CL 14 Helmet

A little education.

1) Plastic is not a composite. It is plastic. It is manufactured in one
pouring/injection operation. Composites are an alloy, if you will.

2) Plastic will impart more energy to your head.

Ask how many MotoGP riders wear plastic helmets, and then think about why
they don't...

No offence to those wearing plastic helmets ( I have one myself). But it is
inferior to fibreglass, at least in a helmet application.

Do you really think a $49 helmet is going to protect your head like a good
fibreglass helmet?

And just because two helmets pass a test, does not mean they are the same
quality. For instance, back when the CL series was a CL-10, I bought one
for snowmobiling. All CL-10 helmets were Snell rated, except the XXXL size.

Why do you think that was? Because the helmet failed!

Anyway, opinions will differ, especially when somebody already owns what
they're touting....









----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Barufaldi"
To: "Jason Mellen" ; "VFR mailing list"

Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: CL 14 Helmet


> This is just wrong on too many fronts...
>
> Do you know what thickness each skin is? Or what the composites are made
of (Polycarbonate vs. Fiberglass composites). Without this info, you can't
possible assert that the shell on the CL is inferior to the AC. How about
the different shape, and the inner shells? Or the different applications
based on type of accident.
>
> Besides which, it's almost certainly moot. The value of the shell is not
necessarily strength, but it's ability to disperse energy, and I can't
answer which material and application is better. No one can until they are
tested. And right now, the standards for testing in this country are DOT
and SNELL. Both helmets pass.
>
> The topper, of course, is that it's highly likely that both these
materials fail at an energy level WAY higher than the human brain would
survive.
>
> Dan B
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jason Mellen
> >Sent: Apr 3, 2006 6:09 PM
> >To: VFR mailing list
> >Subject: Fw: Fw: CL 14 Helmet
> >
> >Plastic is not as strong as fibreglass. Fibreglass is reinforced
plastic.
> >
> >I'm sure it's a fine helmet, but there's a reason plastic helmets are
cheap.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dan Barufaldi"
> >To: "Jason Mellen" ; "VFR mailing list"
> >
> >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:04 PM
> >Subject: Re: Fw: CL 14 Helmet
> >
> >
> >> And?
> >>
> >> It's Snell 2000 and DOT 218 rated. If your point is about weight, I
can
> >tell you that I also bought the AC-11 Zeek which has a fiberglass
composite
> >shell. They're almost indiscernible in terms of weight, with the AC-11
> >feeling actually a tad heavier on the bicep scale.
> >>
> >> Not sure what the complaint is with a plastic shell.
> >>
> >> Dan B
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Jason Mellen
> >> >Sent: Apr 3, 2006 5:57 PM
> >> >To: VFR mailing list
> >> >Subject: Fw: CL 14 Helmet
> >> >
> >> >Looks like a good price, but it is a plastic helmet.
> >> >
> >> >Jay
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Don't know if anyone here wears an XL or XXL helmet, but if you do,
> >this
> >> >is a GREAT deal on an excellent helmet.
> >> >>
> >> >> Dan B
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>
>>http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...partment=101&D
i
> >vision=1
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Vfr mailing list
> >> >> Vfr@xxxxxx
> >> >> For subscription and delivery options:
> >> >> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> >> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/300 - Release Date:
03/04/06
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Vfr mailing list
> >> >Vfr@xxxxxx
> >> >For subscription and delivery options:
> >> >https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
> >>
> >>
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> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/300 - Release Date: 03/04/06
>
>

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FYI, that helmet failed its random DOT test



Warren

--- John Alexander wrote:

> On 4/3/06, Jason Mellen
> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like a good price, but it is a plastic
> helmet.
> >
> > Jay
>
>
>
> In the recent MC Magazine helmet tests, the plastic
> helmet from Pep Boys
> scored the highest on impact test. Turns out that
> the softer plastic gives a
> little thus making it distribute the blow a bit
> better. They are really
> better than the fiberglass or carbon fiber helmets,
> just don't look as sexy
> and really don't take paint or graphics as well.
>
> A very good helmet.
>
> YMMV.
>
>
> John in Calif - head in composite AGV X-vent lid
> > _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr


Passion is the difference between living and existing
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My helmet history is as follows; assorted cheap fiberglass helmets, Nava
full face, HJC CL10, HJC FG2, HJC AC10, and most recently, Vemar VSR GP1

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx]On Behalf
Of Denny Fair
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:13 PM
To: Jason Mellen; VFR mailing list
Subject: RE: CL 14 Helmet


I think the CL series of helmets from HJC were one of if not the first
composite helmets to be both Snell and DOT rated. I've not had any issues
with any of the HJC's that I have owned and find the visor opening larger
and easier to see peripherally.

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx]On Behalf
Of Jason Mellen
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 5:58 PM
To: VFR mailing list
Subject: Fw: CL 14 Helmet


Looks like a good price, but it is a plastic helmet.

Jay






> Don't know if anyone here wears an XL or XXL helmet, but if you do, this
is a GREAT deal on an excellent helmet.
>
> Dan B
>
>
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...rtment=101&Div
ision=1
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/300 - Release Date: 03/04/06
>
>

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--- Jason Mellen wrote:

> quality. For instance, back when the CL series was
> a CL-10, I bought one
> for snowmobiling. All CL-10 helmets were Snell
> rated, except the XXXL size.
>
> Why do you think that was? Because the helmet
> failed!

