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  1. #91
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    I think y'all might be on the wrong forum.

    A quick Google search shows there's well over a half dozen Mazda forums to choose from


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    Quote Originally Posted by ksoholm View Post
    You're clearly bat-shit crazy, off your meds in an asylum banging your head against the iron bars across the windows. Watch out; it'll be electrodes tomorrow.

    In case you're not getting it, there's *zero* design correlation between the FWD, front-engine, passenger car that was the MX-6, and the Porsche Boxster--a mid-engine, RWD, light-weight, two-seat, pure sports car.

    OTOH, there is such a correlation 'twixt the Boxster and the MX-5, a fine two-seat, light-weight, pure sports car, but with engine in front.

    OTOOH, if you're a kid who scraped money together for an MX-6, it's obvious to you it's the best car ever designed, and that Porsche copied it but somehow turned it into a Boxster. Wait! Listen! Is that Scuderia Ferrari calling you to borrow the MX-6 for study?

    Lastly, all RX-7s are long gone. Lots of 944s live.

    Kristian
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    At least we can all agree that most cars have four wheels unless you live in East LA and that most motorcycles have two wheels. What we can say aboot a Porsche with a mid chassis rotary engine is that ya wouldn't need much of a heater.

    The Cad-Allard was not all that great a car. About as good as some of the old Fords and Chevvies ect with built or transplanted engines and no concern with suspension, steering, ect. IOW, it was squirrely. If memory serves, I think the original design concept was centered around an inline 4.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4toTour View Post
    I think y'all might be on the wrong forum.

    A quick Google search shows there's well over a half dozen Mazda forums to choose from
    It might be fun to Google bikes with Wankel Rotarys too or Porsche designed V twins for Harley-Davidson. All kind of things oot there that are not cars or bikes from car and bike manufacturers. Porsche has a wristwatch that is belt drive for 75K and Moto Guzzi makes espresso machines. Honda makes lawnmowers and damn fine machines they are too.

  4. #94
    Senior Member ksoholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbilly View Post
    Honda makes lawnmowers and damn fine machines they are too.
    They're excellent; the Hondas of lawnmowers.

  5. #95
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    And their jets?

  6. #96
    Senior Member ksoholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    And their jets?
    Wow, that thing is cool; looks like the Honda engineering traits are there in full measure. Now, gotta get $5 mill. Funny to read a review of a plane.

    http://www.flyingmag.com/we-fly-hond...-ha-420#page-9

  7. #97
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    "If Harley-Davidson made airplanes, would you fly?"

    I figure if I had the pesos to buy a Honda Jet, I could have my lawn mowed. I wonder if there is much trade in value for my mower on one of those planes?

  8. #98
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    That lil Honda will do almost 500mph!

  9. #99
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    Probably gets crappy mileage..LOL

  10. #100
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    Great guys.

    Read the book Badbilly. The second gen RX-7 was to compete with sales of the 944 as a lower cost alternative. Interesting thing in the beginning of the book, the complete tear down of the turbo-charged version. Look at their shapes. As a matter of fact, my old 300ZX Turbo was based upon the looks and performance of the Porsche 928. It was designed to beat the Corvette. GM didn't produce one that year because of that and revamped considerably.

    Bat shit crazy. You were just wrong. The 2ND Gen MX-6 received multiple awards across the board, and is the SCCA SOLO II and another class winner for all its production years of 1993 thru 1997. Porsche and Mercedes did give Mazda an engine design award for excellence.

    In 1993, this car in LS trim rolled off the lot at $26,995. Take punches at the poor school kids. Make fun of the poor and less affluent. Really?

    Guy you didn't read and won't research a thing. That is okay. The truth is what it is. Your perception is what it is.

    All in all, front wheel drive and rear wheel drive have nothing to do with it. Up until this point, the 911 had no lower cost alternative in Porsche's stable. When Mazda had been copying performance targets of Porsche, Porsche then did the same to Mazda. It is a fact. I don't even have time to go through so much history online. It is there. The Boxster was Porsche's first mid-engined design for the consumer. It is not rear engined like a 911.

    All this German pride blah blah supremacy whatever, pyuuuukkkk.

    Everything is designed at a price point. The Taiwanese and Chinese can create and produce anything that rivals the best the world offers. Delve into the other side. They can design and manufacturer crap if you ask. They can design and create the best if you pay, period.

