Electrical problems

Right so I noticed recently (at night) the my dash & headlight goes brighter when you give it at little throttle at idle, also the dash goes dimmer with the brake light on and it will dim/brighten in time with the flashing of the indicators.

At the same time it's had a little trouble starting and for a few seconds after starting it sits at 1000ish revs rather then auto choking straight away.

All of which makes me think there's a charging issue

As far as I'm aware it's not had the wiring recall done

Any other ideas guys?

 

Just to add to the matter, my local honda dealership has just said that there isn't a recall on the wiring harness

 

Hi

Starting with the practical stuff - it would help others on here to give advice if you can quickly update your forum profile (very top right "My Profile" tab) to include the specs of your bike as otherwise people have to go hunting through past forum posts to find out what bike you are talking about.

So its a 2002 vtec ABS.

Its not worth jumping to conclusions as the power output from the RR will fluctuate a bit depending on engine RPM and loadings, so what you report is not of itself worrying. It may prompt you to do some simple checks to satisfy yourself that the battery is healthy and the RR and Stator are providing appropriate charging volts.

Basically all four elements of the charging system (battery, RR, stator and loom) need to be in good health. A fault with any one can damage one or all of the others. Something as simple as a loose battery or earth connection can result in the battery progressively draining and leaving you stranded.

Checking out the battery is the vital first step. If you have no idea how old the battery is, then this may help you work out whether its time to replace the battery.

A healthy charged battery without any load will put out around 12.7-13.2 volts. Numbers will drift down as the battery ages. However as you also have the constant drain of a datatool alarm system to contend with, I would consider fitting a replacement once the standing volts regularly hit 12.8.

If the standing volts seem fine, then skip the next bit, but if the numbers seem borderline, then you may want to carry out a fuller assessment of your battery health as follows -


To test battery: (original Yuasa type) - remove from bike and trickle charge overnight with a decent Optimate type digital charger until it is fully charged. The digital chargers won't over charge/cook the battery. So next morning ...

- End of charge volts should be 12.7-13.2V
- Connect a load to the battery (any old 21W indicator bulb should provide enough drain)
- Check voltage every 30mins or so and see how long it takes for the battery volts to drop to 12.3V
- Less than half hour = Totally dead battery - bin it!
- About one hour = Virtually dead battery - needing replacement now!
- More than one hour 30 = battery is still serviceable - but will need replacing soon
- More than two hours = Good battery.


Assuming the battery is considered good or serviceable - put it back on the trickle charger and next morning hook it up so we can check the health of the stator and RR, by monitoring the volts at the battery. First at idle and at 5,000 rpm with the bike cold, and then after a 30 minute + ride, so the bike and everything electrical is good and hot. Sometimes the stator will work fine when cold, but as it heats up the windings insulation can fail, and start to drain the battery, not charge it. Normally a healthy stator and RR should be delivering 13 - 14 volts+ at idle and between 14 and 15 volts above 2,000 rpm. It should never exceed 15.5 volts or things like headlight bulbs will blow. (Lights on/lights off should make no more than about 0.5V difference to those numbers.)


I can only suggest you speak to Honda to see if your bike was covered by (or overlooked for) a wiring upgrade recall, I think it really only applied to models sold in north America.

If the findings seem off - then get reading the following link. (OK its written for the 5th gen VFRs so items will look different/be in different locations, but the process of checking your charging system will be similar).

http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html


Hopefully the checks will confirm the electrics are fine, and it just needs you to turn off the PC and go ride your VFR:vtr2: to keep the battery topped up :smile:




SkiMad

 

I assume you mean symptoms? Unfortunately i need the bike to get work so parking It isn't an option

 

well measure voltage at battery at idle and 5k rpm and post up the voltage numbers

 

:thumbsup::mechanic: Exactly what I meant by ... "A fault with any one can damage one or all of the others".

OK if you have to use the bike to get to work etc then needs must - but IF the charging system is playing up - then the sooner you check it out and find out what's wrong the less you may end up spending on repairs. An OEM RR will cost north of £80, a OEM stator nearer £500, dead Battery ... fried loom ... blown bulbs. Costs can rack up really quick. If you have (or can borrow) a multi meter it won't take more than a few minutes to remove the seat and check the volts at the battery. If you are not sure about the results just post up.

Take care




SkiMad

 

I will do on Sunday when I should be over the missus house so i can borrow her dads one. Thanks guys =)

 

Finally got myself a multimeter today so results may be up tomorrow evening

 

Unfortunately I don't have a battery charger but I just done some tests after coming home from work.

Standing (alarm on) 12.71
Idle (Headlights on) 12.03
5k (Headlights on) 14.8

 

Havent done them yet, I'd need to wait till wednesday before i can do that

 

Sorry this is going to be a long one...

Refer to post #3. As you can see the bike is not charging properly. At least the battery is just within spec - so for now focus on Stator/RR - problem could be with either or both! Volts should however go up with the engine at idle NOT down!


Its probably easiest to check Stator. Remove right side fairing. (I think on early vtecs the RR and connection from stator is on the right side upfront (near your right knee). Disconnect the connector with three yellow? wires going to RR (its inside a semi transparent shield). We need to test AC Volts output from stator - (so ignore the connector attached to the RR) - we need to do a couple of tests on the connector coming from the stator.

Test number one is done with the bike shut down (ignition off key out).

