Gen 5 vs Gen 6 for fast riding / track days

Took my Gen 5 for a run (in a very novice group) around a local track. It was great fun, but I felt like I was having to work really hard in the turns, and the bike was too. I was chatting with a mate today who is pretty handy on his GSXR and a good track day rider. He mentioned that he was in the intermediate group on track recently and was passed by a Gen 6 VFR - he tried to catch it but couldn't keep up! So, if a Gen 6 can go that well around a track, can a Gen 5 be as good? Or were changes made to the Gen 6 that would not be cost effective to replicate in a Gen 5? Thx!

 

Whoever was on the gen 6 was probably an excellent rider. There are slight differences in suspension, but nothing major. If you feel as though you are having trouble in the turns, I would suggest suspension mods, maybe raising the forks in the triple tree, and a more V shaped tire.

My personal opinion, the engine alone makes the 5th gen better for track days. Gen a Jaime Daugherty suspension and you're set.

 

Spend some time and money setting up the suspension. The stock setup is horribly inadequate for anything more than spirited street riding. Get a shock sprung for your weight, and also has adjustments. Get the forks valved and sprung for your weight. Lastly, shim up the rear suspension to quicken turn in. She'll feel like a whole new bike.

 

I wouldn't adjust the forks in the tree as you'll give up ground clearance. I recently had this issue on a track day. To accomplish the same thing, just put 2 washers in between the top of the shock mount and the frame. You'll get the same geometry change as well as gain more ground clearance.

However, I do agree on a Jamie Daugherty shock if he'll ship internationally. Just that one change transformed the bike. I'm gonna try to get him to do my forks over the winter.

 

Oops! Didn't pay attention to the fact he was in the UK. I am sure there is someone over there that can do similar work. Maybe not know the VFR as well as Jamie though.

 

Had a look on Jamie's website. Will just the rear (929) shock alone be ok, or would I need to do both the shocks and forks to make a noticable difference?

 

As of now, I only have the shock and it has transformed the bike. But I am also a bigger guy, 6'4" 245 lbs, so pretty much any OEM suspension is very inadequate. I Plan to do the forks this winter.

 

impressive upgrades!

to increase the ground clearance and drop the front slightly, (with the standard shock) would winding on a couple clicks more pre-load help?

 

Don't know much about suspension, but the answer is yes and no. You will not increase the ride height without you on the bike, but you will decrease the sag when you get on it. Unfortunately the spring may then be wound too tight to play nicely regarding handling.

 

I found that a simple shim to raise the rear accomplished two important things. First it made the bike turn in better and second it helped with the inadequate cornering clearance. But there are so many variables including your skill level. With a simple 10mm shim in the back and good rubber a stock 5th gen will entertain you for quite some time. If you get more serious and in your opinion have reached the limits of your bike such that investments in suspension are called for, it's time to buy a 600 super sport. They are plentiful, cheap, and fast with tons of aftermarket support. You could spend a lifetime finding the limits of true sport bike and be safer and money ahead IMHO.


Here is a good shot of my 5th gen in a fast right hander and you can see the brake pedal sticking down. It isn't touching in this picture but in some of the other turns it would and eventually it had a nice taper on it. All due to limited ground clearance even after the shim was installed. Other parts dragged too but this picture shows how the bike just wasn't put together for really hard track time. My Ducati had no such issue!



Here is the same corner and you can see how far I need to get off the bike so stuff doesn't drag.

 

Could be something as simple as bad tires....many different possibilities.

 

What rpm are you running in the corners? Should be between 7-10k. The gyroscopic effect of the crank helps in how the bike handles. The higher the better (within reason) but the more sensitive you need to be with throttle. We use a 6mm shim on top of the rear shock on the XX's for faster handling. Changes rake. Both the VFR and XX are very similar.

 

Great pics btw. I aspire to such lean angles!

Are the shims easy to come by (ie any particular shims recommended for the VFR?) and are there any down-sides to shimming the back end?

Many thanks

 

Corner around 5k to 7k - so need to be running it higher I think. How does the gyro effect of the crank help handling btw? Just curious.

 

Just like your front and rear wheel. Same thing. The faster they spin the more effect. Helps balance the bike. Ever play with a kids gyro and turn it on it's side and it stays straight/balanced on your finger. That crank and half the rod is centrifugal force with mass. As long as it's spinning in the direction of the wheels it adds to the over all gyroscopic effect that bikes have.

No I'm not scientifically knowledgeable of the exact reason/facts. I do know it works. Take a medium corner at a good clip healed over 35* or so at 5000rpm and feel the bike as far as crisp balance. The do the same at 8000rpm (or higher) and see if you notice a difference.

 

I've figured out that if you want a fast bike in the corners, you should just get a CBR. The VFR is great for on-road fun and a few playful track days, but these bikes are too heavy and too underpowered to make a serious stand against other Super sport bikes.

 

I would simply say that any bike is fun at speed, but a VFR is not a track toy.

Take your VFR to the track to learn how to ride it well, not be competitive. If competition is your goal, then buy something else.

Jose

 

Lots to consider now armed with some good gen from the forum! Thanks for all your responses