Clutch wear; Sad but true.

Alright, so this isn't going to make me look very good, but its a story that
needs to be told. About 3 and a half years ago I put new Barnett clutch
plates in my 94 VFR at roughly 35,000 miles because it was slipping. After
the install the clutch didn't act normal. All symptoms pointed to air in the
lines, or a leaky master or slave that weren't disengaing the clutch plates
well enough. I messed with it for a while and got some air out and it didn't
improve. Since that time my clutch has engaged right at the bar and
continued out to the end of the lever throw. A slight pull on the lever
caused it to slip but you could never totally disengage the clutch. There
was always some drag. This made finding neutral a b*tch while the engine was
running and shifts were a bit odd altogether. Well being that I'm me and
that I was in college at the time and just wanted to ride, not spend my beer
money (j/k) (okay so not really but kinda kidding) (okay so its probably the
truth), I didn't take the side cover off to look and see if anything was
wrong. I mean come on, what could I have possibly screwed up right?

Well yesterday I finally got around to putting in a new judder, judder seat,
nine friction plates and the eight steels. I took everything out and stacked
them in order of removal. First thing I noticed was that the Barnetts really
were worn quite a bit ( you would wear too after three years of riding and
never being totally disengaged when the clutch was pulled), metals didn't
appear to be worn of burned, granted I didn't check the metals with a feeler
guage. 0.002" over eight plates is 0.016" out over eight plates and would
be enough to compound the problem. As I'm taking them out I got the the last
friction plate and was puzzlled that it looked just like the last six or so
that I took out. And then it hit me. The first friction I removed was the
odd ball with the larger I.D. that is supposed to be the inboard friction
plate and has a larger I.D. to clear the judder spring and seat.

Yup Dummy me installed the clutch exactly backwards. So one of the friction
plates was in constant contact with the judder spring, causing the plates to
not seat all the way in where they needed to be. This was the problem with
the clutch engagement. Consider the thickness of judder spring and seat and
remove that amount from the amount of free play that is typically present
when disengaging the clutch plates.

Okay so thinking back i was having a beer or two while changing the clutch.
But still no excuse.

Lesson learned is that not only can you ride the bike with the clutch
installed backwards but it will work well for 3 years time and 12,000 mile
or so before it started to exhibit signs of slipping. So alright let me have
it. I accept the bonehead award.

Jeremy
94 VFR750F (correct clutch installed) 48,000+ miles and counting

Oh and for what its worth, I went with all OEM Honda parts this time around.


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Jeremy Boron wrote:

>
>Okay so thinking back i was having a beer or two while changing the clutch.
>But still no excuse.
>
>
>
Ha!

This is me, I once put a new clutch on XR650L and it still was acting
funny. And you would think a dirt-bike clutch would be EASY? -no way
-that _aint_ no dirt bike!

Anyhow, still acting funny -I had a failing cable....d'oh!

The other day I put a new right footpeg bracket on because the one that
came on it was bent in the crash -guess what? the one I bought on ebay
was ALSO bent -d'oh! MappGas torch time. If I busted it I still had a
spare to try again. Worked great too until I went to put it back on and
I couldn't figure out why that front bolt was too short! I spent over 2
hours trying to figure it out and finally gave up and went to bed at
2AM. The next morning I figured it out using the manual (which still
wasn't very clear on the subject) that the front bolt is just a pin and
the footpeg brack rests OVER it. The bolt doesn't go THROUGH it...

D'OH!!!!!!!!!

I've done my share of bone-head things but the best is when I was
putting a new countershaft seal and case part after a chain went into
it. I was counting my lucky stars that the part was replaceable on the
bike (easy) and that I had it fixed cheap. When my dad comes over and
says, "what's this pin for?" and pulls the shift dog retaining pin right
out the side of the case and I hear all the shift dogs go "ting, ting,
twink, twang" as they fall off into the cases.....

D'OH!!!!! DAD!!!!!!!!!!

-Jim
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LOL!..... got to love the best of intentions. That was the worst pin he
could have pulled. I'm kicking myself double because my younger brother is
an outstanding bike mechanic graduating from MMI with top honors and then
some, my older brother has a Mechanical Engineering Technology degree and is
hella-smart along with being a great mechanic, my Dad teaches automotive
technology, and we all grew up working on stuff. So I don't have to worry
about them doing bad things to it, but somehow I end up being a Forester. Go
figure. Nice to know I'm not the only one that goofs things up.

