Trying to revive my 98 VFR, help?

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by hillm1234, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. hillm1234

    hillm1234 New Member

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    1998 VFR sat in garage for about a year with a full tank of gas with Stabil. Unfortunately, the gas tank rusted. Went from shiny and new to looking real real bad. Not sure what led to it. The filler cap was very difficult to open and there was some weird gray powdery corrosion all over it on the inside which wiped away easily with a rag. The interior of the tank showed a lot of more traditional red/brown rust. I had the battery out of the bike for this whole time, so I'm wondering if something galvanic happened between the two metals without a negative anode tied to the frame? Anyway, not really important now.

    With all the rust in the tank, it also ruined my fuel pump. The distinctive whine wasn't there when I turned ignition on. I pulled it out (the rubber shroud had disintegrated and the steel wool looking stuff was bad too). Bought one off ebay and replaced it, and cleaned the tank up pretty good with vinegar. Although the assembly I bought was for a 2001, it fit and the pump model is the same. Only difference appeared to be the fuel filter is a different model on the 2001. I don't think this matters, but figured I'd mention it. The whine returned and I tried to start her up. Cranks but won't start at all.

    Went thru basic Air/Spark/Compression/Fuel process.

    Air filter and air box look good. No critters.

    Checked plugs. Look good, spark good when grounded to frame. Haven't seen them "wet" but haven't specifically hurried to check them after cranking.

    Getting puffs of "air" out of exhaust so hoping that's a good sign for compression.

    When I'm cranking it, it shows about 200RPM and speeds up to about 900RPM when I open the throttle.

    The choke lever seems to be opening the starter valves as you would expect. I don't completely understand how the starter valves work. Could they be plugged with rust and would that be a problem?

    Took fuel return line off and I'm getting fuel back when I turn on the ignition. This sorta surprised me cause I expected that if rust got through the filter and out of the tank that it would have plugged up something to fuel rail and/or the fuel pressure regulator.

    I'm to the point where I'm suspecting clogged injectors, so I'm heading that direction.

    I've taken the lower air box off (that's NOT fun). Looking at the throttle body, I was surprised/disappointed to find it's a lot harder to remove injectors in the 98 than in the video that KaldekBoch posted to youtube.

    Before I remove the throttle body and screw something up, I wanted to see if anyone had any other suggestions. I read somewhere that someone said the bike should still start even with clogged injectors. Not sure if that's true but wondering if that has something to do with the starter valves that I don't completely understand.

    Open to suggestions before I try to remove the TB.

    As I'm typing this, the only other thing that comes to mind is to try some starter fluid and see what happens.

    I'm appreciative of any other suggestions and/or validation that I should bite the bullet and remove the TB.

    What is the narrowest point the fuel sees on the way to the cylinder that may be plugged with rust? Injectors? Intake Valves (uggh)?

    Thanks!
     
  2. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Let me understand what you're saying . You are seeing 2000rpms - 9000 with out it running?
     
  3. hillm1234

    hillm1234 New Member

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    No. 200 and 900
     
  4. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    LOL too many zeros, I stand corrected, thanks, . It's still interesting that shows that many rpms, pretty sure the starter can't spin the engine over that fast. I don't recall seeing any rpms when I hit the button prior to starting. I'd try getting some starting fluid and squirt some in each plug, a little dab will do ya here, then see how it fires off. I'm not a big fan of starting fluid, but it has it's place at times. I've done this before with lawn mowers and engines that have sat awhile with decent results and it points me in the right direction. From that you'll know its a fuel issue, which its starting to sound like it is. Hopefully some one here will chime in that had this sort of thing. it is odd to hear even full of fuel the tank rusted even with stab.. takes very little to F things up in the fuel system these days. Hope it pans out for you.
     
  5. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Awe, just like I thought. I went out and cranked up the vfr, but this time I left the choke off knowing it wouldn't start right off, yep no indication of RPMs, pulled in the enriching lever and, Vfrrroom. So IDK if there is a relation here. Be nice to read what others find.
     
  6. Y2Kviffer

    Y2Kviffer Insider

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    Just a sniff of starting fluid as stated is a good idea. Try a little thru the air intake first. May take a few spray, crank, spray crank cycles. It can't be stressed enough ....DON'T spray alot at once!!
     
  7. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    It's interesting that the tank rusted even when it was full.

    Do you know what kind of gas it was? Did it have any Ethanol in it?
     
