6th Gen Electrical Issues? Stumped. Need help/suggestions.

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by metallyguitarded, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    I have an '07 VFR800 that I'm concerned may have electrical issues. I've read all about the RR issues and the Honda recall for 5th Gen bikes and I've read a number of posts from 6th Gen owners having similar issues with their bikes. I've gone through a number of threads with fixes for the problem. Here's my issue:

    I commute to work (20 miles r/t) during the week and occasionally go on weekend rides through our local mountains (several hours at a time). For those times that I won't be riding for more than a few days, it stays on a battery tender in the garage. My bike has never failed to start or left me stranded. I have not experienced any issues with the headlights, turn signals, etc.. I'm not running any accessories off the bike. The battery is just over a year old. And the bike runs like a champ. Current engine oil has about 3K miles. There are no fluid leaks. But for quite a while now, I've noticed a strong burning smell coming from the bike after I arrive home.

    I've ignored the smell (I know, very unwise) until yesterday when it was so strong that my wife came into the garage afraid that something was on fire. She could actually smell it from inside the house through the screen door. I noticed it was particularly strong as well and before she even came in, I had my helmet off and nose close to the bike trying to at least isolate the area of the burning. The best I could determine was somewhere in the center. I immediately thought it must be the RR/Stator problems many have experienced.

    Today I pulled my fairings expecting to see fried connectors. In particular, I suspected that notorious 3P connector would be blackened and charred. Nothing. It looks totally fine. I disconnected it, looked inside both ends, all good. I inspected every connector I could find, left, right, front and back. They all looked fine. I disconnected and pulled the battery and checked it and the surrounding connections. Again, nothing looked burned or abnormal. I should be happy about that but the problem is, now I don't know what's causing that burning smell and I'm certain it's not something I can continue to ignore.

    Anyone else encounter something similar or, even if not, anyone have suggestions as to the cause or what I can do to further diagnose the problem? I appreciate any help/suggestions you can give.
     
  2. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I would check for oil or something dripping on exhaust if it that strong, doesn't take much. I have some neighborhood male cats that like to spray plastic, they hit my exhaust in the front, man is that every fowl. Now I put board up to protect.

    Stator is inside oil tight housing, should not be able to smell that.
     
  3. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    +1, look for something cooking off on the exhaust. Could be some road kill or some kind of debris stuck on the exhaust.
     
  4. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    Thanks gentlemen. I've give it a look. I did remove the rear fender shortly after getting the bike. I suppose it's possible that road guck is being flung onto the cans or pipes and that explains the burning smell. It's just that it happens so often it seems unlikely that that's what I'm dealing with. I'll grab a flashlight and take a really good look to see if I can find any drip spots from above.

    Good to know that I shouldn't be able to smell the stator. I'm hoping it's in good shape.
     
  5. signal

    signal Definitely Not New Member

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    check the starter fuse (30a) near the battery, that small piece of harness is notorious for melting.........
     
  6. Jayzdozen

    Jayzdozen New Member

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    Also check your stator connector. Mine burnt up once
     
  7. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    I noticed you from San Diego, which part? Maybe one of us local can swing by to take a look.
    I recall Maggot a member here having problem with 30 amp fuse connector.
     
  8. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    Have you checked your voltage, both with engine running and not running? And your voltage at higher RPM?

    What kind of smell is it? Burning plastic? Burning oil? Both of those are pretty di(stink)tive, HAR. Maybe the oil filter is leaking just a tad and dripping/being blown onto the exhaust pipe.
     
  9. hilbily

    hilbily New Member

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    like others have said check your pipes and headers. I had a plastic bag get past the body panels one day and it continued to smell even after I scraped all the burnt stuff I could see off. Smell is gone now but took some time.
     
  10. Quattro73

    Quattro73 New Member

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    If it smells like something burning, then the tips from the others should help. If it smells more like rotten eggs, then chech what FJ12rydertoo said, the charging voltage. Too high voltage will produce gas from the battery, smells awful, but not like something burning.
     
  11. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    Let's see, so far I've ruled out cat piss and rotten eggs as possible sources for the burning smell. That's a start! The connectors, including the 30A starter fuse and stator connector, have all checked out fine. Still on my list of things to check are oil leaks, melted plastic on the pipes, roadkill or any other debris trapped on the bike.

