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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by artpongs View Post
    . I'm not sure the optimal location for the bungs to be welded. I think just 2 are needed for rapid bike race correct?
    I think it depends on the bike. If you have one where it all collects then it should work with one. If you have 2 it'll use 2. I think Candy has 4 and does individual cylinder tuning, though he's running 4 of the add on tuning modules to pull that off to it's kind of a nuts system, but I suppose you get the fastest, most balanced tune that way.

    The setup would have to depend on where the headers come together so it's really up to the designer.


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    Hey Jay - I got an update from gofundme that included a photo of an interesting looking exhaust system. It had O2 bungs and an unexpected [At least, I didn't expect it] small diameter link-pipe between cylinder pipe merges. Is this a prototype that may be test run soon? Pass on any good news that may be percolating. Thanks.

  3. #63
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    Awe, did that show up via FB? I went in and changed some pre sets, one was add a photo which I thought was all ready there, interesting. best be this photo aprilia-rsv4-arata-exhaust-5.jpg

    That's the Akroprovic Ti header for the RSVR. A work of art as well as functional, that secondary mid pipe helps the flow through that tight 180 degree bend plus aids in a balance of the two collectors. I had quite the chat with them boys, just couldn't get them interested making one for the VFR. Ha on a side note the work of art is only a mire $3k, but for a bike thats all ready $20K + making 190 hps, so yea...

    aprilia-rsv4-arata-exhaust-4.jpg
    Last edited by RVFR; 02-17-2017 at 12:05 PM.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

    Making the VFR have more get up and go. Header build fund @ https://www.gofundme.com/vfr-header-build

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  5. #64
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    I'd totally be in for this if it were being done for the 6th gen - I do not own a 5th gen. :(

  6. #65
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    ^ Figure there's a stronger market for the 6th gen has it to be available after, as LOL you know, I have a 5th gen that I can work with ;)
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

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  7. #66
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    well as long as the rear primary is shaped right for the bulge from the cct it can be used for for 5th and 6th gen.

  8. #67
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    Right you are, and that's the plan.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

    Making the VFR have more get up and go. Header build fund @ https://www.gofundme.com/vfr-header-build

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  9. #68
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    Only $3000? Well, then, as Chevy Chase said in 'Fletch', I'd better only have two...

    Quote Originally Posted by RVFR View Post
    Awe, did that show up via FB? I went in and changed some pre sets, one was add a photo which I thought was all ready there, interesting. best be this photo aprilia-rsv4-arata-exhaust-5.jpg

    That's the Akroprovic Ti header for the RSVR. A work of art as well as functional, that secondary mid pipe helps the flow through that tight 180 degree bend plus aids in a balance of the two collectors. I had quite the chat with them boys, just couldn't get them interested making one for the VFR. Ha on a side note the work of art is only a mire $3k, but for a bike thats all ready $20K + making 190 hps, so yea...

    aprilia-rsv4-arata-exhaust-4.jpg

  10. #69
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    Just a slight up date. I had another great conversation with Gabe and introduce Miles to him, which is a fairly new owner of a 4th gen VFR. Got a chuckle a little bit here, Some people just have all the luck. He picked up knowing this VFR was a a fixer upper at a good price, while poking around he noticed that a header tube was cracked, just so happen, it's a 2 bro header WT... Yea right? Thing was, he wasn't finding any one that could repair this. I offered to let Gabe take a look, and wa-la all is good.
    In that seeing it is the genuine article, I took some comparison photos.
    Gabe now is making a wood jig, also noting some minor tweaks that could be made, but over all, he likes the layout. Now for ordering up some tubes. Then in measuring the 2bro, come to find out even though it a 4th gen header, it has 36mm id primary's, interesting, there's quite the difference. Ooo I'm liking where this is going

    DSCF0894.jpg

    DSCF0895.jpg
    Last edited by RVFR; 02-20-2017 at 02:41 PM.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

    Making the VFR have more get up and go. Header build fund @ https://www.gofundme.com/vfr-header-build

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  12. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVFR View Post
    Just a slight up date. I had another great conversation with Gabe and introduce Miles to him, which is a fairly new owner of a 4th gen VFR. Got a chuckle a little bit here, Some people just have all the luck. He picked it up as a fixer upper at a good price, while poking around he noticed the a header tube was cracked, just so happen it's a 2 bro header WT... Yea right? Thing was, he wasn't finding any one that could repair this. I offered to let Gabe take a look, and wa-la all is good.
    In that seeing it is the genuine article, I took some comparison photos.
    Gabe now is making a wood jig, also noting some minor tweaks that could be made, but over all, he likes the layout. Now for ordering up some tubes. Then in measuring the 2bro, come to find out even though it a 4th gen header, it has 36mm id primary's, interesting, there's quite the difference. Ooo I'm liking where this is going

    DSCF0894.jpg

    DSCF0895.jpg
    I love all this porn

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    Hey Jorge - I'm stoked for you and your 4 gen friend, but don't derail Gabe from our preexisting 5 gen/6 gen header project!