  8. Lint

    Lint Member

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    If the fuel wasn't treated, it most likely gummed up somewhere. Check the condition of your fuel lines and then clean your injectors. You want to make sure you don't get rust pieces or gum clogging your cleaned injectors. Replace your fuel filter.
     
  9. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    Almost sounds like you filled with e85, with the amount of corrosion you got from sitting for a year even with stabil in there.
    I wouldn't even attempt to start it with out sending the injectors out for ultrasonic cleaning and flow testing, because if your tank is that bad, the injectors are probably in bad shape as well.
     
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  10. hillm1234

    hillm1234 New Member

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    I took the throttle body off this weekend and got to the injectors. Not too bad, other than getting the darn thing separated from the rubber cushions. Broke a little piece off one of the crossbars on the throttle body trying to get it off. I'm going to call it "lightweighting." Also found some long missing stuff that was lost in the V4 valley of death... specifically one of the washers from one of the bolts for the front of the fuel tank and a phillips screwdriver bit that I lost a long time ago when removing the top of the air box.

    I was able to squirt brake cleaner through the injectors with a plunger and a 9V battery. There wasn't any obvious crud, but hard to say there weren't some small pieces.

    I found a set off ebay for $80 that the seller claimed have been ultrasonically cleaned and are ready to go. I've ordered them. Apparently some years of the Honda Civic use the same injectors. I also ordered a new fuel pressure regulator just because it makes me nervous that there may be crud in there too. The only possible odd thing I found was that when I was checking out the vacuum hoses, it's possible the one-way valve was stuck. I blew on it both ways and nothing happened. Then I tried again and it was working. Doubt that would keep it from starting, but maybe.

    Plan is to put it all together next weekend (if the parts arrive) and cross my fingers.
     
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  11. hillm1234

    hillm1234 New Member

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    Here's a pic of the "lightweighted" throttle body. Be careful prying these out, especially if first time it's ever been removed.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. hillm1234

    hillm1234 New Member

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    https://goo.gl/photos/tFP2QJHu67TNGZMJ6

    It's alive!

    New (well, used off ebay) injectors. New fuel pressure regulator.

    Cleaned tank a 2nd time past week using citric acid this time. Cleaned it up pretty well.

    Lessons learned:
    #1: Citric acid will eat up the ends of the "arm" of the fuel level sensor. Fixed with JB Weld Steel Stik (i hope).

    #2: Be very careful when removing the fuel pressure regulator to not cause the two parallel fuel rails to flex the connector so they arent parallel anymore. Was able to get them back square using the throttle body as a fixture. I think i got lucky it didnt cause the connector to leak.

    #3: Be careful how you pry the throttle body out of the rubber cushions. It can break (see earlier post).

    #4: Ethanol gas sucks. And I'm never storing bike without a battery installed again. I'm still 50% thinking that caused my rust to happen faster since there was no sacrificial anode connected to the frame.

    Thanks to everyone who posted here and/or on youtube. Very helpful.
     
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  13. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Yea aren't leasons learned great ;) Now to find time to enjoy the ride huh. Good job on the fix.
     
  14. nicholas042416

    nicholas042416 New Member

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    Do yourself a favor next winter. Find a local race fuel dealer, run your bike damn near out of gas, dump 2 gallons of race gas in it and go for a 10 mile ride and park it. Bet you don't have any issues the next spring.


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  15. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    Lol that was cringe worthy.
     
  16. nicholas042416

    nicholas042416 New Member

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    Everyone has there own way. I've been riding various bikes for 15 years and done this and consistently had nothing but success. Think what you want....works for me bud.

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  17. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    The placebo is strong in this one.
     
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  18. nicholas042416

    nicholas042416 New Member

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    Right...because leaded high octane race fuel with no ethanol can't possibly help.....personal results mean nothing right??? Like I said if you don't like it, don't do it. Don't have to put me down for it bud. Hell I even run some through my lawn mower for a min or two and have no issues there either. More than one way to skin a cat bro.


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  19. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    If you think race gas cleans injectors, you would be amazed what actually cleaning your injectors does.
     
  20. nicholas042416

    nicholas042416 New Member

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    I do both sir, how can you argue that running a higher octane higher quality fuel isn't good for your bike. This argument is stupid man. Like I said before you do what you want and I'll do what I want. No reason to talk crap about it.

    Also I'd like to point out I never said it cleaned your injectors....in fact this has a much more prevalent effect on carbed bikes as they tend to junk up and solidify over the winter. My original post to the original poster was just a suggestion that instead of just parking it he put race gas in and cycle it through vs simply doing nothing or putting a fuel additive.....


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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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