6th Gen fork internals upgrade

[bradleydadley]

I've read somewhere, but swear I can't find it, that F4/F4i fork cartridges can be put into 6th gen shocks. This provides compression, rebound and dampening thus making for a highly tuned ride.

Anybody know what fits in the 2007 forks?

[tsiah]

I thought those were inverted shocks...?

[jasonsmith]

There's a fella here who can tell you all you need to know (not me) but I am fairly sure that nothing will fit in our forks without machining. I may be wrong but for some reason that's what I'm thinking. The usual is springs, valves and oil, which I would imagine if set up correctly will suit you just fine.

[bradleydadley]

Yes. thanks, guys. It's not that bad as she sits. Sag is good. I think the fork oil needs to be a hair lighter. Rebound is slow. Maybe I'll just leave her alone. Thanks!

[mello dude]

Originally Posted by bradleydadley

I've read somewhere, but swear I can't find it, that F4/F4i fork cartridges can be put into 6th gen shocks. This provides compression, rebound and dampening thus making for a highly tuned ride.

Anybody know what fits in the 2007 forks?

If you wanted to you could drop in F4i forks into the triple trees of a 6th gen.
Of course you would have to buy brake calipers, master cylinder and bits a pieces to get it all to together. Then you have to do a brake delink too.

An alternative is to use F4i lowers with the VFR800 upper tubes and would have to change the brakes out also.

-- If you were talking about taking the internal guts from the F4i fork itself and installing it in the VFR800 fork assembly, I dont see any reason why that wouldnt work either. You make have to shim it a bit to get it to length. It may take some tinkering.

You make consider RaceTech or Traxxion Dynamics for upgrades too.

If you are really ambitious, a lot of guys go with RC51 forks or I've seen a nice R1 set-up.

For a rough idea of the job, Check out the links in my signature.

Good luck,
MD

[bradleydadley]

-- If you were talking about taking the internal guts from the F4i fork itself and installing it in the VFR800 fork assembly, I dont see any reason why that wouldnt work either. You make have to shim it a bit to get it to length. It may take some tinkering.


Good luck,
MD[/quote]

Thanks, MD. Yeah, I've got some internals from a 2000 F4 I'm going to try at GP Suspension out here. They are really good at what they do, just not as popular as Race Tech. Dave is going to give the internals a try and will shim where necessary. You know, the setup is pretty good on the VFR stock. Unless a guy buys a Ohlins equipped machine off the showroom, stock suspension usually requires some adjustments. I'm over 250 lbs so the rear is maxed out on the stock shock and the fronts could use .95 springs, but really, she handles well. Just want to make it razor sharp for the times I leave the bags at home and follow the boys in the mountains. Thanks, again.

[Meatloaf]

I've read several posts about it but I have never sought out the exact details on it. I think you just have to snag the internals and the fork caps at the top and they are basically a drop in upgrade to the forks. Of course while they are out you can upgrade the internals in the cartridges as well for a very finely tuned ride.

I really hope someone with the specific knowledge on this chimes in because I want to know as well. While I'm a ways away from doing this, it is still handy to have the knowledge before getting into the project. It makes for excellent planning.

[mello dude]

Originally Posted by Meatloaf

I've read several posts about it but I have never sought out the exact details on it. I think you just have to snag the internals and the fork caps at the top and they are basically a drop in upgrade to the forks. Of course while they are out you can upgrade the internals in the cartridges as well for a very finely tuned ride.

I really hope someone with the specific knowledge on this chimes in because I want to know as well. While I'm a ways away from doing this, it is still handy to have the knowledge before getting into the project. It makes for excellent planning.

I'm guessing on the F4i stuff - the suspension shop will have to take a look.
- But I did a parallel job though but same idea, my 5th gen forks are VFR upper tubes, Super Hawk lowers, Super Hawk base guts, Traxxion Dynamics upgrade, Hyper pro 1.0 spring, SH fork caps for adjustments. So that's why I'm thinking that you would have a pretty good shot to take the F4i guts and get them to work internally to the 6th VFR800 upper/lower fork legs.

--That's a damn good idea, never had thought of it before this. Keep us up on how it goes.

MD

[myke_w]

I'm subscribed to this thread and I'll be watching for the F4 compatibility info.