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    Or us guys with even older bikes. Now I'm sorry I sold that 1953 Velocette. Next thing ya know, a shitload of harleydoods will want a set for their bikes. This brings up the question of being able to chrome titanium and smooth oot those welds.

  16. #73
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    You may already know all of this, but it's very germane to this thread.

    Excellent explanation of exhaust systems.

    https://youtu.be/RWTARjxiqlo
    Videat veritatem

    See the truth

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  18. #74
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    Yep, I've talked with guys just like him. They're all pretty much on the same page. Interesting thing about this, Gabe and I have been talking Duals, but with the SSSA it's like Huh? Maybe? Then see a left sided VFR and go Hmmm. Maybe make em like the RC51 layout high and tight, IDK. Goal is also keep it simple, but duels would be a snap to install, less hassle there merging the two. God knows all the 6th gen owners love their dual outlets even though some are single. Just more food for thought.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

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  20. #75
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    Hi Jay - just checking the thread to bump it and find out if you and Gabe have any news about the headers?

  21. #76
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    Awe.. Yes and No. while Gabe was waiting on the correct tubing to arrive for the VFR 750 2 bro header repair, he took on a Nissan R35 project, suppose to have the tubing in by now, and had it to work the kinks out of the jig and do the fix on the 750 header this next week. Thank for the poke. I Did have another chat with Mike Valasco trading ideas, so pretty excited to see this come together. This is still going to Happen.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

    Making the VFR have more get up and go. Header build fund @ https://www.gofundme.com/vfr-header-build

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  23. #77
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    I'm curious as to how the 750 project now has priority, when it popped up six weeks or more after you started working on the 5 gen project with Gabe?

  24. #78
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    Poor guy was down on his luck here local to the area where he wasn't finding anyone that knew how to work exhaust tubing, in that I introduced him to Gabe. Then found out when he brought up the header to be fixed it was a 2bro, that showed us what we need to see, it was that we found out we need 36mm tubing when it was talked about 35 being. so no biggie. it's all good for the PR. right
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

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  26. #79
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    Another what's happening. So it just so happened I landed a 2 Bro header for the 5th gen Wa-la, bita boom, bita bang! Wow, only took a couple years and a bit of luck and blessed timing. I should have it my hands next week. From that I'll be seeing whats the to do getting a jig made up comparing it to the stock 98-99 header. That way I'll know if I want to install this 2bro on the Viffer and run it on the Dyno. My thoughts are to still have one made up then do a comparison, now there's no guessing involved. On ward ho as they say.

    Also while at Gabes going over stuff, I lent a hand as he was working the repair on that 2 bro for the VFR750 talked about earlier, man is he good.

    DSCF0922.jpg DSCF0924.jpg DSCF0925.jpg DSCF0927.jpg
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

    Making the VFR have more get up and go. Header build fund @ https://www.gofundme.com/vfr-header-build

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  28. #80
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    I guess my question is with all of the generations and different header configurations is this going to be generation specific or as I have the 8th is it possible to fit on my and others 8th gen? I see that you are working with a 6th generation. Interest is always there but not if the end result benefits on gen over the other. let me know. Thanks

    Mike D.

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    The headers in question look like they are year specific. In terms of other configurations, it might be great to have custom fabricated set of pipes and as yet an unknown muffler (s) on one's bike but in terms of cost, and of course subjectivity, springing for a couple of thousand pesos for headers on bikes that are only worth a bit more than that is for most IMO out of the question.

  30. #82
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    He really gets in there while welding. Looks like a dental hygienist.

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    Bubba, as it is right now the plan is 5th gen. But knowing that the 5th and gen system interchange with the 6th gen less the mid pipe has it doable. I haven't really got down to the brass tacs on the 8th. my first off looks tells me they'll fit, ? as it's the same engine layout as the 6th. but knowing there's a front mount radiator, has me wondering how much re do there'd be hasn't been figured out.
    Opportunity is where you anticipate it.

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  33. #84
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    Going strictly by memories of oil changes on the 6th gen vs my 8th gen, I think the front pipes bend in closer together and exit more under the engine on the 8th gen.
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  34. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVFR View Post
    Another what's happening. So it just so happened I landed a 2 Bro header for the 5th gen Wa-la, bita boom, bita bang! Wow, only took a couple years and a bit of luck and blessed timing. I should have it my hands next week. From that I'll be seeing whats the to do getting a jig made up comparing it to the stock 98-99 header. That way I'll know if I want to install this 2bro on the Viffer and run it on the Dyno. My thoughts are to still have one made up then do a comparison, now there's no guessing involved. On ward ho as they say.

