2002 VFR800| Engine Cranks - No Start

Hello everyone,

I am working on the 2002 VFR800 for a project and a bit stuck on the first stage. As of now I have the complete motorbike with the engine mounted on the bike and everything in its place. The engine was serviced by my fellow labmates partially and put back together. When we tried to run it the engine cranks but doesn't run. So far based on the posts on VFR world I have done the following things but still the same issue.

1. FI system works perfectly as far as we have tested it. Fuel pump primes, FI light stays off when in ON position. All previous error codes in the system have been wiped clean and no new errors found.

2. Engine cranks when tried to start with side stand up and everything, so none of these sensors is preventing the engine from starting.

3. The IPG (ignition pulse generator) was tested today for voltage and it showed around 3.2 V peak on cranking which is above 0.7V minimum so that is fine.

4. We found some stray voltage of aroung 0.8V on the ECM connector (yellow wire from IPG) as mentioned to be checked in the manual without cranking. Not sure if the voltage is stray.

5. No spark is seen at the spark plugs (all of them).

6. I checked most of the grounds I could find.

If anyone has an ideas I can pursue before I contact a honda dealership or a mechanic it would be a really great help.

For reference you can watch this video I made of the problem: https://youtu.be/zRn-UUTm6GA

 

Do you have power to the + on the coils? If so I think you are going to start looking at the ECU

 

Hey Norm,

I am going in tomorrow to check for that. I actually tested the three wires which connect to the ignition coil. The black/white and green for battery voltage which was around 12V. I don't know what the third wire is for but I think it basically tells the coil when to spark. I'm going to check the coils again tomorrow and work my way through it.

If there are key things that I should look into apart from what is mentioned in the manual for a no spark problem, I would highly appreciate it as it will help me proceed through this in a systematic manner.

 

Ok so a bit more info needed on this , how did you come by the project , was it running when you got it? Could this be the reason you got it, previous owner couldn't get it running either?

 

The project involves using the VFR engine for some other application. The bike was purchased (2nd hand) and it was driven to the lab so it was in the working condition prior to its servicing done by my other labmates.

 

Ok so you are now in a nasty hole that is difficult to dig your way out of we have had these situations before. No spark can be a problem to diagnose, easy if you have known working parts to swap in and out but I doubt you would be in this situation. You say the pulse generators are ok so my guess is there is a problem with the wiring to/from the ECU somewhere

 

Okay, so I figured that the spark test we did previously was a incorrect so did it again today. I could see spark on the spark plugs but it was a yellow spark (weak spark based on what I have read till now). I also got a spark tester and checked it with that on. On the spark tester I am getting a blue spark, so i figured the spark plugs need replacement. I have ordered a new set of 4 spark plugs and will try it and let know if that solves the problem.

If apart from spark plugs there is any other thing that can cause such a response please do let know.

 

Plugs possibly but I think unlikely, seeing it was running when you got it, 4 plugs do not all fail at once

 

I tested two of them simultaneously (cylinder 1 and 3) and both showed a yellow spark. So i figured I should change the plugs. The only other thing if this doesn't work would be checking the spark timing I guess.

 

Timing won't have changed unless you have changed it. Now you are starting to guess. How long is it since this motor was running?

 

The only reason I have to suspect that is as I didn't work on the engine while it was being serviced by other labmates.

Also when I ran the engine yesterday with some of the spark plugs out for testing, I could smell gasoline in the engine (so for sure there is no issue with fuel flow, hopefully).

The air passage is clear for sure, so that shouldn't be an issue.

There is a weak spark (yellow spark) at two of the spark plugs (still waiting on the new plugs).

Just in case if it wasn't the spark plug it would be either the timing or the cylinder compression. I'm going to hookup a vaccum pressure gauge to check that after installing the new plugs.

If not even that, then it all boils down to the timing as I have been told that while servicing the engine the timing belt was removed for the camshafts.

That's the reason I'm guessing it to be one of the probable causes.

 

When anybody removes the timing belt on a 2002 VFR you are going to have problems

 

Alright, so today I replaced all the spark plugs with new ones (which were tested first just to be sure) and still engine just cranks and does not run.

So I moved on and opened the rear cylinder covers to see the timing chain and the cogs for the two cam shafts. Checked their timing as per the manual and they are perfectly aligned as per the manual.

So on the whole we are still stuck on what is causing the engine not to run properly. Any comments.

 

Are you now sure the spark is good, and if so why did it improve? If you have good spark, good compression and you say the timing is right then the only thing that will prevent it from running is fuel. Have you tried a spray of starter fluid onto the air cleaner, this will tell you if it is going to fire or not

 

Hey Norm,

So I tested it with the Starter fluid and it runs but as long as the fluid is there and then dies. So that means the issue is with the fuel delivery?

I made a video of it for reference which you can check here:- https://youtu.be/S-X3mBqexVk

 

Problem is with the fuel injection

 

So the problem was with the fuel hose from pump to the filter inside the tank. It was completely broken.

So I had a follow up question, we plan to run the engine on E85 as part of our project and I was wondering if you have any idea of what kind of fuel hose should we put in to work with that.

 

If you are going to run E85, I'd suggest buying or making your own and using stainless steel. The long term affects on rubber lines not originally designed to handle E85 will cause too many problems down the road (in my opinion).

By the way, changing to E85 might also require a new FPR, injectors, and possibly even a pump. All this because you will need more ethanol to run efficiently. Larger gas lines may allow for more volume pushed by the pump, but I don't know how the injectors will handle it.