I really need to get the suspension on my 08 sorted, I'm coming from an 03 SV with a gixxer radial conversion and I'm really feeling it. Though for a stock setup I don't feel like it's horrible, and with a little work I'm hoping I can live with it.

I'm relieved that the VFR fork legs are large enough in diameter to resist deflection in most street braking situations, and that it's starting out as a cartridge front.

One question (don't want to thread jack) can valves or accessories from a vendor like race tech give us any more adjust-ability on rebound and compression? or are they fixed once theyre in?

[Meatloaf]

I know that RaceTech offers rebound emulators however those are internal to the forks. They are adjustable to adjustment requires the internals to be removed. I've heard good things about them.

This is my understanding of other options.... so please someone correcet me if I am wrong here. The F4i internals or the Traxxion Dynamics cartridges offer the ability to externally adjust compression through replacement fork caps. This gives you compression and preload at the top of the forks. I've not heard of anyone being able to add external rebound to the stock forks because of how it would have to be mounted to the fork sliders and drilled in, etc.

The only way to add both external rebound and compression is to replace the forks entirely... This can be done in numerous different front end conversions but usually comes at the cost of the loss of linked brakes, ABS if it is on the bike, and many other complications that have to be worked out.

Almost everyone is happy with the results of upgrading the internals with what is readily available. Few go to the extent of swapping the front ends.

[myke_w]

So do most folks that don't do swaps just make the front rebound match the rear by way of just adjusting the rear? The stock rear on an 08 does have rebound adjustability correct? or is that just compression??

[Meatloaf]

I believe so. Most that you will find will just do the revalving and spring the forks per their own weight. I've not talked with anyone that has added the rebound emulators to their forks on the VFR but would love to hear from someone that has.

The rear shock is only preload and rebound adjustable, no compression.

[02 VFR Rider]

I asked same ?? on 6th gen but only got links to 5th gen fork swaps.

So anyone know anything about the 6th gens??
I don't want to take forks apart to adjust them.

Also anyone know anything on swapping a rear shock from another bike w/ comp and rebound adjustment, ride height adjusment a plus as well ??

[02 VFR Rider]

hey any of our Euro brothers have the low down on the Euro only CB1000R front end swaping with a 6th gen VFR ?????

[Meatloaf]

Originally Posted by 02 VFR Rider

Also anyone know anything on swapping a rear shock from another bike w/ comp and rebound adjustment, ride height adjusment a plus as well ??

There are lots of threads pertaining to this question. You will find a lot of them focusing on a 929, 954, or F4 shock. There are either some modifications necessary or sacrifices when going this route... such as suspension travel IIRC.

[JamieDaugherty]

Just to clarify - the stock VFR forks have both compression and rebound valves from the factory. What they do not have is external adjustments for damping. Their only feature is spring preload adjustment.

Swapping out the caps and rebound rods from an F4 or F4i is possible and really pretty easy. It would add external rebound damping adjustment only. Keep in mind that this is low speed damping adjustment only, the high speed damping is controlled by the valve pistons and the shim stacks. Additionally, the biggest gains are had by improving the compression damping, this swap would do nothing to improve that.

As I mentioned, it's simple and easy. If you find a set of slighty bent F4 forks on eBay it can be pretty cheap too.

[myke_w]

Thanks guys! This is a really active forum!

Anybody have a cheat sheet on what year F4 internals will do the job in the 6th gen tubes?

[02 VFR Rider]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Just to clarify - the stock VFR forks have both compression and rebound valves from the factory. What they do not have is external adjustments for damping. Their only feature is spring preload adjustment.

Swapping out the caps and rebound rods from an F4 or F4i is possible and really pretty easy. It would add external rebound damping adjustment only. Keep in mind that this is low speed damping adjustment only, the high speed damping is controlled by the valve pistons and the shim stacks. Additionally, the biggest gains are had by improving the compression damping, this swap would do nothing to improve that.

As I mentioned, it's simple and easy. If you find a set of slighty bent F4 forks on eBay it can be pretty cheap too.

any way at all short of swapping the front end to get comp and rebound external adjustment?? high and low speed ??
and any info on a rear shock swap for 6th gen??
others have posted it has been done but I only find info on 5th gens not 6th.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by myke_w

Anybody have a cheat sheet on what year F4 internals will do the job in the 6th gen tubes?

