Laying a bike down

Have we been through all the subjects already, and we're back on this one again? I thought for sure we'd see another oil thread before the "Every accident is avoidable vs You can't reasonably ensure you'll avoid every accident" thread.

Pity. I change my oil far more often than I change my position on accidents.

Dan B

-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Burgess
>Sent: Jun 29, 2006 10:12 AM
>To: "VFRESQ@xxxxxx"
>Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
>Subject: Re: Laying a bike down
>
>In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
>out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
>changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
>situation.
>
>There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.
>
>-Chris
>
>On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
>> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
>> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability.
>>
>> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
>> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
>> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me. I
>> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
>> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
>> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
>> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left side
>> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other side.
>>
>>
>> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
>> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on the
>> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
>> Court in Manhatten.
>>
>> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had taken
>> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
>> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
>> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
>> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
>> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
>> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
>> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I was
>> coming to his court.
>>
>> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>>
>> Regards to all,
>>
>> Chris Burdett
>> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
>> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
>> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
>> stick at . . . "
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
>> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
>> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability.
>>
>> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
>> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
>> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me. I
>> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
>> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
>> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
>> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left side
>> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other side.
>>
>>
>> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
>> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on the
>> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
>> Court in Manhatten.
>>
>> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had taken
>> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
>> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
>> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
>> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
>> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
>> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
>> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I was
>> coming to his court.
>>
>> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>>
>> Regards to all,
>>
>> Chris Burdett
>> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
>> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
>> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
>> stick at . . . "
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vfr mailing list
>> Vfr@xxxxxx
>> For subscription and delivery options:
>> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
>Contact me for more information
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To me, "laying a bike" down means getting away from it as soon as possible--jumping away instead of jumping up. That the bike goes down is probably a product of pushing the bike down or over as one dislocates. I could care less about the bike at that point, actually...I do imagine that jumping off a bike is harder than it sounds, and jumping off a bike on a horizontal trajectory is probably exceptionally difficult to manage. And the likelyhood that I could separate myself from my bike faster than I can swerve seems minimal. But this would all be on instinct, anyway, and anything a rider can do to avoid his or her body receiving a full frontal impact sounds sensible to me--if the standard "brake or swerve to avoid" looks impossible/inadequate/suicidal.

Paul Nagy
'99 VFR800 fi
Clovis, NM

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I would think that if you have the time to make the decision to lay a bike
down then You have the time to swerve away from a crash! The only time that
you shouldn't be able to avoid a crash is when someone or something suddenly
violates your right of way from a blind entrance to the roadway. If you
can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down you were
riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability. Once
you've separated the bike tires from the pavement you have lost any means of
controlling the bike and have crashed any way. Not sensible.

Denny
-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Nagy, Paul
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:01 PM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Laying a bike down


To me, "laying a bike" down means getting away from it as soon as
possible--jumping away instead of jumping up. That the bike goes down is
probably a product of pushing the bike down or over as one dislocates. I
could care less about the bike at that point, actually...I do imagine that
jumping off a bike is harder than it sounds, and jumping off a bike on a
horizontal trajectory is probably exceptionally difficult to manage. And
the likelyhood that I could separate myself from my bike faster than I can
swerve seems minimal. But this would all be on instinct, anyway, and
anything a rider can do to avoid his or her body receiving a full frontal
impact sounds sensible to me--if the standard "brake or swerve to avoid"
looks impossible/inadequate/suicidal.

Paul Nagy
'99 VFR800 fi
Clovis, NM

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Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
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--- "Nagy, Paul" wrote:

> To me, "laying a bike" down means getting away from
> it as soon as possible--jumping away instead of
> jumping up. [snip] But this
> would all be on instinct, anyway, and anything a
> rider can do to avoid his or her body receiving a
> full frontal impact sounds sensible to me--if the
> standard "brake or swerve to avoid" looks
> impossible/inadequate/suicidal.

I think no amount of book-learnin' and internet
mailing list discussion is going to overcome instinct
if you ever see a vehicle heading directly at you.
You're going to do what you're going to do if you have
any time to react at all. So, while this is all purely
academic, it seems to me that if you have time to jump
off a bike, you still have time to apply a
counter-steering input to the handlebars to try to get
the hell outta the way.

I really hope no one ever has to find out which one of
us is right, though. My heart goes out to the families
of the victims. It certainly sounds like someone fell
asleep at the wheel.

Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jdfair@xxxxxx writes:

If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability.


I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn when a
14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me. I suppose
that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped. Anyway,
I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit the
trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I instinctively took
the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left side and literally slid
under the trailer, coming all the way out the other side.

In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on the
luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal Court in
Manhatten.

