'96 VFR that sat too long

[eadc]

Hi, new to the forums, so if there's a better place for me to be posting this, please steer me that way.

I just bought a 1996 Interceptor (750) on Wednesday. The bike had been sitting for a little over a year in a barn, covered. On Wed, with the help of jump starting, we got it to start. We had to let it run for about 30 minutes, let it pop and clean out some junk, I rode it for about 5 minutes and decided to buy it. That night we put a new battery in, and some Sea Foam.

today we brought it into DC on a pick-up to get it inspected, but now it won't start. We tried jumping it, no dice. Throughout the day we: changed the spark plugs, drained the radiator, siphoned out most of the gas, added dry gas, add new high octane gas. It'll run with the choke all the way on, but sounds like it wants to quit. By the end of the night we got it to run for 10 minutes, but when I tried to pop it in gear it died.

Some theories being floated around by all who helped out:
1) there's still old gas in the lines, it needs to burn out
2) we need to sea foam the carbs, clean out the gunk, and let it run
3) we need a new fuel filter

Anyone have this experience before? Words of wisdom?
I'm looking forward to riding this bike when it starts running. It was great
for those 5 minutes.
thanks,
-Eric

[SLOVFR]

I would start with a new fuel filter, fresh gas and add in some Chevron techron to the gas to help clean the carbs. Try to start in and let it idle for as long as you can. Let it sit over night then try it again and see if you can get it to rev and ride. may take a tank or 2 of good gas to get it to run right

[DVMSVFR]

Eric,
I know this doesn't help now but I have a 94 that sat for a while and before attempting to start it I took it to a mechanic to have all the above inspected and replaced as needed like filters etc before stuff getting to the carbs. The gas tank had to be lined because this particular bike was stored with an empty gas tank. I hope you can get everything cleaned out and running well. Its a great bike.
Brian

[RVFR]

Man hate to read this, to great a bike to be having trouble with. I say same as above. You had it running before in a worse case scenario so I'm thinking fuel filter as it ran then plugged up.

[drewl]

If it stalled when dropped into gear, you might check the kickstand safety switch. My yamaha did that when I had fuse box issues-reattached all the wires and worked just fine after that.

[eadc]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

We did check the kick stand, just in case, it was ok.

I'll get a fuel filter and some Chevron later this week. On the other VFR
board, folks were suggesting I put some sea foam in the carbs, too.
Anyone have experience with that? How much do you use? How long should it
sit for?

I'm dying to ride, wish my week wasn't so busy.
I'll keep you posted, cheers,
-Eric

[SLOVFR]

Originally Posted by drewl

If it stalled when dropped into gear, you might check the kickstand safety switch. My yamaha did that when I had fuse box issues-reattached all the wires and worked just fine after that.

Good call on that Drewl! I forgot about the switch too...

[eadc]

Update from the original post:

I had the bike in the shop for 2 weeks, they cleaned the carbs, twice, put in new jets, flushed the tank, put in a new fuel filter,
went over the basics (chain, etc.)

They say the issues that I'll have to deal with at some point:
- exhaust leak from the rear headers (missing one screw, the other isn't in all the way)
- new tires (no problem)
- rust in the tank
- I need to change the oil (they offered to do it, I was trying to save money at this point)

I rode it home yesterday (about 15 / 20 miles), and it rode fine. Smelled a little exhausty and like it's running rich.
Parked it out front, went away for about 5 hours, came back and rode for a few hours and it was still fine. I went to a
BBQ and while I was there, it rained a little. This time when I tried to start the bike, I had to choke it all the way (didn't choke
it earlier in the day at all). When it started, it idled very low when all the way choked, and if I cut back the choke it would die.
If I gave it gas, it would die. So I let it run for awhile, slowly giving it more gas, slowly taking off the choke. After about 10 minutes
I got it going, though it felt pretty hot, smelled a bit, and I rode it around for about 30 minutes, seemed fine. Parked it on the street
last night, it rained some more, and this morning it started slow again. I did something similar to last night, but it didn't take as long
to get going. It sat, covered, in front of a friend's house for a few hours, it rained a bit, and when I left the bike started fine. Went to
lunch, it rained like crazy, and when I left it was back to starting slow. I got it going, but then at the first traffic light it died, and wouldn't
re-start. It's sitting up there now, I'm going to try it later on tonight, maybe it'll be drier?

Anyone have any guesses? The rain seems like it might be a factor, but I'm not sure why. I just know that yesterday during the day it was dry
and at my friend's today it was covered, both times it started fine. I know I need new oil, but I checked and it has some, doesn't look too bad
for sitting as long as it did.

Getting pretty frustrated, I had it to ride for a day and now it's dead again.

thoughts?

[RVFR]

The one word that caught my attention was RUST! that's a biggy if you have any at all in the fuel it will cause problems

[DVMSVFR]

Can't say for sure, but rust in the tank is suspicious. I would get a new tank or have that one lined by someone who knows what they are doing. If you go with the latter, make sure you do your homework and have someone who knows what their doing do the job.

[hondabill]

if it starts hard when its wet check plug wires and coils and definetly get the tank cleaned out and lined. some shops dont always clean the carbs out near good enough.

[eadc]

I went back tonight, well after the rain had stopped, and it started just fine.
I'm guessing this points to something electrical and not the rust (yet). It's late, but I'll look around tomorrow to see if I can find any connection issues.

