Best $0.00 I've ever spent

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Lint, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Lint

    Lint Member

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    So a short-ish while ago, I raised my forks in the triples about 12mm and shimmed my shock 4mm, equating to 12mm rise in the rear. Even though it' been a few months or so since I've done this, I still can't get over how amazing the change is. It truly feels like a different bike. It flicks so much easier, I can lean it over effortlessly and it makes canyons a dream. Stable in braking, stable at the ton. Why oh why did I wait three years to do this? Please do it to your bike. It really transforms it! I got the shim at a car alignment shop for free because it was used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  2. baz263

    baz263 New Member

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    I have a 6mm shim in the rear and 10mm in the triples. It never gets nervous, and steers so much better. More ground clearance too. Pegs are harder to deck out. Downside is the centre stand only just lifts the rear wheel. Hopefully take it to the track next month to test it out when the weather is warmer. The 750's will take even more rear ride height.

    Sent from my SGP512 using Tapatalk
     
  3. zombie

    zombie New Member

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    I was planning on doing the front shocks hopefully this weekend but what is the rear shim mod? I haven't heard of that before.
     
  4. Lint

    Lint Member

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    The rear shock mod is pretty straightforward. Go to an auto repair business and ask for a spare used alignment shim. Put your bike on the center stand, remove your seat and unbolt your tank, then raise and brace the back of your tank and you will see a nut that goes on the shock. Loosen that to just about coming off, but leave it on. Mae sure to be patient at this point. I suppose you could remove a bunch of stuff, but if you just take your time, you can get this done without taking anything else off.

    There is a metal square box that the shock post mounts to with the top of the shock running through that the nut tightens up to. Under this box is where you will slide the shim, between the top of the shock and the bottom of the box/mount. When I did mine, I reached between the frame and the top of the shock, holding the shim between my fingers. It fell a few times, but what I remember is that when I was working from the left side of the bike, I remember that when I got it to right side of the shock, sort of reaching around, it slid right in. Once it's in place tighten the bolt and go for a ride. It will definitely turn faster, so I suggest easing into it, especially if you adjust your forks too, but I have found it's stable in braking, accelerating, turning etc. ENJOY!
    I found this on VFRD: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/81049-ok-im-gonna-shim-my-shock/
    And this: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80705-raised-forks-question/

    The alignment shim I used looked like this and the mechanic at the shop I stopped at pulled two out of his mechanic's chest and gave them to me. My calipers measured it at 4mm thick, but it may have been 3mm, but regardless, it's a world of difference, for free.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  5. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    This will make it steer faster and it raises the center of gravity -perfect for having the bike fall over or a Randy drop.
     
  6. Lint

    Lint Member

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    11050317_853542361396431_864615326289246680_n(1).jpg

    Who has the RoundUp?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  7. haygood

    haygood New Member

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    So, how is this different from just changing the preload on the rear shock? That's a 2 minute job. Are you guys so tall and/or heavy you already have the preload raised all the way up? If not, are you doing this to get more upward suspension travel?

    I am short and light, so I have my preload all the way down.
     
  8. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    that's true this mod works if your a fat slob-I weigh 170 pds
    the stock suspension works fine for me with no mods:nelson:
     
  9. Lint

    Lint Member

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    This raises the rear of the bike, changing the geometry of your suspension. This, especially when combined with raising the forks in the triple clamps, makes the bike substantially more fun!
     
  10. Lint

    Lint Member

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    How would you know? Your bike never gets off it's side fairings. ..
     
  11. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    Zero drops this year-Randy is not happy!
     
  12. haygood

    haygood New Member

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    OK, so exactly the same as preload adjustment in that it raises the bike's rear end, but limits compression travel and adds extension travel. That would indicate this would only be worth doing if you already have to bike on tallest preload setting and can still tolerate more, either because you are tall or heavy, or both.

    By raising the forks, you are lowering the front end. I might see about lowering mine a little more than I already have and see how the handling changes. The expectation for raising the rear and/or lowering the front would a decrease in rake (what cage driver's call caster), leading to less self-centering and generally more nimble steering. I'm sure our bikes can do with that, provided we don't do so much we get into tank slapper range. I'm planning on installing a damper, so I might wait to get that on before I lower the front some.

    Does all of that sound about right?
     
  13. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    Not really. Your preload compresses the shock spring and raises the rear "because" it takes more weight to compress the spring (shock). This intern makes the shock less compliant to the road. It doesn't react to the bumps like it should, to stiff.

