voltmeter install

Can anyone lead me to some instructions on how to install a voltmeter
on the bike? I just bought a stinger voltmeter and I want to have it
turn on and off with the bike. I have 3 wires, red, green, and blue.
There must be some wires that I can tap into near the front of the
bike. I'm guessing you don't have to lead a wire all the way back to
the battery terminals.

Thanks,
Lee

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Hi Lee.. I used the headlight wires - actually I piggybacked the wires
that I had drawn for the Zumo, which get its supply from the
headlights.. My headlights are wired (are yours too? This seems to
depend on country) so they are always on with the ignition.. -turgut

Lee R wrote:
> Can anyone lead me to some instructions on how to install a voltmeter
> on the bike? I just bought a stinger voltmeter and I want to have it
> turn on and off with the bike. I have 3 wires, red, green, and blue.
> There must be some wires that I can tap into near the front of the
> bike. I'm guessing you don't have to lead a wire all the way back to
> the battery terminals.
>
> Thanks,
> Lee
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>

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Lee R wrote:

>Can anyone lead me to some instructions on how to install a voltmeter
>on the bike? I just bought a stinger voltmeter and I want to have it
>turn on and off with the bike. I have 3 wires, red, green, and blue.
>There must be some wires that I can tap into near the front of the
>bike. I'm guessing you don't have to lead a wire all the way back to
>the battery terminals.
>
>Thanks,
>Lee
>
>
Lee,

No, you don't have to run a wire back to the battery. The voltmeter draws a very tiny amount of current so you can power your voltmeter off of any handy switched 12V power source, like the headlight circuit that Turgut suggested.

However, you should be aware that sampling a high current circuit (like the headlights) means that you will have a bit more error in the voltmeter's reading. This is because there will be a larger voltage drop in the wiring, switches and relays of that circuit due to the higher current.

That is not that big of a deal. Only the absolute accuracy would be effected. The relative voltage indication (with small error) would still be useful for knowing the state of charge / charging of the battery.

Ideally, for the best absolute accuracy, you want your voltmeter wire hooked up directly to the battery regardless of how long that makes it. Remember, there isn't much current drawn by the meter, so there won't be much voltage drop on the dedicated meter wire. But of course that would mean the meter would be on all the time and drain the battery.

Next best thing is to install a relay as close to the battery as possible, and have the relay activated by any handy switched 12V source. The voltmeter wire is fed then from the battery through the relay's normally open contacts.

However, if you have no other requirements for a switched power source, the relay scheme would probably be overkill for just a voltmeter.


--

-Fred W

'98 Honda VFR800Fi
'05 Yammi FJR1300
'00 Aprilia Pegaso

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Fred Wills wrote:
> Lee R wrote:
>
>> Can anyone lead me to some instructions on how to install a voltmeter
>> on the bike? I just bought a stinger voltmeter and I want to have it
>> turn on and off with the bike. I have 3 wires, red, green, and blue.
>> There must be some wires that I can tap into near the front of the
>> bike. I'm guessing you don't have to lead a wire all the way back to
>> the battery terminals.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lee
>>
>>
> Lee,
>
> No, you don't have to run a wire back to the battery. The voltmeter draws a very tiny amount of current so you can power your voltmeter off of any handy switched 12V power source, like the headlight circuit that Turgut suggested.
>
> However, you should be aware that sampling a high current circuit (like the headlights) means that you will have a bit more error in the voltmeter's reading. This is because there will be a larger voltage drop in the wiring, switches and relays of that circuit due to the higher current.
>
> That is not that big of a deal. Only the absolute accuracy would be effected. The relative voltage indication (with small error) would still be useful for knowing the state of charge / charging of the battery.
>
> Ideally, for the best absolute accuracy, you want your voltmeter wire hooked up directly to the battery regardless of how long that makes it. Remember, there isn't much current drawn by the meter, so there won't be much voltage drop on the dedicated meter wire. But of course that would mean the meter would be on all the time and drain the battery.
>
> Next best thing is to install a relay as close to the battery as possible, and have the relay activated by any handy switched 12V source. The voltmeter wire is fed then from the battery through the relay's normally open contacts.
>
> However, if you have no other requirements for a switched power source, the relay scheme would probably be overkill for just a voltmeter.
>
>

All good information, but something to keep in mind is that due to the
small current draw of the voltmeter, if a relay is added solely for the
voltmeter, the voltmeter's current draw will not likely "wet" the relay's
contacts and the relay may fail to switch ON consistently over time.

