Stumbling and surging

Discussion in '7th Generation 2010-Present' started by chainedlightning, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. chainedlightning

    chainedlightning New Member

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    So this was odd... was leaving work tonight on the 1200, bike's been riding very nicely since I put my Z-Bomb in a few weeks ago. Go to start it up, bike idles fine, warms up a little while I put my helmet on, a nice night - about 68F. Go to leave my parking space, coming past 3k, and the bike falls on its face. I let off the gas, bike is ok, come up around 3k again, falls down. Just stumbles horribly like it's getting no gas. I come out onto the main stretch of the parking lot, and give it some gas, it stumbles for a moment, then BURSTS through 4k and takes off like someone lit dynamite inside it, front end coming up and everything. From then on, it rode completely normally. Very bizarre - anyone seen/experience anything like this?
     
  2. Seemedo

    Seemedo New Member

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    kind of along the lines of bad gas or a confused ECU?
     
  3. chainedlightning

    chainedlightning New Member

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    Honestly, I hadn't considered bad gas - I assumed a (hopefully temporarily) confused ECU... I've been going to the same gas station 99% of the time for the last 6 years and never got bad gas from them, so it hadn't even popped into my head. And if it WAS bad gas, then it was only a few drops of it that happened to sink to the bottom beacuse it ran perfectly after the surge. Still odd.
    It felt like when you purposely hit the gas and brake on a car with a fly-by-wire gas pedal - it felt like the ECU just said, "No gas for you" as I pitched forward onto the tank because I thought I was going the other way, and then pitched backwards when it surged out of nowhere. I must have looked like I was on a bucking bronco. :)
     
  4. chiller

    chiller New Member

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    I had that problem before on my track bike ... what was it ? the battery cables were not tighted down hahaha
     
  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    It's a well -known fact......

    All fueling problems were eliminated when Honda switched (1998?) from carbs to electronic, computer-controlled fuel injection, which is perfect because computers are perfect, eh ??
     
  6. lshark

    lshark New Member

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    throttle-by-lawyer !!!! (and EPA )
     
  7. soloii-74

    soloii-74 New Member

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    Sorry to hijack the thread :croc: , but that kinda sounds like a hard night bar-hopping. :drinkers: :party2: :tgif:

    ..... and now for something completely different......

    :focus:

    But seriously, even thought I'm not familiar with it's use, you may want to consider that it could be a fault in the z-bomb, since its a fairly new add-on, if the stumbling and surging is a new problem. Aftermarket electronics :suspicious: are usually not as well made as the OEM electronics. If the problem re-occurs, try disconnecting the z-bomb.

    A friend with a TL1000R kept having issues with driveability - never considered that his PC was giving him the problem. He kept trying different maps, and finally disconnected it, and voila, the problem went away. Sent the PC in to be fixed, and when it came back & was hooked up, the bike was awesome again. Sometimes things - even from a great manufacturer - just fail - this can include the oem electronics.

    Best of luck troubleshooting and fixing. :rockon:
     
  8. lshark

    lshark New Member

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    the Z-Bomb connects to the gear position switch...simply crosses the wires and attaches position 1 and 2 to #3 making the ecu run on the unrestricted 3rd gear map in 1st and 2nd...it really doesn't connect directly to the fuel system
     
  9. soloii-74

    soloii-74 New Member

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    That's cool - was just a thought. That would make the Z-bomb a non-issue. The problem then sounds more like either a fuel pump issue, ecu, or injectors. But come to think about it, a strong (ignition related) misfire can make it stumble and fall on it's face too. When the rev limiter started to break (not brake :rant:) on my autoxr, that's pretty much how it acted. Hard to trouble shoot an intermittent via the web. :unsure:
     
  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Did you check the floor mats?







