using clutch when shifting up?

[w0oter]

so i've always disengaged the clutch when shifting up but i've recently read that you can leave it engaged and just decelerate. I tried it on my 97 vfr 750 and it won't let me shift up without the clutch. is it supposed to be that way? can anyone in here with a 97 vfr shift up without holding the clutch lever in?

[Lgn001]

It is possible with almost any manual transmission to upshift and downshift without using the clutch. It is a matter of matching the transmission input shaft speed to the output shaft speed. Typically when upshifting on a bike, you put a little bit of pressure on the shift lever with your foot, snap the throttle off and back on quickly. In the brief moment that the shafts are unloaded, the sliding parts are free to move. The same thing applies to downshifting, but you apply a little bit of throttle instead of chopping it.

Unless you are really good at it, it will damage parts. And while you are learning to do it, you will damage parts. Besides the long term damage that will eventually make the transmission difficult to shift and "jump out of gear" under load, the short term damage is the hardened little bits of metal that get knocked off the engagement "dogs", as they are called. Although they will get stopped by the oil filter if they make it that far, they do have to go through the oil pump first. Transmission parts are hardened, as in brittle, so when pieces break off they are not smooth and round. They are pointy with sharp edges. And there is also the possibility that they will get in between the mating faces of the gears.

[VT Viffer]

Don't do that.

[Molsan]

OH...and hear i thought it was so neat when shifting with out the clutch...

[Scubalong]

Originally Posted by w0oter

so i've always disengaged the clutch when shifting up but i've recently read that you can leave it engaged and just decelerate. I tried it on my 97 vfr 750 and it won't let me shift up without the clutch. is it supposed to be that way? can anyone in here with a 97 vfr shift up without holding the clutch lever in?

Is there a benefit to this? Engineering design the cluth for purpose.

[derstuka]

Always use the clutch if you want your bike to last. As Long stated, it is there for a reason. LGN gave a rave explanation as always. Hats off to you sir! with a fish slap for myself

[Molsan]

well thats why i read this website....no more of that!
Intelligence is not what you know, but what you can learn.

[MileHighInterceptor]

Though is is possible to do, it shouldn't be done on these bikes. It is done on race bikes with slipper clutches, or simply bikes with slippers. I've tried it a few times on mine and don't like how it feels anyway; far too clunky. Not good for the gear box.

[mello dude]

Originally Posted by w0oter

so i've always disengaged the clutch when shifting up but i've recently read that you can leave it engaged and just decelerate. I tried it on my 97 vfr 750 and it won't let me shift up without the clutch. is it supposed to be that way? can anyone in here with a 97 vfr shift up without holding the clutch lever in?

On your slowing down question, I hope you downshift thru every gear when coming to a stop.


Shifting up....
On most dirtbikes the clutch is used for mostly starting out and coming to a stop. In between it is mostly tap the lever and match the throttle for the shift direction you need. Been quite a while since I played with that.

On street bikes, you could do the same thing although most people dont. I do it once in a great while just for practice. If I went to the track, I would do it quite a bit more. I have even done it on my big ass Valkrie.

Basically the technique is to put some foot pressure on the level and pull up in to gear - while at the same time very quickly crack the throttle off for a microsecond. If you did it right you will be in the next gear. I dont do it to down shift on the street.

If you are a newbie rider - just focus on getting good clean shifts going. It will take a while but eventually you will get to a level to try this.

MD

[drewl]

I would like my clutch to last as long as possible, and something like this makes my teeth hurt just thinking about it. Thank you all for confirming my fears.

[gsdfriendly]

funny this thread should show up today... I was thinking the same thing.. My new 07 transmittion seems a bit clunky. for example say im at a dead stop at a light, and the engine is just idleing.. No gas applied. IF I pull in the clutch and push down to go into first to start off it kind of clunks in.. Its actually quite annoying.. I would think Honda would make a more seamless transmittion. Im wondering if I have a lemon or what. also when I upshift I momentarily let of the gas pull in the clutch shift gear. let out the clutch and apply gas. it seems it again doesnt shift as smooth as I would hope. I asssume Im shifting correctly. you would have to let of the gas momentarily or else the bike would rev up with clutch pulled in.. correct me if I'm wrong please... I heard someone describe their transmition as smooth as butter.... Mine definetly isnt like that at all. Please be honest guys.. Everyone talks like this is the best machine ever engineered and theres absolutely nothing to dislike about this.. I'm just wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. I owned a 04 suzuki sv1000 and it shifted much nicer than my honda... Please dont flame... If this doesnt improve I'll probably take it into the shop as much as I dred that... Thanks in advance.. Also this bike has 2200 miles on it now and I broke it in as per Motomans suggestion. I changed the oil 4 times already and im running regular dinosour oil...