    Also while at Gabes going over stuff, I lent a hand as he was working the repair on that 2 bro for the VFR750 talked about earlier, man is he good.

    DSCF0922.jpg DSCF0924.jpg DSCF0925.jpg DSCF0927.jpg
    I actually saw the header in person last week as I was picking up another part from Kevin. Things to note, the way the exit pipe is routed on this two bros, the center stand has to be removed. I am interested in the final product routed in a way it retains the center stand. Also, what is the stock diameter? From what I understand, the larger diameter they are, low end is sacrificed for high end. I am interested in bumping up the low/mid range power band as I am not interested in peak power for the street. Let me know your thoughts.

    Art

  35. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksoholm View Post
    I think a few things are standing in the way:
    1. The true, old, adage: Want a faster bike, buy a faster bike. VFR800s, while somewhat quick, are now far down the ladder of acceleration. Any will be challenged hard by quite a few cars now, and blown into the weeds by a good few ADVs, many street fighters, and all 600s just flat disappear. A header system won't change that one bit.
    2. 6-9 HP on top is 7-9% more power, hardly anything, and may, critically, come at the expense of the overall power curve. It would be something like 2-3 MPH more in the quarter. I would never sacrifice an iota of low-end torque for a dash of top-end HP. By 1998, manufacturers' exhaust designs had come far; it's very hard to improve overall on what the top-drawer engineers at Honda created, and impossible today.
    3. The cost--for $1K, you can buy two new factory header systems, which, even in wet weather riding, would last you 10-15 years.
    4. If an actual design produced significantly more areas under the curves--power and torque--there would be more interest.
    5. For $1K, you can buy two full days of track school, like California Superbike School, which would make the overall package far faster. A VFR's real-world speed comes from being fast enough to hang with anything in the real world because their riders are better riders. True for any bike, actually.
    6. Destroy the most hopped up VFR800 (not talking about goofy supercharger kits) by simply spending $7K on a VFR1200--see 1 above.
    7. Spending $1K on slight improvements on an exhaust on a $2-5K bike is dodgy and terrible value. A far better value is spending that on suspension, which has massive, positive effects during 100% of riding time, and changes the character of the bike.

    These are some of what I see are reasons why folks aren't interested.

    Best,

    Kristian
    That is pretty funny considering that the Two brothers header raised my 1/4 mie trap speed from 120 to 128mph, untuned, I am sure it is a little stronger after welding a wide band in each primary and closed loop tuning. Also Mohawk's dynos have proven that there is no loss in the 3000-8000 range, with large gains in the 8000 and up range. If you are not willing to give up any power in the <3000 range for more in the >8000 range, you must have a lazy clutch hand and shifter foot lol. You would be very surprised at just how much difference 7-9% really can be.
    My two brothers header is at least 15 years old. It is doing fine.
    I am sure a vfr1200 will pull on me at speeds over 120, but I would find it hard to believe it would fair as well in the turns, being 600 vs 460 pounds.
    Why can't one have suspension/brakes and a header. Why must one chose header or suspension?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksoholm View Post
    As exhaust system design is complex, and as we are trying to outdo what Honda's vast engineering braintrust accomplished with overall power and torque as goals, I think hiring Mike Velasco for some consultation would lend the project significant technical credibility, though I say this without knowing whether anyone involved is an engineer.

    Kristian
    You honestly sound just like the Motad sales Rep lol.

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  37. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBoy View Post
    Simulation software can significantly decrease the amount of dyno time required to perfect the design. Although some home built exhaust systems look cool, the chances that they actually perform are quite low. You have to factor in the engine configuration and dimensions and include those measurements in the design. You aren't going to design and build a well performing exhaust system for $600, unless you happen to know an engineer with the right software and know how that is willing to do you a solid.

    Food for thought: http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...technology.htm

    You need to initiate the process by working with somebody like this: https://www.goodfabs.com/materials

    The design is more important than the fabrication.
    I have seen Mohawk's before and after (which you comically labeled fake), there was no real world compromise and great top end gains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBoy View Post
    What I was attempting to convey is that you don't just start changing primary diameters and lengths without at least modeling it first. Anyway, best of luck to you and I would be interested to see the dyno numbers when you get done.
    We would all love to see your dyno numbers as well lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba5466 View Post
    I guess my question is with all of the generations and different header configurations is this going to be generation specific or as I have the 8th is it possible to fit on my and others 8th gen? I see that you are working with a 6th generation. Interest is always there but not if the end result benefits on gen over the other. let me know. Thanks

    Mike D.
    I can confirm the 5th gen two brothers header works on my 6th gen, but you having the 8th with the front mount radiators, may present a challenge.


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