Jeremy


>From: firefly
>Reply-To: serenityvalley@xxxxxx
>To: Jeremy Boron
>CC: vfr@xxxxxx
>Subject: Re: Clutch wear; Sad but true.
>Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:49:54 -0500
>
>Jeremy Boron wrote:
>
>>
>>Okay so thinking back i was having a beer or two while changing the
>>clutch. But still no excuse.
>>
>>
>>
>Ha!
>
>This is me, I once put a new clutch on XR650L and it still was acting
>funny. And you would think a dirt-bike clutch would be EASY? -no way -that
>_aint_ no dirt bike!
>
>Anyhow, still acting funny -I had a failing cable....d'oh!
>
>The other day I put a new right footpeg bracket on because the one that
>came on it was bent in the crash -guess what? the one I bought on ebay was
>ALSO bent -d'oh! MappGas torch time. If I busted it I still had a spare
>to try again. Worked great too until I went to put it back on and I
>couldn't figure out why that front bolt was too short! I spent over 2
>hours trying to figure it out and finally gave up and went to bed at 2AM.
>The next morning I figured it out using the manual (which still wasn't very
>clear on the subject) that the front bolt is just a pin and the footpeg
>brack rests OVER it. The bolt doesn't go THROUGH it...
>
>D'OH!!!!!!!!!
>
>I've done my share of bone-head things but the best is when I was putting a
>new countershaft seal and case part after a chain went into it. I was
>counting my lucky stars that the part was replaceable on the bike (easy)
>and that I had it fixed cheap. When my dad comes over and says, "what's
>this pin for?" and pulls the shift dog retaining pin right out the side of
>the case and I hear all the shift dogs go "ting, ting, twink, twang" as
>they fall off into the cases.....
>
>D'OH!!!!! DAD!!!!!!!!!!
>
>-Jim


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Jeremy Boron wrote:

> LOL!..... got to love the best of intentions. That was the worst pin
> he could have pulled. I'm kicking myself double because my younger
> brother is an outstanding bike mechanic graduating from MMI with top
> honors and then some, my older brother has a Mechanical Engineering
> Technology degree and is hella-smart along with being a great
> mechanic, my Dad teaches automotive technology, and we all grew up
> working on stuff. So I don't have to worry about them doing bad things
> to it, but somehow I end up being a Forester. Go figure. Nice to know
> I'm not the only one that goofs things up.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
Forgot to add that this was on an '81 Kawi GPz550. If anyone is
familiar with the KZ engine of the time and worked on the transmission
you know which pin I'm talking about.

Gee, thanks dad...

He taught me everything he knows about working on bikes. The rest of
the week I learned stuff on my own...

-Jim

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On 1 Jun, 2006, at 22:04, Jeremy Boron wrote:

> LOL!..... got to love the best of intentions. That was the worst
> pin he
> could have pulled. I'm kicking myself double because my younger
> brother is
> an outstanding bike mechanic graduating from MMI with top honors
> and then
> some, my older brother has a Mechanical Engineering Technology
> degree and is
> hella-smart along with being a great mechanic, my Dad teaches
> automotive
> technology, and we all grew up working on stuff. So I don't have to
> worry
> about them doing bad things to it, but somehow I end up being a
> Forester. Go
> figure. Nice to know I'm not the only one that goofs things up.

Where'd you do your forestry degree, and who do you forest for now?
My dad was a forestry grad from Purdue; he spent some time working
for the forest service in the late '60s.

later,
Johnj
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On 6/1/06, Jeremy Boron wrote:
> Alright, so this isn't going to make me look very good, but its a story that
> needs to be told. About 3 and a half years ago I put new Barnett clutch
> plates in my 94 VFR at roughly 35,000 miles because it was slipping. After
> the install the clutch didn't act normal. All symptoms pointed to air in the

Out of curiosity, did you measure the old plates when you took them out?

In my experience, clutch springs lose their strength after something
like the 20k or 10 year mark, but friction disks keep right on going
unless abused badly. It happened on my old CX650C (19k, 11 years
old), and it happened on my Transalp (28k, 14 years old). In both
cases the friction discs were well within spec, and in the Transalp
they were *exactly* the same thickness as the brand new friction disks
I'd bought!

--
Jeff
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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 00:20:50 -0700
From: "Jeff Fitzsimons"
Subject: Re: Clutch wear; Sad but true.
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 6/1/06, Jeremy Boron wrote:
>Alright, so this isn't going to make me look very good, but its a story
>that
>needs to be told. About 3 and a half years ago I put new Barnett clutch
>plates in my 94 VFR at roughly 35,000 miles because it was slipping. After
>the install the clutch didn't act normal. All symptoms pointed to air in
>the

Out of curiosity, did you measure the old plates when you took them out?

In my experience, clutch springs lose their strength after something
like the 20k or 10 year mark, but friction disks keep right on going
unless abused badly. It happened on my old CX650C (19k, 11 years
old), and it happened on my Transalp (28k, 14 years old). In both
cases the friction discs were well within spec, and in the Transalp
they were *exactly* the same thickness as the brand new friction disks
I'd bought!

--
Jeff


Nope, I didn't measure them. I was running out of daylight and I don't think
I have a caliper around to measure them with. The original old plates that I
replaced the first time were probably okay but I already had new plates
there so I put them in (wrong way of course), the barnett discs that I just
removed were visibly worm and thin due to the 3 years of improper
installation. I've also made sure to replace springs each time.

Jeremy


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