[Scubalong]

Originally Posted by gsdfriendly

funny this thread should show up today... I was thinking the same thing.. My new 07 transmittion seems a bit clunky. for example say im at a dead stop at a light, and the engine is just idleing.. No gas applied. IF I pull in the clutch and push down to go into first to start off it kind of clunks in.. Its actually quite annoying.. I would think Honda would make a more seamless transmittion. Im wondering if I have a lemon or what. also when I upshift I momentarily let of the gas pull in the clutch shift gear. let out the clutch and apply gas. it seems it again doesnt shift as smooth as I would hope. I asssume Im shifting correctly. you would have to let of the gas momentarily or else the bike would rev up with clutch pulled in.. correct me if I'm wrong please... I heard someone describe their transmition as smooth as butter.... Mine definetly isnt like that at all. Please be honest guys.. Everyone talks like this is the best machine ever engineered and theres absolutely nothing to dislike about this.. I'm just wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. I owned a 04 suzuki sv1000 and it shifted much nicer than my honda... Please dont flame... If this doesnt improve I'll probably take it into the shop as much as I dred that... Thanks in advance.. Also this bike has 2200 miles on it now and I broke it in as per Motomans suggestion. I changed the oil 4 times already and im running regular dinosour oil...

My 05 does the same, I get to the point changing the fluid more offen, I took to the dealer many time during the service and they claim that is normal.

[gsdfriendly]

Thanks for the quick reply and the honesty... I have a feeling this is normal but why would it be engineered like that? It drives me insane. And I feel ya about the dealer. I've had similar experiences and it tends to get on the nerves.. Don't know if they are just tryin to cover up something or they are telllin the truth.. They don't call em stealerships for nothing. I do like this machine and it is becoming very natural to ride this thing. I just wish the tranny shifted a bit better. maybe with more miles and changing to synthetic oil will help.... Have a great weekend!!!

[derstuka]

GSDfriendly,

Honda has been notorious for years of building clunky transmissions. They still are durable, but clunky for the most part.

You could try installing a aftermarket shift kit, with a new drum and detent arm to make it shift better.

I am unhappy with it as well. They should do better. Make sure that your chain is not too tight either...it could be making things worse!

[gsdfriendly]

I dont think i'll go to that extent, although I do appreciate the heads up. So you experience this too? you seem to be a in the know and you add alot to this forum... I respect your opinion on this... Damn honda for their clunky xmissions!!!!

[Lgn001]

That's weird. My '07 clicks right into gear, no clunking, and it is one of the best shifting bikes I have ever rode. That's one of the things I really like about it. I have noticed, no matter what the bike, that fresh engine oil always seems to make it smoother. I'm wondering whether a few bikes out there have an air bubble or two in the hydraulics and are not fully disengaging the clutch.

Unfortunately, just because the Honda shop set up a brand new bike doesn't mean they got it right. I remember reading in this forum that it is common to have to loosen the banjo fitting right by the master cylinder to get all of the air out.

[arch4ngel]

Originally Posted by Lgn001

That's weird. My '07 clicks right into gear, no clunking, and it is one of the best shifting bikes I have ever rode. That's one of the things I really like about it. I have noticed, no matter what the bike, that fresh engine oil always seems to make it smoother. I'm wondering whether a few bikes out there have an air bubble or two in the hydraulics and are not fully disengaging the clutch.

Unfortunately, just because the Honda shop set up a brand new bike doesn't mean they got it right. I remember reading in this forum that it is common to have to loosen the banjo fitting right by the master cylinder to get all of the air out.

Good observation, I just bled my brakes and clutch and my shifting is much smoother. Never count on the dealer to set up bikes correctly! I used to work as a setup tech, I should know

Also, I noticed a huge improvement when I adjusted the shifter down a couple notches, and new oil always makes a noticeable difference.

[junktionfet]

I always use the clutch when shifting up or down. It's true that Honda trannys are clunky. My '06 VFR recently got caught between 3rd and 4th because I released the clutch before 4th was fully locked I suppose. I was accelerating leisurely.

I noticed that power wasn't getting to the wheel and I heard this clunking noise. I pulled in the clutch and tapped the shifter up one--and it made a brief grinding noise before making the characteristic locked-in-gear noise. I released the clutch and all was fine... I was cringing though because I know that those poor gears weren't synchronized with each other, but at least there was no load on the primary shaft. Hopefully the wear on the teeth was minimal.

[Rogue]

Not the slightest problem changing up without the clutch, you will not damage anything.
Shifting down however, is a different matter.