VF1000R cam oiling

Hi all, I am just starting a resurrection project on an 86 VF1000R. I'm well aware of the cam oiling issues on the 83/84 750s, but don't know if its as big of problem on the 1000s? I see V4Market has the oiling kits, but only mentions the big Sabres and Magnas.

Yesterday and pulled the carbs and cam covers. Cams having only very minor scoring, nothing that concerns me.

The bike has about 21K miles on it, and is complete (I have the tail section and set cowling too), but pretty rough cosmetically.

 

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/v4_cams_what.html

 

It is a huge problem on those engines too. Lots of myths out there, the truth is if your bike is a Honda V4 made between 1983 and 1986 (and some 1987's too) you are affected. For decades people a grabbed onto every little shred of difference to justify their bike wasn't going to have a problem. Unfortunately, ignorance isn't bliss in this case.

I've got some ruined VF1000R rockers if you want some! My suggestion is to upgrade the oiling system to prevent any problems in the future.

 

Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

 

It's not only the cam lobes you need to fret about, as the camshaft bearings may turn blue or severly grooved if run with dirty oil, insufficient oil, or from dry starts and high rpms.

 

:biggrin-new::eek-new::lemo:

 

Put some decent oil in it (synthetic), get the valve clearances set correctly then go ride it and have fun. Who gives a crap if the cams go, just have fun with it and don't worry about it. Check them every 500-1000 miles if it worries you. Then you will catch it early and can change the cams/rockers out and start over. It's not like these bikes are collectors items with any value to them. Ride the damn thing and have fun. Say you get 10K plus miles before you have any problems....you probably got your moneys worth out of it at that point huh?

There are threads on this forum with bikes with the oil mod that still had cams fail. I believe the article posted by Grey is the answer, not oiling problems. Buy yourself an extra set of valve covers and cut some windows out and lets see how much oil is flying around up there while running. Has anyone ever done that? Might not be very scientific but should still give you an idea if you're having obvious oil shortages up top.

 

I completely understand what you are saying. I'm not actually "worried" about it, but was just curious if the VF1000R had the same issues as the Gen1 750s. I don't know if I'll add an oiling kit or not.

Back in the day, my first "nice" bike was an 85 Sabre 700, purchased in around 87. I rode it two years, put 20K miles on it, and never had a lick of trouble. Next I had a Gen 2 VFR700 and put 35K on that, and it too was flawless.

I haven't decided what I'll do with this thing for sure. I just like projects (I have much newer bikes for daily drivers). I just finished up resurrecting a CB750F, did a pair of Gen 1 750s not long ago. Tinkering on 80s bikes is what I do for R/R. I'd sorta like to make a "mutant" like bike, with USD forks, single sided swingarm, etc etc, but first I need to get it tuned up and running well.

 

All gen 1's from what I understand, but isn't yours a gen 2? I thought all the issues were fixed when they went to gear drive cams?

I got my '84 700 for under $500, in very good/excellent condition cosmetically. 10,550 miles and had been sitting for some time. Knew I was taking a chance with the cam issue but for the price figured it was worth the chance.

Turns out it has one cam lobe showing very minor pitting, after thinking about it for a while I just decided to ride it and keep an eye on it. I've checked it every 100 miles and there is no change yet but I've only put 400 miles on it so far. I'm going to extend my checks to 500 miles and not worry about it.

If the bad spot is obviously getting worse in 500 miles, or 1,000, or whatever, I'll decide what to do then. I bought an extra set of cams just in case. Or I may just send my original cams and rockers to megacycle and get it taken care of for good. $1,200 to have the cams and rockers done.

If these bikes were worth a lot of money it would be different, but as it is they just aren't.

 

This was the point of my question. I wasn't sure if the 1000s or the gear drive models were affected, but apparently so.

 

Ok so what is it that makes a bike sought after and wanted by collectors

 

Good question. I do think the VF1000R is borderline collectible. Clean ones go for pretty good money, if you can find one. I got the above honey for $850

 

If the buyer owned, or wanted to own, that model when he was High School/College age and is now 40-50ish and can now afford it and will spend the money to get it.

Of course there is more to it than that...but....that does seem to be a big reason certain models of cars/trucks/bikes become collectible.

 

For sure the 1985 VF1000 chain drive had the problems.....

http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/34223-Son-of-a-b*tch!

.....but from everything I have ever read the gear drive versions are safe.

 

Yes! I think that sums it up quite well. Dating myself, I graduated in 87, and in the last 5 years my workshop has seen 2 VF750Fs, this 1000R, a GS1100E, a CB750F, and there is also an arcade game loaded with 80s games. Everythinng I loved when I was a sophmore in HS, but couldn't have!

 

+1

This coming from Captain 80s.

 

Larry at BLS has always maintained it was the machining, paraphrasing with some words taken off the net:
Honda tried to machine the cylinder heads on the cheap by not line-boring the cam axes. Rather than boring with the caps bolted in place, they milled the bearing surfaces and the caps separately and hoped it would all work out when a randomly selected cap was bolted to a randomly selected head. The oiling problem often cited wasn't the basic cause, though better oil flow was apparently a satisfactory workaround.

The R was line bored from what I know, however I still put an oil kit on mine.

 

Oil flow was not the big problem. Poor casting of the cams was the culprit. That explains why some are effected and some aren't. When Honda was replacing them under warranty, you would run the risk of getting a replacement from a bad batch which further led people to believe it must be the oil supply. There is so little oil that rides under and around the cams that adding 10 more quarts to the top end isn't going to change the film thickness between the lobe and the follower. Lack of oil does not cause the pitting. When 2 bits of rotating metal touch without oil, there are gouges/scrapes. The pitting comes from imperfections under the surface in the casting process. Once the pitting gets bad enough, you then start to see the scraping and eventual follower damage. All the oil in the world is not going to stop the scrapes when the pits have opened up and now have a sharp ridge.

The oil mod developed in the 80's was an attempt to solve a problem that wasn't really there when folks didn't really know what was happening. Oil kit sellers have never shown evidence to back up their claims, no flow numbers, no head temp numbers, no infrared photographs, nothing. I don't blame people for thinking that when one sees metal wearing in a motor but it simply is not why these cams failed. If you want peace of mind then certainly add one. If you have 20k miles on it and it looks that good, you have a good batch of cams and can likely see 100k miles with proper maintenance. If oil flow was an issue, you would NEVER have seen 20k. I have over 100k on 1 of my R engines and it looks just fine, as does the other 6 engines I have as well as the 3 F engines. Not one with cam problems. I will be restoring 3 R's in the next few years and none will get an oil mod.

Read Nixon's cam story, it is THE myth-free conclusion on the issue. Then start getting the rest of the bike back in shape. They are getting more desirable every year and it won't be long before a nice shape R will be pretty pricey. Keep us updated.

 

+1 same here.