--tom
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Tom Uban wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>All good information, but something to keep in mind is that due to the
>small current draw of the voltmeter, if a relay is added solely for the
>voltmeter, the voltmeter's current draw will not likely "wet" the relay's
>contacts and the relay may fail to switch ON consistently over time.
>
>--tom
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
That one requires some explanation.

--

-Fred W

'98 Honda VFR800Fi
'05 Yammi FJR1300
'00 Aprilia Pegaso

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Fred Wills wrote:
> Tom Uban wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> All good information, but something to keep in mind is that due to the
>> small current draw of the voltmeter, if a relay is added solely for the
>> voltmeter, the voltmeter's current draw will not likely "wet" the relay's
>> contacts and the relay may fail to switch ON consistently over time.
>>
>> --tom
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
> That one requires some explanation.

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting_current


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This is not that critical. Take it from any light source circuit that is
one when the bike is running. The .1 volt difference will not make the
difference you are watching for. If you are that anal about it, measure the
voltage at the battery, then measure it at the source you want to use,
remember the difference and account for it manually. This reminds me of the
people that cut their hair to reduce weight.

doug


-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Tom Uban
Sent: August 19, 2008 10:30 AM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: voltmeter install

Fred Wills wrote:
> Tom Uban wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> All good information, but something to keep in mind is that due to the
>> small current draw of the voltmeter, if a relay is added solely for the
>> voltmeter, the voltmeter's current draw will not likely "wet" the relay's
>> contacts and the relay may fail to switch ON consistently over time.
>>
>> --tom
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
> That one requires some explanation.

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting_current


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lol - takes at least a pound and a half off my Austrailian Shepherd.

Doug Scott wrote: This is not that critical. Take it from any light source circuit that is
one when the bike is running. The .1 volt difference will not make the
difference you are watching for. If you are that anal about it, measure the
voltage at the battery, then measure it at the source you want to use,
remember the difference and account for it manually. This reminds me of the
people that cut their hair to reduce weight.

doug


-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Tom Uban
Sent: August 19, 2008 10:30 AM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: voltmeter install

Fred Wills wrote:
> Tom Uban wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> All good information, but something to keep in mind is that due to the
>> small current draw of the voltmeter, if a relay is added solely for the
>> voltmeter, the voltmeter's current draw will not likely "wet" the relay's
>> contacts and the relay may fail to switch ON consistently over time.
>>
>> --tom
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
> That one requires some explanation.

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting_current


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---- Doug Scott wrote:
> This is not that critical. Take it from any light source circuit that is
> one when the bike is running.

I thing Doug is right here. By installing a voltmeter, what you are really guarding against is a wholesale failure of the charging system (in particular the r/r). When it fails, you will see the voltage really spike (in non-regulating failure mode) or drastic drop in voltage (in non-charging failure mode). I've had both failure modes happen, and believe me, an extra .1-.2 V accuracy isn't needed to see the failure.

Several years ago when the list was first figuring out that a voltmeter was a nearly-required mod to the VFR (previous to Honda's redesign of the r/r), there was a lot of argument about the "right" way to wire the meter. The consensus was that wiring directly to the battery terminals gave the most accurate reading, and that connecting elsewhere could cause inaccurate readings due to the current draw of components and/or increased resistance through connectors. When I installed my Datel meter, I experimented with wiring it in several configurations -- directly to the battery, spliced in at major components (i.e headlight), and to my accessory fuse block. The difference in voltage was negligible. I ended up going to the switched fuse block. Never been an issue.

