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  1. #121
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    34468 Randy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbilly View Post
    Can you get the dudes here the same employee discount? Ten pesos says that the OEM filters and the oil are farmed out by Honda.

    Heres a question... Lets say an OEM oil filter fails for any one of the reasons in the threads. Do you really think Honda is going to own up to that? I figure that it might happen aboot the same time they own up to the R/R and stator failures.
    I don't think they will BB. But has there been an issue with OEM that we are aware of like the K&N fiasco? I believe that any manufacturer of a product may put out a piece that is defective. What seems to be the issue here is not an item being deficient, but the design of that item, leading to multiple failures that K&N are experiencing....or rather the consumer who buys the shit are experiencing.

    That aside, we now have AM wanting to ride Sniper's equipment while he sits back and drinks beer, and Jim looking at his neighbours equipment because he is blowing things all over the neighbourhood. This thread is really heading in a different direction. Just what kind of society are we living in today?

    I need to go run and hide now. Those nurses with that needle are looking for me.

    Randy IBA # 58558
    I enjoy long romantic walks to the beer fridge.


  2. #122
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    Not that in the end it makes any difference with K&N because clearly they don't appear to care, I wonder if the problem is not the fit of the O ring, but the material that the O ring is made out of. Maybe too soft or too hard that may lead to its failure?
    Randy IBA # 58558
    I enjoy long romantic walks to the beer fridge.


  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbilly View Post
    Not me!!! I have a Scott's filter..

    WIKI has a good overview on Oring functions and compositions. George Moss ( Moss Oring) was European director of Parker-Hannefin. He lived in Holland. He was a graduate of Sewanee. While in Holland he designed and had built a sailboat. Bailed out of P-H and sailed around the world solo. Ran out of pesos, Sold the boat in Newport Beach,CA and with what was left over bought the National Oring franchise for the State of Texas. My deal was with him was out front I was moving from Houston to Seattle. I learned a bunch from a great guy but told him that basically, Orings as a subject are not great opening lines for picking up chicas at taco stands. ;) His response was classic.. (paraphrased) "Yes, Bill but it will buy me another sailboat."
    I installed a PC racing Flo filter on the VFR. It has the same filter elemet as the Scotts, the difference is that the Scotts has a stronger magnet n t and the PC has a drilled nut on it. I talked to both of these companies at length to find out the actual differences as they are almost identical. What i did not find out is how the copy (PC) was done, both parties were mum on the subject but there was a definate pissed off undertone at Scotts. Probaly some patent lawyer didn't dot an i or cross a T and PC made a copy on a loop hole. After a lot of research of partical size, flow tates, valve opening pressure ect I see the distinct advantages of these 2 filters. After I go through the rst of the OEM filters on the CBR I will get one for it, making safety wiring a breeze for track days again.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    I installed a PC racing Flo filter on the VFR. It has the same filter elemet as the Scotts, the difference is that the Scotts has a stronger magnet n t and the PC has a drilled nut on it. I talked to both of these companies at length to find out the actual differences as they are almost identical. What i did not find out is how the copy (PC) was done, both parties were mum on the subject but there was a definate pissed off undertone at Scotts. Probaly some patent lawyer didn't dot an i or cross a T and PC made a copy on a loop hole. After a lot of research of partical size, flow tates, valve opening pressure ect I see the distinct advantages of these 2 filters. After I go through the rst of the OEM filters on the CBR I will get one for it, making safety wiring a breeze for track days again.
    The last time I did a track day it was more ad hoc. The Scott's was on the bike at the time. The safety wire hole is a good idea on any filter.....I have seen way too many times what oil will do to a track if some poor SOB hits it at speed.

    Does your PC filter have the spring steel seal? The Scott's has been on my VFR for years. No weeping, no leaking and when I slosh it with dish detergent and then hose it off, it still looks new.

    For the nay sayers, who are paying fifteen pesos a pop for OEM, it doesn't take long for one or the other of the metal filters to amortize.

    I am content to let the lawyers wrangle on who is nicking from whom...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 34468 Randy View Post
    I don't think they will BB. But has there been an issue with OEM that we are aware of like the K&N fiasco? I believe that any manufacturer of a product may put out a piece that is defective. What seems to be the issue here is not an item being deficient, but the design of that item, leading to multiple failures that K&N are experiencing....or rather the consumer who buys the shit are experiencing.

    That aside, we now have AM wanting to ride Sniper's equipment while he sits back and drinks beer, and Jim looking at his neighbours equipment because he is blowing things all over the neighbourhood. This thread is really heading in a different direction. Just what kind of society are we living in today?

    I need to go run and hide now. Those nurses with that needle are looking for me.
    Unless you have an aversion to needles, not to worry. The one's to be most concerned aboot are the guys in white togs with the big nets.

  6. #126
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    Yeah Billy it has the same spring and turn system as Scotts. Seems the hole in the nut is the big difference.

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    Yeah, I caught that, but consider this: If a simple light hand-tight quality torque, using a wrench, is enough to drive it to failure what about shipping, dropping, manufacturing variability and so on? I have always used a wrench to torque on all my filters from cars to tractors to whatever requires it, with a light torque, not a wrench torque. I just like them a bit more snug that a hand-tight, and I've never been a big believer in hand-tightening filters anyway. So it was a light wrench-on torque that caused the failure. Consider holding the filter in your hand and wrenching the nut. It was that level of torque.

    And if that's enough to cause failure, I'm out. That implies a drop might be enough to drive it to failure.

    I'm an engineer who has been in manufacturing for a few decades, and have been in quality and product servicing the automotive industry. I'm currently in a job bringing up a company to automotive standards. Those standards are some of the most stringent in the world, with good reason, right up there with medical and space (space is the TOUGHEST!), and I'm telling you, there is no way this filter passed a simple drop-test, which is one of the many, many quality control standards that are required. My guess is KM dropped the filter in such a way that the nut was not impacted -- in other words, it dropped the filter on its feet instead of its head. If they had dropped this thing nut-down, it would have failed qual and never been accepted, if it even passed and ever was accepted.

    Anyway, it's a fail mode, argue user error all you want and I won't disagree, I am really good a farking shayt up, but it's a failure mode, and it's a non-zero failure mode. It's not a matter of if it will fail, just a matter of when.

  8. #128
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    Sounds like somebody dropped a shitload of those K&N oil filters.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTrant View Post
    . I just like them a bit more snug that a hand-tight, and I've never been a big believer in hand-tightening filters anyway. .
    You're simply compressing an o-ring. The seal is only going to improve as the temperature increases.

    There's a reason the 3 finger adjustable filter wrenches open when you turn them clockwise. They're made for removal only.


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