    The smell is definitely a burning smell and not the rotten egg smell described by Quattro but I should probably check the voltage anyway. If for no other reason than to know that my charging system is healthy. I'm really hoping this is nothing more than burning oil or debris, maybe even chain lube, and nothing more serious.

    I appreciate all the responses and suggestions. Oh, and thanks for offering to stop by Scubalong. Or, were you volunteering Maggot for the job? I could see that now, "Honey, I'd like you to meet Maggot. He's here to help me figure out what's going on with the bike. How'd we meet? Oh, Scubalong introduced us." I can see her just rolling her eyes and saying something like, "Okay, 'Metallyguitarded' (finger quotes, of course), make sure you play nice and clean up your mess when you're done."
     
  12. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    Your'e lucky, no cat piss!, Actually it comes from another gland and it is far more concentrated, for marking territory, luckily my guy doesn't do it, but feral cats do.

    We are all waiting to find out the culprit!
     
  13. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    This may be a longshot, there could be something in the exhaust. As in rodent. It sounds crazy but they have a way of ending up in the weirdest places. If you've done a thorough inspection & can't find anything. Consider removing the exhaust after the cat. Blown some compressed air through & see if anything comes out. Use a screen to catch anything that may come out. Or if you have access to an automotive style borescope, have a look inside the pipes.
     
  14. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Maybe an overflow rubber hose has moved into contact with the exhaust. I found the fuel tank overflow hose lying burnt through on the rear headers. From the condition it had been there quite a while.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    I read this and immediately thought, "THAT'S IT!" Something inside me just knew it. It had to be. I went back out to the garage, flashlight in hand, and nothing. Damn it! Followed the pipes and all the overflow hoses and no sign of any contact or melting. Still, thanks for the shot of adrenaline (and hope). The search continues. My plan now is to check the charging system with a multimeter to see what I learn from that. I'm going to dump the oil and put in some clean stuff. I need new tires so I'm going to remove the wheels then have a shop remove the tires, bearings, valve stems, etc. then drop the wheels off to be powder coated. Once I get the wheels back, the tires mounted and balanced, I'll remount them and see what happens with the burning smell. When I can afford it, I plan to go ahead and replace the R/R and get new wiring via the VFRness even though that doesn't seem to be the problem. From everything I've read trying to figure out this burning smell, it seems like it's an inevitability so I might as well replace things now before it acts up. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll let you know if and when I ever do figure out what the heck is going on.
     
  16. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    I had time to kill this morning so I took another look at my connectors trying to find the source of the mysterious burning smell. Again, no signs of burning or discoloration on the connectors themselves but there is discoloration/possible burning on a couple of the rubber protective boots. Makes sense that that could be causing the smell although they're in different locations from where the smell is the strongest. I took a few photos and would appreciate any feedback you guys want to give.

    Here's a shot on the right side, just minor discoloration/burning(?) but no sign of damage to the wires.

    IMAG0781.jpg IMAG0782.jpg

    Although I didn't post photos of the connectors, I pulled them apart and checked them carefully and they're good.

    Now, on the left side, there's much more pronounced discoloration/burning(?) that has me concerned but, again, the connector looks fine.

    IMAG0783.jpg IMAG0784.jpg IMAG0785.jpg IMAG0787.jpg

    How much discoloration on those covers is normal and to be expected? It looks to me like they're doing their job of protecting the connectors from external heat and the condition of the connectors suggest there is no overloading problem going on. Any reason to think otherwise? I'm going back and forth on whether to pony up the $200 for a new R/R and VFRness. Other than the smell, I've had no starting, riding or charging issues.
     
  17. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    Man, that is really strange. That discoloration is coming from heat, and pretty high heat, but the connector looks undamaged. Which seems unlikely considering how burnt the cover looks. Maybe you need to take it out for a long enough ride to heat things up, without the bodywork. Then you can pull to a stop, reach down there and see where the heat is coming from. Something sure ain't right.
     
  18. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    OK I have held off commenting on this as it looked like you already had plenty of others who were pointing you in precisely the direction I would have.