    Oh, that's Toyota. Sorry, carry-on
     
  11. soloii-74

    soloii-74 New Member

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    Billy, is that you? :pound:

    - fine use of sarcasm tink :thumb:
     
  12. JumpinJack

    JumpinJack New Member

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    I suspect that the Z-bomb might not be the issue because my stock 2010 1200 developed the same symptoms. Basically between 3 and 4 thousand rpm when I throttle up there is a BIG stumble followed by more throttle than I ordered. Taking it into the shop to let them work it out as it's still under warranty. BTW this problem did not exist when I picked up the bike in May. Started noticing it on a trip to West Virginia with about 1800 miles on the clock. Also noticed that I get a LOT of bucking trying to ride city traffic at steady throttle in the same rev range. Acts like I'm cracking the throttle open and close rapidly. I suspect a bad sensor in the ride by wire system. I considered bad gas but it seems unlikely as I had 2 buddies on the trip buying the same gas at the same time without the same results. If the gas that had been in the bike on the showroom floor were the culprit it seems I would have had the problem earlier on.

    I'll follow up with results when I get them.

    BTW, I love this bike. Shit happens and I can accept that, as long as it gets fixed.
     
  13. JumpinJack

    JumpinJack New Member

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    Seems unlikely that the problem is the EPA or the small lawyer Honda inserted under the tank, as they were there from the start and the problem wasn't.
    Something has done broke!
     
  14. chainedlightning

    chainedlightning New Member

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    This is exactly the same thing, down to the miles, that is happening to me. It seems to have gone back into hiding again, though - hasn't happened in about 3 or 4 days, including this morning.
     
  15. JumpinJack

    JumpinJack New Member

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    I don't know if these bikes have some sort of OBD but I suspect they do, in which case a Honda tech should be able to retrieve error codes. If not things get a little more complex and individual components have to be tested, and if the problem has gone away it won't be found until it comes back. I work in the car world (VW) and I know that a bad drive by wire throttle position sensor will produce similar problems. The ECU is getting erroneous information about what the rider wants, less or more. Once past the suspect rev range the problem no longer exists.

    Take it to the shop.
     
  16. mlloyd

    mlloyd New Member

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    I purchased my 2010 vfr1200 in May of 2012, below is a compilation of what has been going on with my bike. Have filed two complaints with Honda and one with NHTSA. Have had the bike back to the dealership three times now.


    1st noticed hesitation and sputtering at 300-600 miles completely stock.

    Pulled up to a stop light rpm dropped and bike stalled

    7/14/12 3rd gear around 3k rpm decelerating went to roll on throttle and stumbled.

    7/14/12 1st gear around 2500 rpm 15mph rolling stop hit throttle no response/no acceleration pulled clutch revved throttle bike ran fine.

    7/21/12 5th gear 50mph around 3k rpm rolled throttle bike sputtered.

    7/21/12 1st gear 10mph going around a corner engine lost power.

    7/21/12 1st gear around 20 mph rolled throttle engine would spit/sputter lost power had to shift into 2nd and hit gas, bike responded.

    7/23/12 4th gear stumbled on acceleration. 5th gear on ramp to express way lost engine power.

    7/24/12 2,923 miles 82 degrees ambient 1st gear rolling rolling up to stop sign pulled in clutch and bike stalled.

    7/24/12 3rd gear 35mph 3k rpm sputtered like it was going to stall then took off violently.

    7/29/12 3k miles pulled up to light idle stayed at 1500 rpm.

    Hesitation in multiple gears, went around a corner in 1st gear bike spit/sputtered had to pull in clutch rev then put in second gear.

    8/1/12 84 degrees ambient temp 3rd gear about 35 mph 3k rpm bike bogged down almost died, kept turning throttle and bike took off violently.

    8/2/12 90 degrees ambient 3rd gear 35mph 3k rpm bike bogged down like it was going to stall then just took off.

    8/2/12 1st gear left stop sign uphill turn bike sputtered no engine power almost stalled.

    Dropped bike off at dealer 8/22 left for two weeks while I was on vacation. Techs rode it changed plugs looked for any stored codes. Honda rep came in rode 54 miles did not notice symptoms.