    Putting the shim on top of the shock raises the rear and leaves the shock more adjustable. You can use thick washers with or without a slot cut in to them to slide on top of the mount.
     
  14. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    What he said, front down, rear up = faster steering. The VFR's have a fairly conservative geometry because they are designed to carry a passenger. Thus riding solo, you can take liberties with the geometry. Only thing to watch when lowering the front is to much & the mudguard/fender may hit the engine under full compression ! You have been warned.

    If you lower the front, you lose ground clearance but quicken the steering. If you then raise the rear you get your ground clearance back & get even faster steering. There are practical limits beyond which it will end in tears !

    YMMV
     
  15. haygood

    haygood New Member

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    I'm far from wanting to pick any fights here, so I hope there isn't any implied tone of voice problem in this at all.

    Grey, I'm going to end up disagreeing with you here. Changing preload changes the overall length of the shock under a given amount of load, effectively lengthening the shock. It does not change spring rate. It does not change the amount the spring is compressed with a given load on it (which is the spring rate: Force = spring stiffness * spring compression, or stiffness = force/compression). The only difference between a preload adjustment and this mod would be that the shock has a limit to how far it can extend before your rear wheel runs out of travel and leaves the pavement. That's not really an issue - how soon a stoppie begins, but that's the only difference between the two approaches to raising the rear.

    Raising with a shim, you push the entire shock down from the frame, so the rear wheel can drop down further from the bike, and would bottom out at a higher ride height.
    Adjusting preload, the limits of wheel travel are unchanged.

    Either adjusts ride height without affecting the spring rate, linkage geometry, or other suspension properties any differently from each other. There is nothing wrong with either approach, unless you are worried about bottoming out the rear suspension using the shim method, but I doubt anyone expects to bottom out their VFR.

    I know I don't have a high post count and am sorta new around here, so I don't want to go pushing any issues or anything. The Audi, MINI, and VW Scirocco crowd are used to me enough they know I'm not picking a fight when I go all hard core enginerd on them. :)
     
  16. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    adj the suspension is a good thing to do, replacing suspension parts with better parts is better.
     
  17. Lint

    Lint Member

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    Haygood,

    Speaking from personal experience, let me state what I have found. When I bought the bike, it was all stock. Stock settings on preload, shock etc. I paid a mechanic to adjust the suspension, due to me not knowing at the time. Since my 260lbs is greater than the max weight the bike was designed for, he simply maxed everything out. I rode the bike to his shop and then obviously after. There was no discernible difference in the suspension geometry, cornering etc, other than the fact that it didn't Pogo when braking etc.

    Fast forward to when I raised the fork tubes in the triples. A noticeable difference. Steering quickened up and left right transitions were easier. Then, when I added the shim to the top of the rear shock, it made yet another leap in turning performance. The sum is greater than its parts in a matter of speaking. My rear tire is closer to the ground while the bike is on the center stand. I noticed no discernable difference in any of the above when it was simply the springs being compressed by the preload adjustments.
     
  18. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    Haygood, your assertion is only true re preload -V- raising shock, when working within the rider seated sag zone. Once you want to go further, then preload will not suffice. The simple way to look at it is to note the relationship between the swing arm pivot & the wheel axles. With standard setup, any amount of preload will NOT change this relationship at full extension.

    Preload is there to set the rider sag, say 30mm in the rear. Once set correctly, the shock will work within its normal range. Now if you increase preload, but not the rider weight, the bikes rear will ride higher, but it will also feel harsher & not be good for the tyre if ridden hard.

    If you shim the shock or use a better unit with ride height adjustment like I do then the whole bike will ride higher with the preload set to normal sag. The shock will work properly & be kinder to the tyre, plus the bike will steer more easily. I have my rear shock extended such that the centre stand does not reach the ground !
    This raises the height of the swingarm pivot & thus the angles from there to each wheel spindle. This creates more ground clearance for cornering as well as raising the CofG.

    So preload & shim are NOT the same !
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  19. haygood

    haygood New Member

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    Absolutely. No problem there. When you have run out of preload adjustment, add shims. Or, if you keep running into max extension on the shock, reduce preload and add shims. We are all agreeing here, basically.
     
  20. haygood

    haygood New Member

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    Mohawk,
    Wow, that's a high tail! I bet the bike feels super responsive at that angle. At 5'7" (170cm) tall and 150lb, though, I would have to add training wheels if I ran the bike that high, and that would probably not be good for handling. I guess I am the size of the japanese guy the bike was designed for, so I've got all the height I can handle and am at no risk for running out of adjustment.
     
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