Marc

'94 VFR
'89 Hawk (hers)
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Ok,

So if i don't care about the negligible difference in the voltage
reading, then i'm going for convenience in mounting it. Plus i think
the voltmeter i bought allows you to tune it, so i can compare it to
the reading at the battery terminal and tune it accordingly. I have
3 wires, red, green, and blue. If i'm going to wire it to the amber
light, like the turn signal bulb that runs all the time, should i just
tap the red wire into that, ground the green wire and ignore the blue
wire? if i wire it to the battery, i got to splice it to a longer
wire, and then around the battery terminal. I just want to take the
easy way then, and not the pound of hair way.

thanks,

Lee

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Which bike?

FL-Vs have a fuse block under a panel near the RHS clip-on. You can
remove it (it un-clips) and get to the back-side, which is where the
wires are. I'd back-out the fuse holder contact (on the fused side)
of a convenient switched circuit for your switched 12v voltmeter feed.
You can probably open up the terminal crimp and slip a small wire in
and re-crimp (I'd probably solder it as well).

Ciao,

JZH
London, UK
www.vsource.org

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Lee R wrote:
> Can anyone lead me to some instructions on how to install a voltmeter
> on the bike? I just bought a stinger voltmeter and I want to have it
> turn on and off with the bike. I have 3 wires, red, green, and blue.
> There must be some wires that I can tap into near the front of the
> bike. I'm guessing you don't have to lead a wire all the way back to
> the battery terminals.
>
> Thanks,
> Lee
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:51:51 -0500
Lee R wrote:

> Ok,
>
>
> So if i don't care about the negligible difference in the voltage
> reading, then i'm going for convenience in mounting it. Plus i think
> the voltmeter i bought allows you to tune it, so i can compare it to
> the reading at the battery terminal and tune it accordingly. I have 3
> wires, red, green, and blue. If i'm going to wire it to the amber
> light, like the turn signal bulb that runs all the time, should i just
> tap the red wire into that, ground the green wire and ignore the blue
> wire? if i wire it to the battery, i got to splice it to a longer
> wire, and then around the battery terminal. I just want to take the
> easy way then, and not the pound of hair way.
> thanks,
>
> Lee
>
>
And the age old question for you science majors out there, what weighs
more, a pound of lead or a pound of hair? :-\

Mike in northern NJ
ex-B737 pilot
current LJ35/55 captain
"they let guys like you fly jets!?"


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A voltmeter normally only requires two wires, so I don't know why
yours has three--but there must be a reason! I'd check with the
manufacturer for the install instructions.

Ciao,

JZH
London, UK
www.vsource.org

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Lee R wrote:
> Ok,
>
> So if i don't care about the negligible difference in the voltage
> reading, then i'm going for convenience in mounting it. Plus i think
> the voltmeter i bought allows you to tune it, so i can compare it to
> the reading at the battery terminal and tune it accordingly. I have
> 3 wires, red, green, and blue. If i'm going to wire it to the amber
> light, like the turn signal bulb that runs all the time, should i just
> tap the red wire into that, ground the green wire and ignore the blue
> wire? if i wire it to the battery, i got to splice it to a longer
> wire, and then around the battery terminal. I just want to take the
> easy way then, and not the pound of hair way.
>
> thanks,
>
> Lee
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
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---- jzh3 wrote:
> A voltmeter normally only requires two wires, so I don't know why
> yours has three--but there must be a reason!

Yes, that is a strange configuration. I assume that voltage is the only function of the meter? If so, the one thing I could think of to explain the extra wire is if the voltmeter has a backlight, and the other wire is to supply (+) power independent of the circuit you're trying to measure.

MJB

'94 VFR
'89 Hawk (hers)
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Mine had three as well....one to positive battery, one to ground, one to
switched positve.
Voltage reads out with switch on and off.
Switched positive is for LEDs and backlighting on my unit.


-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
marc.brinker@xxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:25 PM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: voltmeter install

---- jzh3 wrote:
> A voltmeter normally only requires two wires, so I don't know why
> yours has three--but there must be a reason!