    But your two most recent posts make me unsure where things stand. So here is my 2p:


    First off those pictures (especially the 3rd one) showing the dark brown scarring on the plastic connector boots is a fairly sure sign that something is not right. When new the colour of those boots is a consistent yellow - and on my 2007 despite approaching 100K those boots are still clear and yellow! My guess is that the weird smell you detected is due to heat from excess current flows starting to burn the plastic, and that sort of damage is usually due to a defective RR.

    Hence my first thought was you have a charging system issue. I see this has already been suggested by others in posts #8 and #10 above. So if you have not already done so, I think it is time to rule out problems with the charging system once and for all.

    In post # 15 you mention that you were going to get out the multi-meter and check the voltage, but at the end of post #16 you state you don't have charging issues. So am I right in assuming you reached that conclusion after running through the drill as described in post #9 on this thread http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures

    AND you remembered to do those checks TWICE - once with the bike cold and a second time after the bike was really hot straight after a long ride - as sometimes diodes and insulation on windings can fail when they get hot but may check out OK when they are cold?

    Assuming the charging system checked out OK, then I suggest you need to start looking for extraneous causes - like a plastic bag or something plastic melted to the manifold, engine block or other mega hot component on the bike which has somehow got something plastic pressing against it. Hopefully it should be possible to locate that sort of cause by taking the bike for a long ride and as soon as you get back put the bike up on its centre stand and quickly remove the fairings. Then re-start the bike and quite literally follow your nose/ use a flashlight to look for any signs of smoke.

    Good luck - let us know how you get on.



    SkiMad
     
  19. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    I was afraid someone would say that but grateful you did. Still odd that it would put off enough heat to damage the boot to the extent shown in the photos yet leave no visible damage to the wires or plastic connectors.

    That would be a fair assumption given what I wrote but it would be incorrect. As of yet, I haven't done the drill only because I don't own a multi-meter. I'll pick one up in the next few days and do the drill. Thanks for the link! I'm guilty of assuming I don't have charging issues because the bike has performed flawlessly, starting every time, no surging, no dimming lights, etc.. I realize that's a bad assumption to make and I'll do an actual check of the system as soon as I get my hands on a multi-meter.

    By now, you know the answer to this! I'll be sure to do as you suggest and I'll report back. I should have my wheels back on by Sunday and I'll do the checks then. I appreciate the thoroughness of your post. It was truly helpful.

    One thing is clear from your post and that of FJ12rydertoo - as FJ wrote, "Something sure ain't right."
     
  20. metallyguitarded

    metallyguitarded New Member

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    Here is "the drill" as described in the post linked by skimad4x4 in post #18 above. I have a few questions hopefully one of you can answer?

    Steps: ---
    - Recharge battery overnite - then to take it to Autozone or similar to load test. -- Good? Bad? – An iffy battery can fake you out and act like a bad R/R. Buy new if needed.

    - With good battery fire it up, warm up for a minute or two.

    These are R/R quick checks---
    --- With voltmeter at battery posts get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 13ish min idle and in 14s at revs. (if in the 12s at idle, check at about 1900rpms instead. Its not unusual for the system to be in discharge at idle.

    I'm assuming this is as simple as touching the positive probe to the positive post on the battery and the negative probe to the negative post. Yes, I'm a simpleton. Especially when it comes to electronics. I appreciate detailed instructions because I'm pretty scared of electricity ever since I was electrocuted as a kid by an old plug-in fan of all things.

    - Check stator - These tests are done checking the connector that goes to the stator. (Engine off)
    1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms.

    - 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity. -- 3 separate checks. (Connector still apart, engine off)

    - 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more. Again – 3 readings- (Again, connector apart) Repeat hot.

    This last part, that says to crank it back up but set the meter to AC volts - This means I'm to set my multi-meter to read AC volts, put the probes inside the connector (A to B, B to C, and C to A) while the bike is running, and the readings for A to B, B to C, and C to A, should EACH start off around 15 to 20v and climb to 50v +. Is that what I should expect to see both at idle and at 5K rpm? And isn't that six readings? A to B at idle, B to C at idle, C to A at idle, then A to B at 5K rpm, B to C at 5K rpm, and C to A at 5K rpm?

    Finally, the direction to "repeat hot," is that for the entire drill starting with the R/R through the last step of the stator check or just for the last step of the stator check? Thanks!
     
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