Error code 27

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by Pasty_PFC, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Error code 27 is flashing up on my bike. As far as I can tell, it is due to a faulty valve spool or connection.

    My question is, is this the actuator for the V-Tec valve operation? My guess is that they use the nomenclature to avoid confusion with other electrical windings such as the alternator stator and ignition coils.

    Secondly can anyone offer help as to where they are and how accessible they are? Are they replaceable or repairable?
     
  2. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Not much response...the street triple forum would be all over this kind of problem solving...

    So far I have located the valve spool in question. It is located directly beneath the injector rail in the v of the two heads.

    My question is, is there another? I imagine each bank of cylinders will need one of these contraptions.

    Any ideas?
     
  3. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Hmm sorry been out storming around the Alps on my Street Triple - so have only just spotted this.


    I guess you have already been through this process - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpHK7gMx2WY

    and found fault code 27 = faulty vtec spool valve or wiring

    Strangely I don't recall any previous post with this fault code, and as the vtec mechanism itself seems pretty robust I rather suspect that if the bike has not been subject to some impact engineering, then this could be down to a wiring fault. Have you had any work done on the bike recently which may have disturbed something?

    If I remember right the vtec won't engage until the PGMFI system receives a signal saying the engine temperature is warm enough. If that signal is not received no vtec. So the first thing I would look for, is to confirm if the sensor has been disconnected at some stage or if there is a broken or intermittent break in a wiring. I am not sure if the schematic here
    http://www.lifford-cooke.com/motorbiking/documents/VFR VTEC PGM-FI Diagram 2002.pdf
    helps answer your questions about what bits of the system are where?

    Good Luck and keep us posted. Meantime over this side of the pond its time for .:tea:


    SkiMad
     
  4. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Ha thought that might work!

    Thanks for the response, much appreciated.

    You have a point, it'll may well be a case of clearing the error codes. The bike has been stood for some time, there has been no recent work carried out.

    The valve spool does earth on the engine so it may well have a bad earth or as you suggest a chaffed wire somewhere. That's what I intend to look into while the bike is semi stripped. What I would like to know is if there are two of these mechanisms or just the one. Cobwebs are restricting my view...
     
  5. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Looking at the diagram I can't see why there would be more than one. Thankfully I have never had to mess with anything on the vtec system but my guess is that the vtec spool valve is the bit which is instructed to open by the PGMFI system to engage the second pair of valves in each of the cylinders. As there is only one pump, presumably there is only a need for one valve controlling its output.

    I am intrigued with this "free project", and hope you will take time soon to drop by the introductions forum and post up some photos of the bike - otherwise some folk on here won't believe it exists! It will also give Scubalong a chance to extend a formal welcome to the madhouse! It would also be good to update your forum profile (link at top of page) with your approximate location and the bike specs. That way if you do hit problems you may find someone on the forum who lives nearby is willing to swing by and help especially if you have a well stocked beer fridge!:drink:

    If nothing else messing with the Vtec system makes a pleasant change from the fun you had with that Street Triple clutch switch! Enjoy - oh yes we have spies everywhere!:spy:



    SkiMad
     
  6. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Oh right, yes I see now there is only one. The URL didn't work on tap-a-talk, I have since managed to view the diagram in safari. That makes the job half as hard!

    I wonder how it works then...my minds eye was seeing a solenoid actuated rod that would engage the second set of valves on each head when the speed sensor saw the required speed. And with the v formation of the four heads I'd have thought it'd need two actuators...so I guess I was wrong!
     
  7. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    Awesome diagram in post #3 skimad4x4, thanks.
     
  8. MrSleep

    MrSleep New Member

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    The VTEC valves work off oil pressure. The solenoid just opens a valve that sends oil pressure to those valves.
     
  9. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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  10. V4toTour

    V4toTour New Member

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    Does the V-Tec viffer suffer from a massive shudder if the valves fail to open? I had a Honda cage that I sold recently that when it reached the V-Tec open point it suddenly acted like the engine hit a wall and had a seizure. turned out to be a bad vtec oil pressure switch that I replaced that was keeping the solenoid closed, but still. Can't imagine going through that on a bike.
     
  11. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    I doubt it. If you go mad, and do crank up the revs past the vtec engagement threshold whilst the engine is too cold - then the PGMFI will simply prevent the extra set of valves being opened. Obviously the bike will still operate on 2 valves per cylinder, but will accelerate a lot slower than it would be with 4 valves per cylinder operating. So no shuddering brick wall affect - just a noticeable lack of manic acceleration until the engine internals have warmed up enough. This is of course something to be aware of, especially if tempted to make a dicey overtake whilst the bike is still running cold!

    Take care


    SkiMad
     
  12. jethro911

    jethro911 Member

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    If you have ever run your bike up into V-Tec range when it was too cold to be armed by the ECU, you would have experienced exactly what you speak of. I've done it on a couple of occasions and the absence of V-Tec is noticeable but the bike doesn't fall on it's face or anything, it's just slow.

    Oh I see that while I was typing skimad has already covered this, my apologies...


    The ECU must use a different fuel map when cold (below V-Tec) otherwise the additional burst of fuel to support the additional valves and air flow above V-Tec cut in would result in rough running as you experienced in your Honda cage.
     
  13. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    So I've had an interesting few days...when the wife allowed it!

    Cleaned the injectors using the syringe and a 9v battery method as seen on YouTube then checked the nozzle holes under a microscope for stubborn deposits or foreign particulate.

    Then I tested the V-Tec solenoid using the bike battery. Heard a positive click so seems to work ok. Cleaned all the connectors with ACF50, reassembled bike and turned it over. Engine sounds much better now.

    Next jobs are a oil service, clear fault codes and MOT. Should be on the road by the end of next week!
     
  14. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Oil change complete and error codes erased. MOT booked for Tuesday.

    I have a new problem...a knocking noise.

    When the bike is started it sounds perfect. Then when you blip the throttle and return to idle the noise starts. It's not subtle, it is very distinct. It comes from the front right hand side of the engine. First thought is the cam chain tensioner.

    Any advice? Should I refrain from riding?
     
  15. MrSleep

    MrSleep New Member

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    Cam chain tensioners do seem to be a common problem from around 30,000 + miles. How many miles do you have on your bike? They are somewhat easy to replace so that's where I would start. Knocking noises are never good and I don't think I would ride it till I fixed it.
     
  16. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Or could it be just the flapper valve noise and nothing to worry about? Can you make a short video of the noise and put it on youtube?


    SkiMad
     
  17. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    It's done nearly 90k so even if it's the second tensioner fitted it's likely it'll need replacing.

    As skimad suggested I'll try to do a video...might be pushing my skills...
     
  18. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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  19. MrSleep

    MrSleep New Member

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    That's not the flapper valve. Maybe exhaust leak but sounded too metal on metal sounding. Hard to tell from phone speakers. Maybe someone else will give a listen and be able to pin point it.
     
  20. Pasty_PFC

    Pasty_PFC New Member

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    Experts say cam chain which is an £800 job. I say ride it and see what happens...

    I plan to manually adjust the tensioners to see if I can quieten the beast.

    Since the MOT I've ridden it a bit, I can't get over how smooth and powerful this thing is. I'm starting to understand the appeal, can't wait to get it out on the open roads!
     
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