BMC Air Filter

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by ridnout, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    Hello, I'm a brand new rider with a 1999, yup Italian Red, faded...

    Well been doing some work, regulator (check, went out along with new battery at sale), cleaning and inspecting (check), and maintenance (ongoing)...

    Brings me to the filter. I've purchased a BMC Filter and it does not fit without a bit of coercion. The interference comes in the form of the large red rubber/silicon surround of the actual filter of the filter assembly potentially blocking the crankcase vent tube in the airbox. Without using a dremel on the box or dremel/sealant on the new filter, I'm convinced that this was not intended by BMC. I'm currently in communication with them via email having just sent pics and my evaluation. Oh yes, the forward portion of the filter fits well; however, I must start with the rear portion and torque about till the front is sealed. There is an image of the filter showing the indentation caused by the poor fitment.

    What I'd like to know is if any of you have had similar results or if it was truly a drop-in device.

    Thanks.

    IMG_0228.jpg IMG_0229.jpg IMG_0230.jpg IMG_0231.jpg IMG_0232.jpg IMG_0233.jpg IMG_0235.jpg IMG_0268.jpg IMG_0269.jpg
     
  2. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    my bmc filter fit, but it fell apart after 2 years. the soft rubber had worked its way out of the hard plastic. zero warranty from bmc. I am using piper cross now. lifetime warranty.
     
  3. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    Wow, I was looking for the thread with the pictures of that. I also read where someone siliconed the piece back together or modified the oem one with the bmc element and siliconed it all together.

    If you contributed any of that, could you point me to those threads. Since I'm in communication with them, it'll be an adventure to gauge their service.

    Thanks.
     
  4. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Mine fit perfectly the first time, had it for 3 years and sold it with the bike. Never had a problem. I bought it after testing a few filters with a vacuum box, it was clearly the best flowing filter at that time. Mine didn't look anything like yours though......
     
  5. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Smaller maybe?
     
  6. sunofwolf

    sunofwolf New Member

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    here is my lifetime war piper cross, the lifetime war is useless and it changes the fueling too much makes the bike run lean-the stock filter is the best P1010197.jpg Nadeli.jpg P1010198.jpg P1010261.jpg
     
  7. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    I'm not sure, but I think you have it upside down.
    Fits fine in mine, had it for over 3 years.
     
  8. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Norcalboy's may be inside oot.
     
  9. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Just like you, I am a novice with the exact same year bike and the BMC filter. This is September of 2014, I did not install it but my mechanic did and described the exact same phenomenon. He took some of the box off and said to cut it down enough to generate enough space for the crankcase breather vent, exactly like you hinted.

    With so many of the vendors being black holes, or just giving you some baloney answer from customer service, he simply did not want to wait a week for a reply, so he moved forward with it.

    I am wondering if BMC redesigned the filter as a universal fit for VFRs and did not take into consideration the dimensions on the 5th gen. Norcalboy's response that the filter looks different to him is possibly a hint of this.

    I will be looking forward to hearing what BMC says about this. I am weary of using e-mail as there are so many obstacles like spam filters. Did you get any instant reply letting you know they got the e-mail? Among the rare vendors, Dynojet replies in a decent amount of time and Jamie Daugherty is an ace. Let us see how BMC does in 2015 with servicing your query.
     
  10. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    IMG_0305[1].jpg

    This is a pic of the warranty.

    I sent the email, but it bounced; as I'd exceeded the message size. I will simply
    refer the customer service guy here. That will be easier. That way, he will be able
    to interact if necessary.



    Been wanting to mention this--> Although I haven't checked the placement of the MAP (or it's equivalent) sensor, I'm sure that it or any its equivalents are found behind the filtering element.
    That means this situation should not cause a lean mixture. Anyway that extra smidgen of air as a function of RPM, load, etc... should be well within the control systems input range.

    Now here is where the rubber hits the road ----> Normally an intake and exhaust are done together first before other upgrades, as these are limitations to the entire system.
    The previous owner modified the exhaust by removing the baffles and shortening the assembly. Now that they have removed a restriction, then at best, let me remove that same restriction in the intake.

    Won't make power directly! It will help throttle response and anything else you add later within tolerance.

    Again, these bikes are SYSTEMS. One change necessitates another.

    Just a RANT.
     
  11. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    If you think you are getting any extra airflow from a BMC filter and or a gutted factory exhaust, you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
     
  12. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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  13. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    Only purchased the filter because of the comments about the K&N and the expense and disposable nature of the oem filter.

    In reality, to check I'd have to measure it by simply tapping the MAP sensor's output and by using an exhaust gas pressure gauge vs. rpm and MAP sensor output to get a clear picture.

