Top Box Bolts Failed :-(

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by lollasch, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. lollasch

    lollasch New Member

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    Hi All

    I purchased my first full sized bike, a 2008 Honda VFR800, in mid 2013. I loved the idea of having something that was sporty and comfortable for longer rides. My bike came with a genuine Honda top box which I loved having for convenience, however, after two weeks of having the bike, 3 of the 4 mounting bolts for the top box failed and the mount that the 4th bolt was fixed in snapped off entirely. The top box fell, scratched the tail of the bike, swung into one of the exhausts dinting it and then hit the road and got gouged up badly.

    I was (luckily) in a roadwork zone at the time of failure and driving at a reduced speed limit. The box was not overloaded. I was really upset when this happened and have only just got around to posting about it to you guys. I wanted to know if this is a common failure amongst VFR riders? The top box is fairly heavy on its own and when mounted to the bike it hangs out the back like a cantilever, amplifying the load on the mounts. I don't trust the design any more!

    Pics attached show the damage done.

    Thanks! IMG_20140309_185431.jpg IMG_20140329_165855.jpg IMG_20140329_165910.jpg IMG_20140329_165922.jpg
     
  2. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    Without better knowledge, I would really suspect that bike has been dropped with a heavy load in the top case. Either that, or the PO left out some spacers or something that took up slack to keep the top case from shaking around, in which case, fatigue probably finally cause this failure. I do not have a top case BTW. Just speculating.
     
  3. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    BTW...welcome to the site.
     
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    If this is a common failure, there will be feedback. Don't expect Honda Inc. to own up to this.
     
  5. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Sorry about your rear box :Cry:
    If you decided not to use the rear box
    I am interested in the rear carrier aka rear rack :rolleyes:
     
  6. RobVG

    RobVG Member

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    When it happened was there rust along the edges where the mount tore out of the tube or was it shiny?
     
  7. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    I'll bet the PO didn't use grade 8 or better bolts. Most likely a grade 5 or lower from the hardware store. Find out what Honda recommends for bolt strength.
     
  8. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    First off - welcome to the MadHouse:welcome:!


    :focus:

    The top box breaking loose is definitely something I have never come across before, and if nothing else your post may inspire people to check the bolts on the mounting rack are not working loose.

    On my 2007 I have the full Honda OEM top-case and pannier carrier frame fitted and after almost 100,000km have never detected any sign of movement in the box - even when top box and panniers were carrying substantial loads at motorway speed. I guess that on bikes which are also fitted with the OEM pannier carrier, the shared mounting points may add some stability to the top-box support - so we may not be comparing like with like.

    IMG_4776.jpg

    Looking at your pictures it seems the bolts have sheared off. It is difficult to tell from those pictures, but the broken off remains do not look like the same colour material as the jet black Frankenbolts fitted on my bike. I wonder if at some stage, the top-box mounting rack was refitted using the wrong bolts?




    SkiMad
     
  9. RobVG

    RobVG Member

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    Two bolts broke off flush. The other looks like it may have backed out.
     
  10. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    Looks like bolts weren't hard enough, some worked loose and fatigued, the one that was in the frame part that broke off probably was the tightest and the constant movement of the bag with the other 3 loose bolts weakened the frame. I am glad to hear others haven't had same issue, I would eventually like to get a top bag for mine.
     
  11. duccmann

    duccmann Member

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    Dont think there enough support with that design. ..bet the box bounced alot....thats why I went with the Givi....it did make up for all the weight I lost with my Leo's. ..pretty heavy but have checked mounting bolts a few times and haven't found one loose. Did put some lock tight on the threads .
     
  12. grabcon

    grabcon New Member

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    I have several bikes with top cases including a 2008 VFR. What I have seen in the past on mine and others is that we try to over load them. What I have heard of on the ST1100 is that the frame actually fractures from to much weight in the top case. This does not happen a lot but it does happen. I am not sure but I want to say that there is like a 20 pound limit to the weight in the top case.

    My guess is several contributing factors. Incorrect installation, wrong hardware, was not torqued properly and too much weight in top case.
     
  13. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    +1 on this conclusion. If the box is overloaded the leverage will probably cause the frame to fail before properly installed FrankenBolts would snap.



    SkiMad
     
  14. lollasch

    lollasch New Member

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    Thanks for all the welcomes guys!

    These photos show that there was a bit of rust present but I cant remember how long I took them after the incident. Small cracks were also found in the mount next to the one that snapped off. These were welded up as best as possible when the snapped mount was welded back on.
    IMG_20140907_175430.jpg IMG_20140907_175443.jpg


    This photo shows that the one remaining bolt (the one that was in the mount that snapped off) was a USC Grade 8.8. If you look at the images above in this post you can see the failure better and you can make out the black on the left over threads. I am leaning towards the idea that the PO used the correct bolts...
    IMG_0217.JPG

    I tend to agree with you duccmann.


    You probably summed what everyone else was saying best grabcon. Thanks for all your comments guys and I'm glad to hear not to many of you have experienced the same thing!
     
  15. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    I hope someday I will be able, with no experience, to analyze why your rack broke too.
     
  16. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    I would take that bike to the local honda dealer and show them, you may be surprised. I got involved and spoke them "honda directly" and got new tail section for a Nighthawk years ago due to some cracks, the service writer was surprised as I had an aftermarket seat on it too, which he thought would have voided my warranty.

    Just a thought, I do remember honda doing a recall regarding the tail section of the 800 Interceptor, it involved a square piece of metal that was to be a-fixed into the tail secton box where the exhaust pipes where, I know its different than your catastrophic failure. Good luck, scary chit for sure...Cheers
     
  17. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    I sure hope Honda dealers all over the planet are not getting swamped with dudes bringing in truckloads of regulator/rectifiers.
     
  18. grabcon

    grabcon New Member

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    It looks like your Sub Frame (Seat Rail is toast). If it were me I would replace rather than repair. Partzilla has them part #50200-MCW-D02 for $208 plus shipping. There are also a number of them on eBay.

    Your sub frame looks like it has been cracked for sometime. Most likely from being overloaded causing everything else to fail.

    In the grand scheme of things the part is cheap. The labor/effort to put it on is the issue. I have never done this but it does not look hard, just a lot of stuff needs to come off to put a new part on.
     
  19. RobVG

    RobVG Member

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    The bolt was a 8.8. A 10.9 would have been better. Here

    I've spent 20 years repairing things like these all the time. The first thing you do is try to determine why something broke so you don't have to fix it again.
    It's obvious that other guys who posted have experience whether professional or not.

    Who crapped in 'your' Corn Flakes ya Wanker. ;)


    PS- Maybe it was installed with a torque hammer...
     
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Corn flakes can be found at most Honda dealerships. They are called service managers.

    I like the work you did on your bike. JB Weld is great stuff when properly torqued.
     
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