    One of the goals of the paper was to show that the nameplate had nothing to do with which was faster. It came down to a simple empirical formula. You see, I got tired of guys saying theirs was better. I had formula that included HP and weight. 18% driveline losses for an auto. 15% losses for standard. Plug it in, voila. I loved beating Camaro variants and Mustangs around town. NOT in the 1/4 but was pretty close, on the road and in the backroad twisties and occasionally on the highways. We would often stop, and bam, what a great car, you can drive... In the rain or on ice, noooo contest.

    ET & Trap Speed. I then used a computer program and other software plus data from hundreds of cars in Motor Trends database and plugged them into this computer and my formula. It was dead nuts precise and within 2% everytime of published tested results! I have even tweaked the empirical constant to reflect the state of tune for motorcycles.

    I did this to gauge a person's vehicle before doing the do. All that talk and smack. A simple calculation, annnndddd you lost!

    If Mississippi States Professional Engineers could step in to give me a nod, and their mathematics department offer me entrance into their master's program, then who are you to say.

    Now, go look up the Mazda. Look up KLDE, KLZE. It is big ole motorcycle engine. Remember the Taurus SHO? Hmmmm, something's going on hear with these Yamaha/Mazda designs. Oh yeah, Mazda competed and won the LeMans with that same funny intake/exhaust type idea. Now what is the rub is that the Japanese spec'd KL-ZE does have the same performance as the later Boxster. Haaaa! Notice how the family cars do it too. Nothing special about the nameplate sir.

    It is not that about which forum; I was attacked by someone who didn't even go and research for himself. I asked if he would like the paper with the references. Nothing! Just ad-hominess and band wagoning.


    Sorry I am poor. Poor me. Oh I said that. Life goes on.

    Anyway, again; there is 100% correlation. Here is some data that I handed to the judges. Oh yes, there is zero correlation between Miata and Boxster. The Miata brought back the roadster craze, as in BMW Z3 and others.

    page1.jpg

    Now the automatic version of the Porsche had 5 gears versus the 4 gears of the Mazda. Take their average, voila. Also notice the dates.

    I just don't have time to dig through all the older files and the net to find where Porsche discusses it. They wanted an offering in that lower priced segment market. In '98 it was $41K with tiptronic, ummm shiftable automatic that my Mazda had in 1993! Sadly, it was the only year with that. The others received a different transaxle.

    Similar weights, Cd, frontal area, styling, gearing, engine displacement. The MX-6 LS second generation fits the bill buddy. At the time, the MX-6 was the better bargain for those who wanted more performance up to 240HP. Because of torque steer, beyond 280HP, handling suffers.

    The Porsche had an open well design with some liners at the time that could not be honed or bored. It already had a super duper high compression ratio. Some folks decided to turbo them, but only to find out at super high dollars that the engine was super unreliable.

    OH YEAH, CHECK OUT ANDY HOLLIS http://autocrosstalk.com/2016/12/01/...solo-champion/

    He is one of many that campaigned these cars winning in the SCCA. I am so sorry it is not MotoGP or the Isle of Man. We poor people gotta drive something. Oh what is that behind him, a Porsche.

    At the end of the day, it is the design specification, whether rotary, inline, whatever. BHP that hits the ground. After the quarter, coefficient of drag, lift,... takes effect moreso.

    If ya like, I will let you take a look at the Paper : ) Ask reaaalllly nicely.

    Just kidding.

    Have a great one. Cheers.

    Oh yes, get your heads out your arse and into a book, a credible one.
    Last edited by ridnout; 05-05-2017 at 07:00 PM.

  11. #101
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    fb801f716c9d8762b55e09011b7cf60e.jpg

    Read SAE Paper SAE920677. Here is a link to it. SAE's site costs. http://www.mazdamaniac.com/tech/sae_20920677.htm

    Check out http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/here-a...x-6-1688214343

    Now, from the net "A USA oil company researched engine longevity using their own oil :

    "After 300,950 miles the Mazda MX6-V6 passed an IM 240 Exhaust Emission Test in Aurora, Colorado, with results well within new car limits. At more than 310,000 miles, the test engine was disassembled for inspection and measurement. No wear was evident on valve stems and guides, main and rod bearings, crankshaft main and rod journals, or cylinder walls. The cylinder hone marks from original factory machining were all clearly evident. While piston skirts showed no wear, piston rings showed an average of only 0.0015" of face wear."