After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had taken
several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I had
more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home, cleaned up
the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was that fun),
put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes late. The
judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was dating at the
time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to go to my doctor,
and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his
court.

The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .

Regards to all,

Chris Burdett


With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
stick at . . . "


_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.

There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.

-Chris

On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me. I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me. I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information
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In a message dated 6/29/2006 2:13:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chris@xxxxxx writes:

In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.




Well, not to turn this into a debate, but as I remember it (this was 34 years
ago) there was metered parking on both the curbs to my right and left,
except for a no-parking no parking within maybe thirty feet or so to either side
of the warehouse entrance. There were cars parked on both sides, and when the
truck pulled out (he was going to have to make one hell of a turn to go left
down the street, but the no-parking zone around the warehouse made this
possible), the trailer was completely blocking the left and parked cars were
blocking the right. And as it happens, I had lived a half a block up the street
for over a year and rode down it almost every day, had seen vewry little
traffic of any kind at the warehouse and had never seen a big truck going in or
out.

Anyway, enough of this. I hope it never happens to anyone on the list (or
anyone else) - it was no fun.


Chris Burdett


With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A , and
most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6, but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR
with more shit on it than you can shake a stick at . . . "


_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

I think sometimes the correct preventitive measure is to have walked that
day. To stand here 34 years later and have the nerve to say "you could have
done something to avoid it" just proves my previous point. Some people just
live to judge.
BTW, if you all want to be completely correct, calling it an accident means
it was unavoidable and no ones fault, it is otherwise known as a collision.


doug

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Chris Burgess
Sent: June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down

In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull out
from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down, changed
your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire situation.

There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.

-Chris

On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike
> down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in
> Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in
> front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I
could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to
> hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
> side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the
other side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new
> briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal
> trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
> taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds,
and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy
> was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10
> minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose
> clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the
> case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to
> ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A
> , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part
> to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than
> you can shake a stick at . . . "
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike
> down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in
> Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in
> front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I
could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to
> hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
> side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the
other side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new
> briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal
> trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
> taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds,
and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy
> was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10
> minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose
> clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the
> case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to
> ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A
> , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part
> to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than
> you can shake a stick at . . . "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information
_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr


_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

Oh come on.

The point is that an accident doesn't start the moment you have
it...there are things that lead up to it.

There is no such thing as an accident using your defination below.

On 6/29/06, Doug Scott wrote:
> I think sometimes the correct preventitive measure is to have walked that
> day. To stand here 34 years later and have the nerve to say "you could have
> done something to avoid it" just proves my previous point. Some people just
> live to judge.
> BTW, if you all want to be completely correct, calling it an accident means
> it was unavoidable and no ones fault, it is otherwise known as a collision.
>
>
> doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Chris Burgess
> Sent: June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
> To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
> Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Laying a bike down
>
> In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull out
> from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down, changed
> your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire situation.
>
> There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.
>
> -Chris
>
> On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> > If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike
> > down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
> ability.
> >
> > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> > 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in
> > Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in
> > front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I
> could have stopped.
> > Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to
> > hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> > instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
> > side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the
> other side.
> >
> >
> > In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> > protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new
> > briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal
> > trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
> >
> > After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
> > taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds,
> and I
> > had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> > cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy
> > was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10
> > minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose
> > clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the
> > case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to
> > ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
> >
> > The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Chris Burdett
> > With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A
> > , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part
> > to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than
> > you can shake a stick at . . . "
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> > If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike
> > down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
> ability.
> >
> > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> > 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in
> > Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in
> > front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I
> could have stopped.
> > Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to
> > hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> > instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
> > side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the
> other side.
> >
> >
> > In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> > protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new
> > briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal
> > trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
> >
> > After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
> > taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds,
> and I
> > had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> > cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy
> > was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10
> > minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose
> > clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the
> > case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to
> > ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
> >
> > The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Chris Burdett
> > With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A
> > , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part
> > to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than
> > you can shake a stick at . . . "
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vfr mailing list
> > Vfr@xxxxxx
> > For subscription and delivery options:
> > https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
> Contact me for more information
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information
_______________________________________________
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Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

So now you see my point, there is no such thing as an accident, never has
been. It has always been a collision. And a collision is the result. If
you can nitpick something to death, why can't I? Do you now see how
annoying and pointless it is?

doug

-----Original Message-----
From: thatman311@xxxxxx [mailto:thatman311@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
Burgess
Sent: June 29, 2006 3:29 PM
To: doug@xxxxxx
Cc: VFRESQ@xxxxxx; vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down

Oh come on.

The point is that an accident doesn't start the moment you have it...there
are things that lead up to it.

There is no such thing as an accident using your defination below.