All years of CBR600F4 and CBR600F4i are the same and all will work.

Originally Posted by 02 VFR Rider

any way at all short of swapping the front end to get comp and rebound external adjustment?? high and low speed ??
and any info on a rear shock swap for 6th gen??
others have posted it has been done but I only find info on 5th gens not 6th.

The only front end that has high and low speed external adjustment is the lastest version of the R6. The high speed adjustment doesn't really do anything either. External high speed adjustment is just starting to become common on aftermarket shocks.

A full front end swap is difficult because the VFR requires pretty long forks for clearance. RC51's are possible, and some have made R1 forks work as well. The late model CBR's are too short to fit without extra effort (read: money).

[jazclrint]

Jamie's right. The only way to get external rebound and compression is to buy a set high zoot racing forks. Get a set of slightly bent F4/F4i forks, take out the internals, get them shimmed for you weight and riding style, and matching springs and oil, and adjust the pre-load and rebound from there. As far as the shock, just get a Penske 4-way adjustable. I did this same exact thing with my '91 VFR (only F3 fork internal) and the results were amazing. I played with the rear shock a lot, but the forks were settled. I didn't play with them much. I talk in the past tense because my VFR is still in pieces in my brother's garage. But that's all you need to do. If you buy an F4 shock, you'll still need to have it tuned and it's really worth it to just go aftermarket.
Rich

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by jazclrint

Jamie's right. The only way to get external rebound and compression is to buy a set high zoot racing forks. Get a set of slightly bent F4/F4i forks, take out the internals, get them shimmed for you weight and riding style, and matching springs and oil, and adjust the pre-load and rebound from there. As far as the shock, just get a Penske 4-way adjustable. I did this same exact thing with my '91 VFR (only F3 fork internal) and the results were amazing. I played with the rear shock a lot, but the forks were settled. I didn't play with them much. I talk in the past tense because my VFR is still in pieces in my brother's garage. But that's all you need to do. If you buy an F4 shock, you'll still need to have it tuned and it's really worth it to just go aftermarket.
Rich

On the topic of rear shocks, it's often suggested, as jaz does, to go straight to an aftermarket shock. What is missed is that there are other options that are cheaper that can net you the same result. Going with an F4 or 929RR rear isn't a bad choice and even with valving adjustments it would be a fraction of the cost of a Penske or Ohlins. Revalving the stock VFR shock is rarely considered but they actually perform very well with that modification. For the cost it's tough to beat a revalved/resprung stock shock. You can get that done for $300, add a "1" to the front for a cost of a Penske or Ohlins shock! For street riders the performance difference (if any) would be small enough that it would tough to justify the extra $1000.

[jazclrint]

Again, Jamie is right. However, I only paid $750 for my Penske through traxxion dynamics, and it came set up for me and my bike. The shock may be more now, as that was 5 years ago. But I don't think they are $1300 now.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by jazclrint

Again, Jamie is right. However, I only paid $750 for my Penske through traxxion dynamics, and it came set up for me and my bike. The shock may be more now, as that was 5 years ago. But I don't think they are $1300 now.

Not a bad deal at all! What I like about upgrading the stock shocks is that you can get the same performance for half price (at least). The last time I checked, Traxxion/Penske, Ohlins, and pretty much all others use a standard valving set and just change the spring for each rider. That's not really what I would call being "setup", but it's certainly better than stock!

[jazclrint]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Not a bad deal at all! What I like about upgrading the stock shocks is that you can get the same performance for half price (at least). The last time I checked, Traxxion/Penske, Ohlins, and pretty much all others use a standard valving set and just change the spring for each rider. That's not really what I would call being "setup", but it's certainly better than stock!