Yes, that is a strange configuration. I assume that voltage is the only
function of the meter? If so, the one thing I could think of to explain the
extra wire is if the voltmeter has a backlight, and the other wire is to
supply (+) power independent of the circuit you're trying to measure.

MJB

'94 VFR
'89 Hawk (hers)
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Are these "stinger" voltmeters waterproof? You definitely want them to
be waterproof.

--Fred W

Mac Christopher wrote:

>Mine had three as well....one to positive battery, one to ground, one to
>switched positve.
>Voltage reads out with switch on and off.
>Switched positive is for LEDs and backlighting on my unit.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>marc.brinker@xxxxxx
>Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:25 PM
>To: vfr@xxxxxx
>Subject: Re: voltmeter install
>
>---- jzh3 wrote:
>
>
>>A voltmeter normally only requires two wires, so I don't know why
>>yours has three--but there must be a reason!
>>
>>
>
>Yes, that is a strange configuration. I assume that voltage is the only
>function of the meter? If so, the one thing I could think of to explain the
>extra wire is if the voltmeter has a backlight, and the other wire is to
>supply (+) power independent of the circuit you're trying to measure.
>
>MJB
>
>'94 VFR
>'89 Hawk (hers)
>
>


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Not a turn signal Bulb.
It will effect the meter when using the flasher.
I wired mine to a handy spot and got strange readings every now and then.
Turned out I hooked into the fuel pump.
So when the pump fired up my volt meter dropped and then it would climb
again.
Thought the meter was faulty.
Spied
*****************************************
Steve "Spider" Enfield
-----------------------------------
Any resemblance between
your reality and mine are
purely coincidental.
------------------------------
Proud member of:
www.ozvfr.net
Pics of my
87 VFR 750,
can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/6yv5xb
-----------
Pic's of my now long gone
96 VFR can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/5q9xdy


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee R"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:51 AM
Subject: re:voltmeter install


>
> Ok,
>
> So if i don't care about the negligible difference in the voltage
> reading, then i'm going for convenience in mounting it. Plus i think
> the voltmeter i bought allows you to tune it, so i can compare it to
> the reading at the battery terminal and tune it accordingly. I have
> 3 wires, red, green, and blue. If i'm going to wire it to the amber
> light, like the turn signal bulb that runs all the time, should i just
> tap the red wire into that, ground the green wire and ignore the blue
> wire? if i wire it to the battery, i got to splice it to a longer
> wire, and then around the battery terminal. I just want to take the
> easy way then, and not the pound of hair way.
>
> thanks,
>
> Lee
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1621 - Release Date: 19/08/2008
> 6:53 PM
>
>
>


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I seriously doubt it's pressure-tested waterproof since it has function
buttons. I've ridden in hard rain and it's gotten wet with no condensation
in the display or loss of function.


-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Wills [mailto:fjwills@xxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:32 PM
To: Mac Christopher
Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: voltmeter install

Are these "stinger" voltmeters waterproof? You definitely want them to be
waterproof.

--Fred W

Mac Christopher wrote:

>Mine had three as well....one to positive battery, one to ground, one
>to switched positve.
>Voltage reads out with switch on and off.
>Switched positive is for LEDs and backlighting on my unit.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of marc.brinker@xxxxxx
>Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:25 PM
>To: vfr@xxxxxx
>Subject: Re: voltmeter install
>
>---- jzh3 wrote:
>
>
>>A voltmeter normally only requires two wires, so I don't know why
>>yours has three--but there must be a reason!
>>
>>
>
>Yes, that is a strange configuration. I assume that voltage is the only
>function of the meter? If so, the one thing I could think of to explain
>the extra wire is if the voltmeter has a backlight, and the other wire
>is to supply (+) power independent of the circuit you're trying to measure.
>
>MJB
>
>'94 VFR
>'89 Hawk (hers)
>
>


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The unit I used is a "Black Universal LED Battery Gauge" marketed by several sources.
Had 2 wires -*Red/power and Black/ground.* Use a test lamp and poke around to find a correct ignition on power source.* The '99 does not have many around the front half of the bike unless you pull apart*lots of plastic.*
*
Brad
CT.
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