On 6/29/06, Doug Scott wrote:
> I think sometimes the correct preventitive measure is to have walked
> that day. To stand here 34 years later and have the nerve to say "you
> could have done something to avoid it" just proves my previous point.
> Some people just live to judge.
> BTW, if you all want to be completely correct, calling it an accident
> means it was unavoidable and no ones fault, it is otherwise known as a
collision.
>
>
> doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Chris Burgess
> Sent: June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
> To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
> Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Laying a bike down
>
> In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
> out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
> changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.
>
> There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.
>
> -Chris
>
> On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> > If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your
> > bike down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster
> > than your
> ability.
> >
> > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> > 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived
> > in Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50
> > feet in front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or
> > so, maybe I
> could have stopped.
> > Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was
> > to hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea.
> > So I instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on
> > its left side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the
> > way out the
> other side.
> >
> >
> > In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> > protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand
> > new briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a
> > criminal trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
> >
> > After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw
> > had taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally
> > in shreds,
> and I
> > had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> > cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it
> > (boy was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only
> > about 10 minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy,
> > and whose clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me,
> > postponed the case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me
> > never again to ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
> >
> > The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . .
..
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Chris Burdett
> > With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing
> > 1800A , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in
> > large part to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more
> > shit on it than you can shake a stick at . . . "
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> > If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your
> > bike down you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster
> > than your
> ability.
> >
> > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or
> > 1972 I was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived
> > in Brooklyn when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50
> > feet in front of me. I suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or
> > so, maybe I
> could have stopped.
> > Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was
> > to hit the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea.
> > So I instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on
> > its left side and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the
> > way out the
> other side.
> >
> >
> > In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of
> > protective gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand
> > new briefcase on the luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a
> > criminal trial in the Federal Court in Manhatten.
> >
> > After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw
> > had taken several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally
> > in shreds,
> and I
> > had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> > cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it
> > (boy was that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only
> > about 10 minutes late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy,
> > and whose clerk I was dating at the time) took one look at me,
> > postponed the case, ordered me to go to my doctor, and ordered me
> > never again to ride my motorcycle when I was coming to his court.
> >
> > The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . .
..
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Chris Burdett
> > With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing
> > 1800A , and most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in
> > large part to Denny), but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more
> > shit on it than you can shake a stick at . . . "
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vfr mailing list
> > Vfr@xxxxxx
> > For subscription and delivery options:
> > https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
> Contact me for more information
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information


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Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

You guys should spend more time cutting the useless junk out of your response and less time analyzing semantics. It is really annoying wading through the same lines of text three times in the same e-mail. This thread is getting as bad the …………. Tire, chain lube, lemon pledge.
_______________________________________________
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Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

Sometimes accidents like this can't be avoided. What lane position changes
and reducing speed do to the situation is give you more time to make a good
decision when you do get suprised.

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: thatman311@xxxxxx [mailto:thatman311@xxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Chris Burgess
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: jdfair@xxxxxx; nagyp@xxxxxx; vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down


In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.

There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.

-Chris

On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information


_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

And I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved with this one...but Merriam-Webster sees it this way...

accident
accidentaccident insuranceaccident-pronecerebrovascular accident

Main Entry: ac·ci·dent
Pronunciation: 'ak-s&-d&nt, -"dent; 'aks-d&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall -- more at CHANCE
1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE
2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought
3 : a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance


So it is "carelessness" in which you are at fault and preventable...or it could be "unforeseen" in which it's not your fault (unless you can predict events not yet taken place, but that's for another days topic). I think it's fair to call that a draw.

As far as "laying down", I refer to such an act as "bailing for self preservation". I'm not very interested in being destroyed along with my precious moto while I attempt to adlib some sort of physics defying maneuver. And as much as I would like to think that I've done everything right, my fight or flight instinct will have overriden any wild ideas I may have had while responding via e-mail on the VFR post. I'll drop it and slide every time if it means I can live to ride another day. I'm not a wealthy man, but I'll "lay down" another $11k before I "lay down" my life.

Quote: "And that's all I have to say about that."
The fictitious character- Forrest Gump

Axel

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Fair
To: Chris Burgess ; VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:16:49 -0400
Subject: RE: Laying a bike down


Sometimes accidents like this can't be avoided. What lane position changes
and reducing speed do to the situation is give you more time to make a good
decision when you do get suprised.

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: thatman311@xxxxxx [mailto:thatman311@xxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Chris Burgess
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: jdfair@xxxxxx; nagyp@xxxxxx; vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down


In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.

There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.

-Chris

On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . . .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
Donate to a great cause, the Seattle 100 for NephCure Foundation.
Contact me for more information


_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
Vfr@xxxxxx
For subscription and delivery options:
https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.. All on demand. Always Free.