    Picked up the bike on 9/5/12 from dealership after Honda tech and dealer tech rode it and changed plugs. (Added Mobil 89 octane) Ran flawless for approximately 300 miles, on 9/13 at 8:30 am 2nd gear around a corner at about 15 mph (ambient air 70f) I rolled the throttle and noticed sluggish response (as if it were not running on all cylinders). Using Mobil 92 octane.

    9/25/12 4:15 a.m 4220miles, ambient temp 53degrees F Downshifted to 2nd gear around corner at route31 and 259 turned throttle and bike bogged down. Continued rotating throttle to try and get it to go started to go and then bogged down again, finally shifted to 3rd and bike acted normally.

    9/25/12 4:45 pm ambient temp 68 degrees F (Hess 89 Octane) 3rd gear about 40mph, 3rd gear indicator on display changed to a slash (-) stayed that way a couple seconds then changed back to 3. pulled up to the stop sign and idled at 1500rpms stayed that way until I rapped the throttle then settled at about 1000rpm. (Captured on Go Pro camera).

    9/27/12 Called Honda Motorcycle Division Customer service. Explained that I was still experiencing problems with the bike they told me to bring it back to the dealer.

    9/28/12 4:05 a.m. 46 degrees ambient (Mobil 92 Octane) 2nd gear about 3k rpm got to the apex of the turn attempted to feed in throttle and bike stumbled as if it were starving for fuel sputtered a couple of times then took off. (Captured on Go Pro camera 2:25 into video)

    Dropped the bike at dealership 9/28/12 and is still there as of 10/3/12. Seems oddly familiar to the post found on the European VFR forums.

    Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. At the moment I'm seriously considering just trading it in and picking up a new R1. Was really hoping the big Viffer was going to be my long term bike especially after spending $1600 on a corbin seat w/ backrest and a Akrapovic hi mount exhaust :frown:
     
  17. CharlesW

    CharlesW New Member

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    Mlloyd,
    Wow!
    You certainly have had more patience than I would have.
    What a nightmare.
    Chances are, I would give it a new home. (At the dealers)
    I wouldn't want to sell it to someone and I don't think I could trust it in the future.
     
  18. mlloyd

    mlloyd New Member

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    I am leaning towards leaving it at the dealers, unfortunate since my daughter loves riding with me and this bike gave me the perfect medium of sport for me and comfort for her. Have always loved vfr's since I owned my 83 Interceptor 500 at 17yrs old.
     
  19. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    With enough time and patience, it'll get fixed. Doesn't sound like your issue is a normal for the 1200. It's unfortunate and undoubtedly frustrating but shit does happen. Occasionally we find ourselves with the shoe on the other foot and wish the upset party would just give a little understanding while trying to figure the problem out. As long as the dealer continued to have a good attitude and appears to do everything they can to work through the issue, I'd keep working with them.

    I recently had a $200k machine acting weird and behaving inconsistently. We paid for a tech to sit there for two days straight. At the end of the second day, by dumb luck he found a relay that would lose good contact on one of the phases. Stupid $50 part cost everyone piles of money. It's usually the cheapest part in the chain.

    I wonder if Honda has considered changing the wire harness?
     
  20. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    try a synthetic injector cleaner first before giving up on it. no matter how careful you are you will end up with moisture in your tank just from the heat cycling of the gas tank on the bike being placed over a hot motor constantly heating and cooling your fuel. injectors dont spray H2o very well being water is 2 dense for the small pintle opening of the injector. i commonly run an injector cleaner every few tank fulls because of moisture buildup living in a colder climate. fuel injection on a bike is more finacky then a car because your tank is isolated farther away from heat on a car and having your tank over a hot engine on a bike will create moisture no matter what. i personally avoid ethanol blends but even the full premium non blended fuels will create moisture in there holding tanks underground and unfortunitely you pay for that moisture at the pump at times. moisture buildup in older carb bikes isnt so noticable because the H2o sits on the bottom of your carb bowls and if you do your own maintenance and drain them like your supposed to you will get water out of them 99% of the time.
    just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
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