codes??
     
  3. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    No codes. I assume you mean the flashin FI light?

    It 70 degrees in my shop and there was 6 hours between the start attempts. Also, reving the motor will clean the cylinders out, it just got worse when I did it.
     
  4. Fizz

    Fizz New Member

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    This problem is probably beyond me, just thought I'd chime in to say Hi to someone who shares nearly the same name and initials as me. My first name's Westley (yes, a silent "T") and last name's Julio (your middle name, if any, wouldn't happen to being with a "J" would it?) . :biggrin:

    I'd give the bike the good ol' spark check (like Squirrel said), yank a plug and touch it to a ground with the boot on and crank the motor over a few times (in a dust/debris free environment of course, after the plug wells have been air blasted clean). If no spark, found your problem. If spark isn't the issue, in your shoes I'd start slamming my head into an exhaust pipe.

    On a fuel injected bike that was running not too long ago I don't think fuel delivery would be a problem, K.I.S.S. method now, no concussion later. :yield:
     
  5. John451

    John451 Member

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  6. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    I would call the Honda service department and tell them the problem, and see what they have to say. I would also go as far as suggesting that you want them to check it out, but you have no way of getting the bike to them, other than riding it in. It could be that one of the mechanics there, or the service advisor, has seen this problem before. I've noticed that service departments can be unusually cooperative, depending on cirumstances.

    I think that squirrelman called it with fouled spark plugs. Do you know, or can you find out, the history of the bike, i.e. has this happened in the past? Perhaps new plugs were installed shortly before it was sold...

    When you pull them, check the heat range. Perhaps a hotter range is in order. I have one older four cylinder bike that is quite happy to occasionally foul at least one spark plug, on start up, with the colder range plugs in it. Granted, it is a 1983, but it is really finicky about spark plugs.

    The only other thing that occurs to me is the fuel itself, as in is it contaminated? I mention this because other than cold spark plugs or a progressively failing ignition system, that is the only thing left that would affect all four cylinders, other than a clogged air filter. Definitely a long shot, since it was running fine.

    Sometimes, I really miss breaker points and carburetors...
     
  7. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    All very good suggestions.

    I'll check the plugs and check for spark. I swapped out the fuel last night.

    I purchased the bike from a Honda shop in Michigan and they were very heplful so I'll be giving them a call this morning.

    Thanks guys,

    Wesley J
     
  8. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    A PM from another helpful member:

     
  9. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    The other thing that I wonder about it the crank position sensor. Again, dont know how to test it....
     
  10. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    Chatted with the tech at the Honda shop that I purchased from. His suggestion on where to start after what I've already tested is the plugs. I guess the cold enrichment circuit is quite agressie on the VFR so may have fouled plug as some have stated above. I'd be surprised but I'm attempting to be optomistic.

    Off to my shop

    Wesley J
     
  11. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    try switching plugs between a running and non-running cylinder after bike is somewhat warmed up....the physically HOT plugs will not foul as easily as cold plugs, and this remedy is a time-honored 2-stroke rider's trick.
     
  12. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Hmm just a thought, sounds like it's running out of fuel, so Fuel pump maybe, a fuse? getting worse as it tried to run? thats where I'd look then if not that check spark to the plugs. I'm thinking here you have spark, sounds like a fuel thing to me, but then I don't have that version, all though an engine is an engine, needs fuel and spark, after that it gets tricky, damn those 6th gen. LOl ;)

    Oh yea if you have a good shop that will listen to you, give em a try, never hurts to ask.
     
  13. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    Hey, that's six generations to develop highly complex problems! None of those low-level sissy problems for us, pal!:smile:
     
  14. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    the more i read on this site about FI sensors, fuel maps, thermostats, wiring issues, etc, the HAPPIER I am with my low-tech '97 carbed 750 VFR or my '86 700s !!!!!

    Reliability and ease of maintenance seem to have both drastically declined with the years!!
     
  15. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    Well, I'm very pleased to say that it simply was fouled plugs. I have to say that it's a first for me on anything but a 2 stroke.

    All the rest of my bikes arent nearly as finiky. I'm going to have a look inside my PCIII to see just what tune is in there. Maybe it's a little wonky.

    Thanks for all of your help on this, I really appreciate it.

    I was so pleased I finally got my ass in gear and installed my HID's. Wow, completely rediculous....

    Wesley J
     
  16. fxstc111

    fxstc111 New Member

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    WRONG!
    One thing you should learn about HONDA, VERY COLD BLOODed, meaning when you start a V-4 or V-2 etc. either in cold or hot climates, never grab the throttle and rev the engine before your engine is warm. warm. hot!

    Bet all your plugs were fouled.
     
  17. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    Were the old plugs the proper heat range? Inquiring minds want to know...
     
  18. Wesley J

    Wesley J New Member

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    fxstc111, thanks for the info. Like I said, this is new ground for me. First Honda since my last VFR ('86 back in '90) and have never had this problem and yes, all 4 plugs we fouled....

    Lgn001, what is the proper heat range?

    Thanks guys.

    PS I now sit in fear affraid to start the poor wimpy little Honda. Soon I'll be plugging a battery tender into it and checking the air pressure daily ;-)
     
  19. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    The shop manual calls out NGK IMR9B-9H, or DENSO VNH27Z. There are no alternate ranges listed, i.e. hotter or colder.
     
  20. nozzle

    nozzle New Member

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    NGK has a need techsheet that is worth skimming, or reading if you are snowed in.

    it answers what is heat range wrt plugs....
    "It's important to remember spark plugs do not create heat, they only remove heat. The spark plug works as a heat exchanger
    by pulling unwanted thermal energy away from the combustion chamber, and transferring the heat to the engine's cooling
    system. The heat range is defined as a plug's ability to
    dissipate heat
    ."
     
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