Ghost says "Lets learn about batteries!"

Prelude: Ghost is an automotive engineer for new product development. Ghost specialize in engines, transmissions, plastics, and electronics. Ghost rides a motorcycle to offset his inner nerd... and often talks in 3rd person.

I gave both upcoming analogies earlier… I like them so I will use them again.

What’s a battery do?
Besides make your bike go, a battery is a storage device for energy. Lets be clear about one thing. Power does not go through your Battery. Keeping with the term “storage device” I will use this analogy.

Take an ordinary water bucket. Put two 1 inch holes in the bucket near the top, 180 degrees apart from one another. Now, imagine a tube from one of those holes which flows and make a wheel turn, kind of like a water mill wheel. Now the down stream of that wheel, has a “Y” split in it, and the water wheel powers a small pump in one of those legs to pump water back to the other 1 inch hole in your bucket.

This is as basic as it gets to understanding how the battery, (bucket), and the bike motor (wheel), and the alternator, (small pump), all work to keep the electrical circuit going.




Now, for electricity, this analogy doesn’t really work, since the water is material, and that mass of liquid must go somewhere. But the general idea is, if the bucket has a hole in it, (which would be the same as a continuity disconnection or increase in resistance), the water level drops to the point where the battery can no longer take a charge, and thus can no longer support the rest of the system.

So how does a battery hold a charge?

Well, actually it doesn’t. I know, Ghost is confusing people again… if a battery is left to sit, and is not re-charged, it will loose ~ 1% of its capacity per day. Batteries are constructed of basic elements. Water, lead, a housing, applied first charge, and some sulfuric acid. Putting two pieces of lead in container of sulfuric acid will do nothing. But if you apply 3 amps to one terminal, it now and forever, becomes a positive potential. Now connect a ground or negative wire to the other terminal, and you have electricity, flowing through the solution. The electricity will cause a chemical reaction of the lead, and it will coat the terminal with a brownish substance called lead dioxide. Lead dioxide has a positive potential. And since the other lead piece is maintaining a gap, the lead dioxide (chemically, not materially) moves its positive electrolytes to the free led, which then produces lead sulfate. Your battery will not produce 2A of power.




Yay! You are now a GENIUS! Putting (6) of these 2A cells together in a series will yield an output of 12A. You must apply more than 1% of the original capacity, in order to maintain the charge. I.e. 12V @ 12% = 1.44V thus your motorcycle out put from your alternator and R/R yields ~ 14.4V

Ok ok, so you know how to make a battery, big deal. My battery is a “Maintenance Free” Gel battery.

HA! I laugh. All batteries in the world, operate from a chemical reaction. Whether you use Sulfuric Acid, and lead, or if you use gels which are chemically engineered power liquids to retain the water, and sulfuric acid, the basics are still the same. You can not just simply put in more of one item or the other, and expect it to change. Case in point… Kool-Aid.

What?! Ghost, you have lost it now.

Perhaps. Kool-Aid powder mixed with Water, makes my tummy go yummy. But if you add too much water, or too little, … well I think you get my point. Battery chemical composition is much the same. There is very little differing from the basic formula.

So whats the difference in Gel vs Water Batteries?

Cost and mechanical performance. MECHANICAL! You can turn a gel cell battery up side down, and it will continue to work. If you do this with a water cell, you will first get wet, then it will burn a little, maybe require a pop-cycle and band-aid, and your battery is junk. So for motorcycles, if you plan to drop your bike much, stick with the gel. Also, the water will evaporate much quicker, so there is periodic maintenance you must do to ensure its life. If you’re lazy… stick with the Gel. Only, know you will pay quite a bit more for this.

Well, can’t I use any water to fill a water battery?

To this I would say… “been listening to 02VFRRider again have you?” Yes, proper English etiquette will say you “CAN”, but you really really shouldn’t. Distilled water only. You already have all these free floating particles in your fluids, and all these chemical reactions. Do you really want some bleach, or carbon black, or fecal matter floating in your battery… and try to hold a charge? Crazy people.

How to Distill water

Clean good water to convert to sulfuric acid only.

Ok, Ghost, you are so smart… and a handsome man. What about cost? Should I buy the cheap battery, or the expensive one…cause the expensive one says it lasts longer.

Yet again, I cry myself to sleep due to the stupidity of the general public. A battery is rated by what is known as CCA or Cold Cranking Amps. As I indicated earlier, the chemical composition is roughly the same on all batteries. Lets go back to the Kool-Aid shall we? Here is the exception. A bigger jug of water, and a larger amount of Kool-Aid powder will make the Kool-Aid last longer. Its not better. Just lasts longer. So, in batteries, if you want a battery of the same voltage to last longer, it should be in a bigger container. Bigger batteries, producing the same voltage, last longer. There is more surface area of the lead, and more sulfuric acid. If you look at a battery that is 6inches by 4 inches by 6 inches and one says 4000 CCA where as another sitting right next to it, probably the same case manufacturer, same size, but a different sticker, and says 9000 CCA, which has a much higher price…you are paying for nothing more.