Set multi meter to measure OHM's resistance (upside down horseshoe symbol) usually the Black test lead in Com and Red goes in the one marked with upside down horseshoe (or possibly just V). Set range to the lowest option probably around 200.

Note down the resistance between each pairing of wires on the stator plug. Reading should be about 1 ohm.
Then measure and note down the resistance between each wire and earth, put your probe somewhere on the frame like a bolt. This should be 0/NIL /not read.

Stator is probably faulty if your findings don't match above! But we can confirm with a dynamic test of AC volts output from the stator across all three possible pairings of the three yellow wires coming from the stator.

Set muti-meter to measure Volts AC. Test leads will probably be as before Black on com and Red to V. Set range to ACV 200 or nearest to that.

So with the stator lead still disconnected, start the bike and let it idle (it won't do any harm and will run off the battery for long enough).

Important you will KILL the stator if you short any of the wires together with your probes or provide a route to earth. So take your time, good lighting and a spare pair of hands is ideal.

Name the three pins A B C (does not really matter which gets what name. Record AC volts from pin A to B, Record from pin B to C, record from pin C to A. All readings should be fairly similar and all over 20volts.

Repeat this test at 5,000 rpm (hence spare pair of hands helps). All readings should be fairly similar and over 40 volts (probably nearer 60)

If recorded volts on one or more pairing at idle or at 5k rpm is significantly low then stator needs replacement.

If the stator checks out then the fault is almost certainly the RR - although I guess some sort of loom fault could be preventing the bike charging.

To test RR - this shows the basic testing process - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3mqG7f7qu8
skip to 10 minutes for the testing process. (NB your RR connector probably won't have the 6th pin)

[Meter needs to be set to diode checking - right arrow symbol with line at one end - leads black on com/Red on horseshoe]

If RR diodes and Stator check out fine then its got to be the loom

Let us know how you get on...



SkiMad - Enough now, its still snowing and it definitely time for some 12 year old The Macallan

 

Thanks man, I'll try it out on Wednesday, but as you might have seen from one of my other posts, I was having trouble with the belly pan bolts. But again. I'll see what I can do wednesday

 

Well i had a go at the 1st test that you mentioned skimad4x4 but honestly not sure if i dont it right as the meter reads 1 when it's one resistance anyways, tell me if i was doing anything wrong here's a pic:

I was "probing" the connection with the 3 yellow wires coming out (inside a plastic sleeve) and putting the probes so that it bridges it, not sure if this was right as the meter didn't move one bit, tried it with the ignition on and off, no budge. I'm a bit useless with electrical stuff as I've only done oil/coolant changes and putting new parts on my old bikes.

 

Slow down!

Sorry I can see I need to be a lot more precise in my comments.

Please don't worry about the meter showing 1 when its turned on - it should do!

What worries me is if you are trying to test the stator resistance then where you have the two probes in that picture - they are in the WRONG place. Both probes need to be pushed into the connector thing in your left hand (for now ignore the bit in your right hand!)


Give me a few minutes and I will get back with a marked up version of your picture to show where to put the probes.


In the meantime Can you tell us what the volts DC readings were across the battery terminals. See post #15 above.

Please tell us what you found?

Volts on battery with bike turned off?
Volts on battery with bike idling?
Volts on battery with Bike at 5,000rpm?


SkiMad

 

So assuming one or more of the battery terminal readings were outside the specified ranges.



I guess we can test the stator (as you already have the fairing off). We need to test between the 3 pins marked 1,2 and 3 in this picture.



Set the multi-meter up as follows

put black lead into COM
put red lead into Horseshoe
turn dial to OHMs (horseshoe) at lowest available range (so 200 would be fine).

Now check the meter works - with the probes apart the dial should show "1".
With the probes touching together the dial should show 0 or something pretty close - so 0.1-0.2 is fine (that number is the resistance in your test leads) Write down that number - we will call it "base resistance" as we need to deduct it from subsequent readings)

Assuming the meter is working correctly we are ready to check the resistance between the 3 possible pairings of the yellow wires.

Refer to the picture - I have marked the connector 1,2,3 we want to test the resistance between 1 and 2 - write down the result,
test the resistance between 2 and 3 - write down the result,
test the resistance between 1 and 3 - write down the result,

Now deduct the base resistance from all those numbers.

If the stator is OK then the results (after we deduct the base resistance) should be less than 1ohm and all should be very similar. If any of the three readings is way out - check where your probes are touching and repeat the measurements. If one reading remains well out then stator is probably toast.

If they are all similar, then one further check we should make is to test resistance between each pin (1,2 & 3 as above) and a good earth on the bike frame. So stick one probe on pin 1 and other onto a bolt, repeat with pin 2 and pin 3 - In each case there should be no reading - so your gauge will just show 1 - if there is a reading then it means there is continuity and your stator is dead.

Get back with the results. If needs be we can then move on to check the RR - but let me know the stator results first.

Hopefully we are nearly there.




SkiMad

 

Forgive my idiocy ski, I'm quite a literal person and as I said before, I'm not the best at electrics (could you tell? )

Put the bike back together now as unfortunately I have to keep it outside but ok I think I get it now, so say i put red probe on 1 and black on 2? does it matter which way round they go? But the battery tests are in post #12.

At the mo I don't have a battery charger (could change Tuesday/Wednesday) But the tests were done after a good ride home and bike was warm.

I'll try again on Wednesday as it's my next day off.