_______________________________________________
Vfr mailing list
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For subscription and delivery options:
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I'm out of this one now guys! I thought we were having a fairly civilized and calm discussion but now it looks like it may turn into one of those anal retentive ego matches. That's the problem with trying to have a discussion on an email list. Things get taken out of context and inflection in voices can not be heard. You guys go and play nice now. Don't get too caught up in the semantics.

Denny
-----Original Message-----
From: bktobk3233@xxxxxx [mailto:bktobk3233@xxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 6:20 PM
To: jdfair@xxxxxx; chris@xxxxxx; VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down


And I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved with this one...but Merriam-Webster sees it this way...

accident
accidentaccident insuranceaccident-pronecerebrovascular accident

Main Entry: ac·ci·dent
Pronunciation: 'ak-s&-d&nt, -"dent; 'aks-d&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin accident-, accidens nonessential quality, chance, from present participle of accidere to happen, from ad- + cadere to fall -- more at CHANCE
1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE
2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought
3 : a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance


So it is "carelessness" in which you are at fault and preventable...or it could be "unforeseen" in which it's not your fault (unless you can predict events not yet taken place, but that's for another days topic). I think it's fair to call that a draw.

As far as "laying down", I refer to such an act as "bailing for self preservation". I'm not very interested in being destroyed along with my precious moto while I attempt to adlib some sort of physics defying maneuver. And as much as I would like to think that I've done everything right, my fight or flight instinct will have overriden any wild ideas I may have had while responding via e-mail on the VFR post. I'll drop it and slide every time if it means I can live to ride another day. I'm not a wealthy man, but I'll "lay down" another $11k before I "lay down" my life.

Quote: "And that's all I have to say about that."
The fictitious character- Forrest Gump

Axel

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Fair
To: Chris Burgess ; VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: vfr@xxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:16:49 -0400
Subject: RE: Laying a bike down


Sometimes accidents like this can't be avoided. What lane position changes
and reducing speed do to the situation is give you more time to make a good
decision when you do get suprised.

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: thatman311@xxxxxx [mailto:thatman311@xxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Chris Burgess
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:12 PM
To: VFRESQ@xxxxxx
Cc: jdfair@xxxxxx; nagyp@xxxxxx; vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Laying a bike down


In that situation you could have anticipated that someone could pull
out from the sidestreet or driveway. Then you would have slowed down,
changed your lane position or lane could have avoided the entire
situation.

There is always something you could have done to avoid the accident.

-Chris

On 6/29/06, VFRESQ@xxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . .. .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/2006 7:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jdfair@xxxxxx writes:
> If you can't avoid a crash by maneuvering and "have" to lay your bike down
> you were riding either too fast for conditions or faster than your
ability.
>
> I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Denny. In 1971 or 1972 I
> was riding my pristine Honda 350 down a street where I lived in Brooklyn
> when a 14 wheeler pulled out of a warehouse about 50 feet in front of me.
I
> suppose that if I had been going 10 mph or so, maybe I could have stopped.
> Anyway, I immediately realized that I only had two choices. One was to hit
> the trailer broadside, which seemed like a really bad idea. So I
> instinctively took the other choice - I laid the bike down on its left
side
> and literally slid under the trailer, coming all the way out the other
side.
>
>
> In those days we wore helmets but not much else in the way of protective
> gear. In fact, I was wearing my best suit, had a brand new briefcase on
the
> luggage rack, and was on my way to begin a criminal trial in the Federal
> Court in Manhatten.
>
> After this little incident, the brief case looked like a buzz saw had
taken
> several inches off it's left side, my suit was literally in shreds, and I
> had more road rash then I'd ever seen before. But I went back home,
> cleaned up the road rash and put an entire bottle of iodine on it (boy was
> that fun), put on another suit, and made it to court only about 10 minutes
> late. The judge (who was a friend and a great guy, and whose clerk I was
> dating at the time) took one look at me, postponed the case, ordered me to
> go to my doctor, and ordered me never again to ride my motorcycle when I
was
> coming to his court.
>
> The point of the story - sometimes you really don't have any choice . .. .
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Chris Burdett
> With an Amazing Wife . . . and a Bimota SB6 . .. and a Goldwing 1800A ,
and
> most recently a beautiful 1974 BMW R90/6 (thanks in large part to Denny),
> but (sadly) no longer "a '98 VFR with more shit on it than you can shake a
> stick at . . . "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vfr mailing list
> Vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
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--- Dan Barufaldi wrote:

> Pity. I change my oil far more often than I change
> my position on accidents.

Really? Which brand do you recommend? JUST KIDDING!!!!

:-)

Glad it's Friday,
Warren

Passion is the difference between living and existing
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