Back in the Saddle - some questions

Good morning Dan,

Pennzoil - I suggest you Google it; there's a host of authoritative, reliable OEM stuff out there - and my formal qualifications as an automotive teacher for 24 years.

There're far, far better coolants available than the stuff Honda market. One just needs to add a few $.

Regards,

Tom H.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Barufaldi [mailto:dbarufaldi@xxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, 15 June 2006 7:11 AM
To: Tom Heron; VFR
Cc: frugalyankee-cycles@xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Back in the Saddle - some questions


Can you please quote a source on this?

Dan B




-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Heron
Sent: Jun 14, 2006 5:00 PM
To: VFR
Cc: frugalyankee-cycles@xxxxxx
Subject: RE: Back in the Saddle - some questions



Here we go again guys - the uninformed coolant debate - I published the following info few years ago and here it is again.





As you can see, a coolant concentration higher than 75% actually raises boiling point and lowers freezing temp.





In short, the 800 likes a high coolant concentration (up to 75%) as it does have the potential to run hotter than some, despite being the best of the breed ;-)





One needs to be a little careful about high concentrations in very cold climates. Still, riding on ice-covered roads has its drawbacks...








Ethylene Glycol Coolant Information









Ethylene Glycol Concentration %

Boiling Point °C

Freezing Point °C


33

124

-19


40

126

-26


50

130

-34


100

190

-18










Additional Information for Interested VFR Listers




Coolant allows for a greater rate of heat transmission from the engine components by increasing the coolant's surface wetting characteristics. Try dropping a droplet of water onto an aluminium drink can. The water's surface tension will cause the droplet to "bead". Water acts this way in a cooling system, especially if it's in contact with alloy components. At a molecular level it doesn't "wet" the engine components and limits the rate at which engine heat finds its way into the cooling medium.



Also, the metal temperature in cylinder heads, especially around exhaust valves, can get way higher than 100 degrees C and insulative vapour pockets can form at locations where the cooling system needs to do its most important work. Gaseous vapours are not good heat conductors. If you boil some water in a pan on the stove and watch closely, you'll see tiny bubbles form on the bottom of the pan as the water begins to boil. Same thing happens in an engine. Pressurising the cooling system helps by raising the boiling point of the coolant, and addition of ethylene glycol further raises the boiling point, minimising the potential for vapour pockets to form.



>From the table it can be observed that a 100% ethylene glycol coolant concentration provides for excellent resistance to "boiling" but reduces anti-freeze protection. A high ethylene glycol coolant concentration could be considered appropriate for temperate (warm) to hot climates.



For cold climates coolant manufacturers (Pennzoil) recommend no higher than a 75% ethylene glycol coolant concentration.



The downside? Coolant is infinitely more expensive than water, so OEM's only use the minimum concentration required for a particular application (but if you're a flush, Devil-may-care VFR owner expense is no barrier and you can use the concentration of your choice.) Also, the lower coolant surface tension can cause head gasket and hose leaks and OEM's have had to go to better head gasket material and high quality (usually stainless) hose clamps that have a higher clamping load capability.



Minimum ethylene glycol coolant concentration should be at least 33%. A low concentration can actually exacerbate corrosion. Coolant should be changed every two years, as the other additives are depleted over time. Don't add just water when the surge tank needs topping up as this will dilute the coolant. Add a pre-mixed amount of coolant.



It's not a good idea to mix different brands of coolant. Some are incompatible with each other.


Regards,

Tom Heron
VFR800FIw

Melbourne, Oz



-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of frugalyankee-cycles@xxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 14 June 2006 11:40 PM
To: vfr800 vfr800
Subject: RE: Back in the Saddle - some questions


Wouldn't recommend a 60/40 mix in the VFR800. It runs hot enough as is and this mix will cause it to run even hotter. Use out-of-the-bottle Honda 50/50 premix.

Brad
CT.



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