    I could also measure permeability and the actual filter area (unfolded) of the element. That's too just much for deterministic desires about performance of the filter itself or used within the system.

    I was just putting out some empirical sense derived from the science of automotive engineering as it relates to the internal combustion engine. If one wants to make more horsepower, not me in general, and everything else being equal, the intake and exhaust must be able to "flow" the increased intake charge and the extra exhaust gases before doing any mods. Aside from a mathematical system, it is a GESTALT --> a system.

    That is to say, do the intake; one should do the exhaust.

    Now when it comes to the gutted exhaust, I would be hard pressed to believe that any other muffler or silencer or whatever really does any better. Why? That is, because it offers a volume for expansion (slows velocity, not what we want; but want to decrease the noise) and is more free flowing. Making more HP or torque--not enough to worry about it. However, quicker throttle response is always welcomed.

    Just removing restrictions. That's about it.

    NOW for the rant--> I've read so much, both informative and detrimental.

    On one thread, here or there, someone is trying willy-nilly spending gobs of money trying to improve upon the engines design. Nowhere did the person consider the engineer's work and WHY. Screwing with valve angles to make them straight, really? Did the engineer choose that based on compromise or because of added turbulence needed to create a homogeneous mixture? I don't know.

    What I'm getting at here is please don't flame me. I'm a brand new rider but not a buffoon.

    I am glad to be here to get A WHOLE Bunch of useful info and meet a great community of riders.
     
  14. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    You are way over analyzing it. The OEM air filter (BMC and KN air filters were not designed as performance filters in VFR800 application, they have greatly reduced opening area versus stock in order to allow use with out fueling changes. The piper cross air filter was designed with performance in mind, as it makes full use of the filters surface area), it will move more air than the OEM velocity stacks. Furthermore the OEM mufflers will move more exhaust gas than the OEM exhaust header primaries. So slipons or air filters alone are not going to do very much. Your fueling demands will not be greatly effected until you enlarge the header primaries, throttle body inlets or start doing engine work. If you want to confirm this, get a wideband and see how much your fuel demands change in order to maintain "An Ideal Air/Fuel Ratio" when modifying these components.

    Edited for norcal
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  15. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    Thanks for the info NorcalBoy especially Knight and others. As of yet, the customer service rep has yet to respond.

    I'd rather not modify the box, kinda the principle.

    Oh yeah, CandyRedRC46, thanks, too. I knew there were other alternatives; I've searched the threads before making the decision. I love the color of the filter; although, I know I will be the only one in the know. It fit my budget and was reusable like a K&N. That alternative was just too expensive.

    I've been able to change the fuel filter with the -013 variant (one with the neck and $37.00 delivered on eBay), replace R/R with a larger unit (same circuit topology), clean and lubricate chain.

    Currently the fairings are off along with the gas tank. I'd like to effect repairs to the upper cowl (fill in the dumbo ears) and get all of those repainted (already chosen shop).

    Anyway, just an update.

    P.S. Yup, since this is so new to me, I really don't wanna mod the box; but it is probably for the best.

    OH YEAH, did your mechanic remove the rubber gasket? I don't think that he/she did, but just asking.

    Thanks.
     
  16. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Sorry but I do not know about mine.

    I have read from others here that they had to cut off the OEM gasket for the BMC to fit.
     
  17. LeakingLewis

    LeakingLewis New Member

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    I thought it was just me, but i have the same problem with a bike master filter. Just didn't quite fit. I placed it as well as i could and tightened the screws down. I probably should do a rework or buy a K&N
     
  18. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    The O-ring/gasket that is the sealing surface for the airbox lid can be removed with a small pick and should lift right out of the groove with no problems....at least that was my experience.....
     
  19. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    You need a 4 or 5 gas analyzer to actually get any information of value. Lambda indicates the balance of air to fuel compared to stoich. A properly tuned engine may require numbers significantly different to Lambda to obtain best power.
     
  20. ridnout

    ridnout New Member

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    Oh yeah, after doing some reading, actually a whole bunch, I've come to the conclusion that these bikes are already optimized. Most changes won't garnish anything. However, some changes will definitely enhance the general driving/riding experience. That's what a familiar computational engineer would say.

    Another thing about these and other filters letting in a bunch of gunk over and above the paper filters--> A mechanic might be inclined to say that the air filter is not the only filtration system in an engine; there is also the oil. That's why it is advised to change your oil more frequently in dusty climates.

    These cleanable filters are supposed to get better as they fill in those gaping wholes with dirt and oil. Dunno. I'm just gonna try in stop the big stuff and let the oil do its job.

    It's been real, and yet, no contact from customer service.
     
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