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!! Ghost now we all KNOW your off your crazy pills, and your cheese has slipped off your cracker.

Batteries are rated by CCA based upon how well that particular model lasted during product testing. Which is taken by average, and which is also not only testing the battery, but all the connections, plastic housing, wiring, relays, starters, etc etc. UNLESS! You want to find a way to but a 12 inch by 14 inch by 12 inch battery on your bike, it will crank for just as long as the cheap one.

In summary,
Maintain your water battery, with good distilled water, and don’t turn it over. Charge it every night, and it will last just as long as a Gel battery. For most people, its simply faster and easier to spend the extra coin to not worry about the gel batteries. Its really a matter of preference.

R/R and batteries:

Back to the analogy of the bucket and water wheel. Suppose the small pump (aka your R/R) burns up, goes faulty, is disconnected…etc, whatever; a good battery will not be harmed. A battery, on its way out the door, may take it as a final kick in the pants.

One last simple analogy; a (2) size “D” battery operated flashlight. Its got two batteries in it. We will label one of them “Battery”, and the other “Alternator”. If the battery dies, the Alternator will eventually not be able to keep up, and the light turns off. If the alternator dies, the battery will continue to keep the flashlight going, until the battery is drained, and the light will eventually turn off. Nothing blows up. The on off switch didn’t explode. The light bulb didn’t turn into confetti. It just stopped. Now, replace the word “light” with “bike”.

R/R don’t blow up batteries. Batteries are either de-charged by over charging, undercharging, or the electrolytes over populate the cells, and creates bridges inside the battery.

**Q and A time**
How long should you “attempt” to crank your engine?
~ 2 seconds.
What if it doesn’t even try?
Choke, or fuel isn’t right, dead battery all together… sorry.
What if its an old engine, (20 yrs old)?
~2 to 5 seconds MAX.
Why do you pause after 5 seconds?
To let the heat build up in the chamber, and the gasoline fumes rise, so when you respark it may ignite better.
So, nothing to do with a good battery?
Nope! (a GOOD battery)
What voltage is considered min to start a motorcycle, given it’s a good battery?
~11.4V min.
Whats the max?
~16V (your battery wont take any more, its impossible. Though, note, constantly overcharging your battery, is the same as undercharging it… makes it weak and reduces the life)
What is the running (with AC generator going), voltage?
~13.2V to 16V
If you take care of a battery, as if it were a potential BOMB, how long could it last?
Typical battery could last ~3 yrs if properly maintained.

Love your Battery. Own a meter.
Ghost out.

First update - Added Q&A section

 

Ghost,

If you dropped your BIG ego and your attempts at comedy, this post would have been perfect! Stick to what you do good please!

Oh, and George Costanza called, he wants his "third person" talk back. You have disgraced it beyond means. Anymore abuse and the Seinfeld lawyers will be calling you!

Thank you for the very informative post. You know your stuff about batteries!

 

Thanks Ghost, very usefull yet very funny!

 

nobody like a know it all...................LOL nice write up....

 

dunno if im allowed to self bump, but Ive seen a few "battery" questions recently, and I made an update.

 

bump as many times as you want....maybe michael will pin it so it stays at the top of the lists

 

So. You should reasonably expect three or so years out of a battery. Car batteries are said to be good for five or so and that has been fairly accurate in my experience. But I am well past four years on my factory instralled battery and am showing no signs of failure. I guess I am really on borrowed time now. ANd I have done zip as far as maintainance goes on my battery. No tender or anything. WOuld it be safe to say that constant use of the bike means the battery may last longer? Should O be expecting probkems and what is the likely first indication that the battery is failing?

 

When you test it across the terminals with a fairly accurate voltmeter and it tests below 12.0V a whole 0.5V or a hydrometer shows the electrolyte as bad.

 

I need to get hoppin' on maintain my deep cycles. I have 4 x 6V Trojan units that I use to power my 4K watt inverter when I'm dry camping! Gotta have my coffee in the morning!

 

Freezing rain today, stuck inside and BORED. Going to distill some water for the existing ~1995 MotoMaster Powersports Battery and see if it will take a charge. Perusing here first looking for any horror stories and found this thread informative (there have been at least 4 threads since I joined a few months ago that are answered here). So there it is.

A man's gotta eat

 

My bike has been sitting all winter, so the battery has gone low a few times. My float charger was saying it wouldn't take a full charge anymore, but I was able to get it back up to 13.2V using my battery charger with a recondition function. I highly recommend having a charger that can do the conditioning. Yeah, it's about the cost of a battery, but it charges everything better/faster. Here is what I bought.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KNMKRU8/ref=sr_rp_1?m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ie=UTF8&qid=1456428902&sr=sr-1&keywords=black+decker+battery+charger



Jose

 

Lol trailer park boys

 

Trailer Park Boys 6 year bump! lol