    The V6 rivals the Lexus V8 for longevity, which is unsurprising considering the original application was a Xedos6-2.0V6, Xedos9-2.25/2.5V6 & Sentia rotary luxury lines. Many V6s & I4s have exceeded 350,000 miles, the only failures on one was a Mitsubishi alternator at over 200,000 miles and the pre-Jan-1995 rear calipers on another."

    The later Boxster could not hope to achieve that. With those stupid liners, it cost $$$$ to make power.

    Oh and yes, Google yourself, in 1992, Mazda did win an award from a prestigious German automotive group for the KL.

    I choose cars within a certain all-around feel, bikes as well. Now, take that FWD vehicle against that Boxster in the rain. Heck, I was the only person to drive to school in the snow and ice. I was turned around. It was so fun. We Southerners just conk out and have a holiday.

    Drove 12 Hours to find one, but it wasn't up to spec some months ago. I still have a fresh KLZE.

    Take a look at the VRIS section, Mohawk. Yamaha does something similar in their R1, something you tried to replicate with those Yoshimura velocity stacks. Ford SHO and MX-6 heads were designed by Yamaha. Go figure. The R1 rips from reading, MotoGP standings... I love the VFR as the all arounder it is. Time to investigate some more rides!

    Wow, if you all would just read my very juvenile paper, it would have stopped a lot of the tinkering on the VFR. But hey, yall have done some excellent work. I know where to start if I should. Always start with Volumetric efficiency and a tolerance study. I did. Cool guy in town let me have an engine to tear down. The local High School let me use their vocational mechanics shop. It wasn't just some paper.

    But again, I'd better increase my dosage. Ksoholm almost looks like Lysholm. Ooops I'm not going there!

    Oh yes, my girlfriend and I picked out a 240SX for her. Thought you guys loved twisties. These are twisties cars! On a short track, your super duper sorta Boxster won't have an advantage; nor will a Vette!

    All Hail the KL!

    Sorry folks, Lysholm, BadWillie, just do some reading. You all clearly have the time. Enlighten yourselves. You aren't too old to learn new tricks or learn from a youngster. As the saying goes, you can learn a lot from a dummy! I sure have!

    Hey LilWillie, been looking for some of your posts on VFRDiscussion.com, as you've been mentioned here and there; for some reason, I can't find one. You must have an awful good bunch of good stuff about paint and performance that I just can not find. Dang!
    Last edited by ridnout; 05-05-2017 at 04:13 PM.

  12. #102
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    Yep, batshit crazy..

  13. #103
    Senior Member ksoholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridnout View Post


    pyuuuukkkk.
    My word/noise of the weekend. Now I won't be able to see decades-old Mazdas--the few-- without thinking "pyuuuukkkk."

  14. #104
    Senior Member ksoholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbilly View Post
    Yep, batshit crazy..
    Effing hell, you're not joking...

  15. #105
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    Yep, crazy.

    Sorry Ksoholm that you were wrong on all accounts. It is okay to be that way. It is not okay to continue in ignorance.
    The MX-5 Miata was responsible for the resurgence of the roadster.
    The MX-6 was responsible for the 968. Mercedes & Porsche did award Mazda for the KL engine family & the MX-6/MX-3 for at the time the lightest rev-happy small displacement V-6 on the planet.

    Now on to continue getting my 6TH Gen up to cosmetic & mechanical (moreso cosmetic) snuff, so that I can do some things to the 5TH within reason.

    Take care Porsche fanboys, moving onward and upward.

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksoholm View Post
    Effing hell, you're not joking...

    I suspect a conspiracy probably by those old Chinese guys who build Subarus and those who keep posting up fake pictures of engines that we know are just photoshopped.

    https://www.google.com/search?
    q=horizontally+opposed+engines&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS401&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiSxvry89rTAhVBTWMKHQ9lAi0Q7AkIdA&biw=1145&bih=569#spf=1

  17. #107
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    I think he has out done Norca on the last word........ lol

  18. #108
    Senior Member ksoholm's Avatar
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    Pyuuuukkkk.


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