Ummm, that is not how they used to do it as far as I know. That was why I ordered through traxxion. My bike also came with a dyno chart, showing how the shock performed on their chassis dyno. It did have the rebound set way too high (which I fixed), but it worked really well. I'm pretty fussy on my setup on both motorcycles and bicycles, and this shock works really well. If it is standard valving, it's standard valving that works. Both compression and rebound adjustments work for the range I'm in. Ohlins I can see doing that because they just ship them from Europe. But my Penske was made for me as per Traxxion's instructions. That's the impression I get. I also got preload and ride height with the shock. Not sure if the stock showa shocks get all that. But it is much cheaper to just have them rebuild, that's for sure Also, I got my Penske with the knowledge that if it wasn't setup right I could keep sending it back until I was happy. You crack open a showa and you've voided the warranty, I believe. But that's if there is any warrenty left. The showa route is much cheaper, and performance is going to be real close. I'm not sure I can agree that it will be as good, but I am talking inths, and I'm biased. :D

Rich

[mello dude]

Originally Posted by jazclrint

Ummm, that is not how they used to do it as far as I know. That was why I ordered through traxxion. My bike also came with a dyno chart, showing how the shock performed on their chassis dyno. It did have the rebound set way too high (which I fixed), but it worked really well. I'm pretty fussy on my setup on both motorcycles and bicycles, and this shock works really well. If it is standard valving, it's standard valving that works. Both compression and rebound adjustments work for the range I'm in. Ohlins I can see doing that because they just ship them from Europe. But my Penske was made for me as per Traxxion's instructions. That's the impression I get. I also got preload and ride height with the shock. Not sure if the stock showa shocks get all that. But it is much cheaper to just have them rebuild, that's for sure Also, I got my Penske with the knowledge that if it wasn't setup right I could keep sending it back until I was happy. You crack open a showa and you've voided the warranty, I believe. But that's if there is any warrenty left. The showa route is much cheaper, and performance is going to be real close. I'm not sure I can agree that it will be as good, but I am talking inths, and I'm biased. :D

Rich

- You guys got me curious - I had to dig up my file on the Penske shock I had bought from Traxxion about 3 (4?) years ago. (Model 8981 dual adjustable) It is set up to my weight and riding style plus the length of the line of the adjuster cylinder is set(cut) to my spec length. Shock was $661.00 plus the spring was $95.00 - so $756.00 --- Cant complain at all, I got a custom shock to my specs. --- No regrets. BTW the shock itself just oozes quality, each component looks custom. Super nice piece.

MD

[jazclrint]

Opps, didn't know I might be stepping on you business toes Jamie. Sorry.

Daugherty Motorsports - Motorcycle Suspension Performance and Modification

[NorcalBoy]

Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty

Not a bad deal at all! What I like about upgrading the stock shocks is that you can get the same performance for half price (at least). The last time I checked, Traxxion/Penske, Ohlins, and pretty much all others use a standard valving set and just change the spring for each rider. That's not really what I would call being "setup", but it's certainly better than stock!

I expected so much more from you JD.........

[bradleydadley]

Just an update, guys. GP Suspension in Oregon City, put in some F4 internals I had purchased on ebay. In addition, Dave and Ben also put in their valving, shimmed and loaded me up with .95 springs, changed the oil, etc. Perfect. Now the darn thing turns in quick and holds the line through the corner extremely well. I didn't notice the pounding I was taking with the rebound prior to the upgrade, but notice it now that it's gone! If you push the bike on the sport side, this is a great mod worth doing.

As for the Penske, I agree. I don't have one on Vociferous, but just put one on my track bike. It's most excellent. Highly encourage the upgrade. I think I'll ride the Viffer on the stock shock prior to making an upgrade there. All-in-all, the VFR's stock setup is quite adequate. But if you indulge in the suspension upgrades, you will thank yourself for it. Better to be able to brake hard and corner well than sound like you can...

Thanks to all for the great advice.

[JamieDaugherty]

Originally Posted by bradleydadley

Just an update, guys. GP Suspension in Oregon City, put in some F4 internals I had purchased on ebay. In addition, Dave and Ben also put in their valving, shimmed and loaded me up with .95 springs, changed the oil, etc. Perfect. Now the darn thing turns in quick and holds the line through the corner extremely well. I didn't notice the pounding I was taking with the rebound prior to the upgrade, but notice it now that it's gone! If you push the bike on the sport side, this is a great mod worth doing.

The GP suspension valves work very well indeed. I'm not surprised that you like your setup! Correct springs and revalving the forks, even with the stock caps, makes a big improvement in the handling for sure.