The weird thing is, when it was damp yesterday and this morning (much lighter rain had fallen), it started, just too a long time to get to a point where it'd take some throttle. And then with the hard rain, it started for a bit, and they died outright. I'd think that something electric would be all or nothing, no?

anyways, we'll see what comes out in the light of day.
thanks,
-Eric

[VFRav8r]

Hey Eric,

It all sounds way too familar to me. I bought my 97 VFR a little over a year ago with only 4,800 miles on the clock, and she had been sitting in a garage for about two years with a full tank of fuel. She would only "barely" run with full choke, and would normally die with a partial increase in throttle. If I could get past the point that the carbs could open up (at around 5,000 to 7,000 rpm you could close the choke, but you had to keep the revs up or she would die with the choke off. Yep and you guessed it, high relative humidity made it much worse.

I ran two tanks (with 8 ounces of Sea Foam each) through her and let her sit for a couple of days each time. That should have worked for light cleaning, but she was in far worse shape, and eventually I had to have the carbs professionally cleaned and synchronized by a local Honda shop.

Sea Foam is the best product for freeing up carb build up period, but I did not get her soon enough. She did not need any parts replaced, and the shop tech cleaned/inspected the tank (no rust-full tank when stored thank goodness) and changed the fuel filter just to be safe, but it did take him two weeks to throughly get them cleaned. They were heavily laquered. He did an excellent job and I have logged 8,500 miles since.

I now only run Chevron premium grade fuel that contains Techron. By the way, I still run a can of Sea Foam through her about every 2,000 just for insurance. Sea Foam got its start from a need to clean inboard/outboard marine engines way back in the 40's.

I hope you get your VFR squared away! DO NOT GIVE UP!!! They are the greatest engineered bikes on earth!! If Porcshe made a motorcycle this would be it! VFR........ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!!

[eadc]

At this point I'm running pretty well, passed inspection, and am on it about every day. What's gone down is:
- the shop cleaned the carbs (twice) and rejetted, did some minor adjustments
- I flushed out the gas tank, changed the oil, the brake and clutch fluid, the radiator fluid and put new (lightly used from a friend) on it.

Since that first weekend, I haven't had rain issues, but I've mainly ridden when it's dry. Last night I came out of grad school to find it raining steadily, seemed to have been raining awhile. Bike started up fine, ran a little funny, little hot, but it got home no problems. Today I had it covered (parked on the street) when a series of t-storms hit, and same thing - started fine, runs a little funny, little hot.

Next free weekend I have I'm going to try everything folks said:
1) check the R/R
2) go through all the connections with some steel wool (gently)
3) follow the spark plug cables, make sure all is well there

We'll see, but for now it's a great bike to ride.
cheers.

[BadAndy]

I would be curious to see how this pans out for you but the coincidence of rain and problems starting/running sound very familiar to something that happened to my 97 this past weekend.

On Sunday we had one of those thickly humid New York 95F days with threats of thunderstorms. I followed some dual-sport friends a mile or two down a muddy, rutted, rock-strewn trail (yes, on my VFR!), we took a short break by a stream, the thunderstorm rolled in, I got tired of wearing my helmet as a rain hat and hit the starter switch. Uh-oh!

Only way it would run at all was with full choke, and then only for seconds at a time. Touching the throttle was almost like hitting the kill switch.

Electrics seemed OK, fueling seemed OK, etc. Onlooker consensus was something vacuum, breathing or related.

Luckily I was with people who know more about carbs than I do. After some fishing around, one of them noticed the little "sub air filter", opened up the small box, and observed that the orange material inside had semi-solidified, then crumbled upon removal. As soon as that foam was gone the bike started up fine, no choke (was still warm).

I'm sure that filter has been borderline for a while and it just took the soupy air of a forest trail during a rain storm and fog to reduce the airflow to the point of failure.

The only decent explanation I found on the Internet regarding this gadget is this one:

"Your constant velocity carburetor relies on a diaphram/slide combination to correctly meter fuel. This diaphragm works by moving up and down in response to varying engine demand. The secondary air filter is meant to keep dirt and debris from entering an air hose that supplies air to the carb that helps modulate the slide. Any dirt or debris that might enter could hinder diaphram/slide movement which in turn reduces your carb's ability to respond rapidly to changing engine demands."

Presumably if this filter is clogged, the slide won't operate and so nor will the engine.

Betcha' most folks, including most shops, ignore that little box. It's more profitable to just sell you a $50 air filter that you probably didn't need anyway.

YMMV...

[Rev]

^^^hmm, i think i better check/replace mine; i never have.

[VT Viffer]

You might just want to have a replacement on hand when you go to "check" it - mine disintegrated upon removal.

Currently replaced on my bike with a scrap of polar fleece.

[BadAndy]

Originally Posted by VT Viffer

You might just want to have a replacement on hand when you go to "check" it - mine disintegrated upon removal.
Currently replaced on my bike with a scrap of polar fleece.

What I've read is that most of the dirt-capturing ability of a foam filter is actually in the oil you're supposed to soak it with, but I guess a piece of fleece is better than nothing.

And speaking of that oil, WEAR GLOVES when you apply it and squeeze out all the excess.

That oil is nasty, tenacious stuff.

-Brad

[eadc]

Wow, that sounds like my problem exactly. Bike idles low, touch the throttle and it dies. The first day I had the bike we had the tank and air filter off, but I don't remember seeing a sub-filter. And I looked through the Clymer's manual and couldn't find something fitting this description. Can anyone point me where I could find a diagram of this? Or tell me where to go once I have the tank and air filter off? This is exciting news, I 'm leaving Thursday for a 5-day trip, and the east coast has been having some crazy rain this spring.

If I can get this and the R/R sorted out beforehand, I'll be in business.

[eadc]

Sorry to double post, but in this diagram, is #6 (Filter, Sub/A Cleaner) the part we're talking about?

Free State Cycle's Honda Street Bike Parts Finder

This is a local shop and the only place I know where to find breakdowns like this. I