Do you know that it failed? Maybe they just didn't
have a test rig that big or the mfr. didn't submit one
for testing?

Not trying to start something, just ruling out the
stupid stuff.

Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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Okay - This will be my last post on the subject....

"A little MORE education" - FROM HJC - on their description of the shell of
the CL-14: HJC's CL Series ... Features like SNELL approved advanced
polycarbonate composite shell construction...

So it appears "plastic" is how Jason defines the CL-14, not how HJC does.
Whatever it is they use, it appears that it is, in fact, a composite.

You statement that plastic will impart more impact is not based on any cited
fact, and is so broad as to be uncredible.

I don't ride the way a MotoGP rider rides, that's why I don't wear the same
kind of leathers, the same kind of boots, or gloves or helmets or eyewear or
rain gear. Different animal. But you can bet that not a small part of
that decision is based on what the helmet company wants to market - and
that's usually going to be their "flagship" product.

Again, no citation as to the inferiority of the "plastic" helmet - just your
assertion.

And my favorite statement: "Do you really think a $49 helmet is going to
protect your head like a good fibreglass helmet?"

Well, would it be better protection if I paid full retail (mine would have
been $169.99)? The Composite Shell that you are so enamored with retails
for $20 more....so where, exactly, is the price cutoff for helmet
protection? Since the Composite can be had for $80 (I bought both, by the
way), does that provide less protection than if I had paid retail for the
"plastic"?

I agree that two helmets that pass the same test are not necessarily the
same quality. And many of those qualities have nothing to do with safety,
and much more to do with comfort features, bells/whistles, etc. (My CL
doesn't have "Advanced Channeling System", or "Aquatrans moisture wicking"
or the like) I guess the question I have is this: Should I put more faith
in Snell when it comes to rating my head gear, or in Jason? I gotta go with
the Snell engineers.

I agree about opinions. That's why I try to base my safety decisions mostly
on fact. And there are no facts present that indicate my CL-14 will protect
me less than my AC-11.

Dan B

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Jason Mellen
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:34 PM
To: VFR mailing list
Subject: CL 14 Helmet

A little education.

1) Plastic is not a composite. It is plastic. It is manufactured in one
pouring/injection operation. Composites are an alloy, if you will.

2) Plastic will impart more energy to your head.

Ask how many MotoGP riders wear plastic helmets, and then think about why
they don't...

No offence to those wearing plastic helmets ( I have one myself). But it is
inferior to fibreglass, at least in a helmet application.

Do you really think a $49 helmet is going to protect your head like a good
fibreglass helmet?

And just because two helmets pass a test, does not mean they are the same
quality. For instance, back when the CL series was a CL-10, I bought one
for snowmobiling. All CL-10 helmets were Snell rated, except the XXXL size.

Why do you think that was? Because the helmet failed!

Anyway, opinions will differ, especially when somebody already owns what
they're touting....


SNIP

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What helmet does that address?

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Warren Oshita
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 6:43 PM
To: John Alexander
Cc: VFR mailing list
Subject: Re: Fw: CL 14 Helmet

FYI, that helmet failed its random DOT test



Warren

--- John Alexander wrote:

> On 4/3/06, Jason Mellen
> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like a good price, but it is a plastic
> helmet.
> >
> > Jay
>
>
>
> In the recent MC Magazine helmet tests, the plastic
> helmet from Pep Boys
> scored the highest on impact test. Turns out that
> the softer plastic gives a
> little thus making it distribute the blow a bit
> better. They are really
> better than the fiberglass or carbon fiber helmets,
> just don't look as sexy
> and really don't take paint or graphics as well.
>
> A very good helmet.
>
> YMMV.
>
>
> John in Calif - head in composite AGV X-vent lid
> > _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr


Passion is the difference between living and existing
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--- Dan Barufaldi wrote:

> What helmet does that address?

2005 Z1R. Motorcyclist magazine tested it and it
transfered the least amount of force to the interior
in four kinds of impacts. I'd guess that a lot of
people ran out and bought one (I know one person who
did). Then, it failed DOT's random testing (I believe
they pull subjects off the shelf).

Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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--- Warren Oshita wrote:

>
>
> --- Dan Barufaldi wrote:
>
> > What helmet does that address?
>
> 2005 Z1R. Motorcyclist magazine tested it and it
> transfered the least amount of force to the interior
> in four kinds of impacts. I'd guess that a lot of
> people ran out and bought one (I know one person who
> did). Then, it failed DOT's random testing (I
> believe
> they pull subjects off the shelf).

To further clarify, I'm referring to the "Z1R ZRP-1"
which I believe is distributed by Parts Unlimited. In
the DOT document, the manufacturer is listed as HJC.

John may indeed be referring to a different lid -- a
Pep Boys helmet called, Raider (MSRP $69.95), which
also scored well in the article's tests.

Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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ack, *I* had the wrong helmet. Reading my own document
a little more carefully, it was the Z1R "Metro" that
failed. I checked the Z1R website and found that it's
not the full-face helmet tested by Motorcyclist
magazine. My bad.

Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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