Re: Honda to VFR Owners: Drop Dead / Dust My Broom......

In a message dated 9/7/2006 5:04:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
johnmalexander@xxxxxx writes:

In the past 4 years was the norm for changes.



That's what I thought...........

Are the VTEC VFR's so low volume, Honda hasn't broken even on the model
change yet?

Are we being relegated to the dust bin?



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On Thursday 07 September 2006 16:20, Mrydr@xxxxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2006 5:04:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> johnmalexander@xxxxxx writes:
>
> In the past 4 years was the norm for changes.
>
>
>
> That's what I thought...........
>
> Are the VTEC VFR's so low volume, Honda hasn't broken even on the model
> change yet?
>
> Are we being relegated to the dust bin?

It might be the new modern day corporate mentality showing through.

You no longer matter.

You are just the customer.

You are not the important part of the equation.

Ford preferred to make the big expensive SUV type stuff because the profit per
unit was more than the little cars.

They didn't seem to care that many people no longer bought the big expensive
SUV type vehicles.

It is a lot like being drunk and losing your keys on the way back to your car.

You shuffle around a little bit and don't find them. So you walk half a block
farther down the street to look for your keys because the light is better
there.

It doesn't seem to matter that the place where you lost your keys is half a
block the other way.

Ford seems to have caught on and turned over the reins to someone before the
company went down the drain.

I doubt that Honda would even notice VFR sales one way or the other. They
certainly won't go down the drain over it.

But they sure don't seem to care much about what we say. Maybe this is a sign
of things to come.

Yamaha seems to make an effort to pay attention to their FJR owners. Not long
ago, there wasn't an FJR. In a matter of just a couple of years, they are a
serious presence.

Not long ago, the marketing folks at Yamaha made a "mistake" about the red
line on one of their bikes. There was a lot of hollering and then I heard
and read that Yamaha offered to buy back any of those bikes that didn't
satisfy the owner.

Compare that to the stories about people getting poorly treated when they
reported a cracked frame on their Goldwing.

Jerry
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I can chime in and say that Honda is not much better regarding their
automobiles. There have been numerous issues from grinding transmissions in
new cars, to paint fading only after a couple of years. They drop cool car
lines (like the Prelude) and yet they let the Gen3 Integra run for 8
years...8 years with no mods aside from different front and rear
bumpers....wtf? Honda's attitude is generally condescending and they try to
put the blame on the owner every single time. Even when they are wrong, they
rarely admit it, and even more rarely will they do anything about it. The
sad part is, that at least with cars, there doesn't seem to be anyone doing
better....so like, Honda may suck, but it's still about as good as it
gets....I think this is more a sign of the times than anything particular
going on at Honda.
PS- I've already sworn I would NEVER buy another Honda/Acura car as long as
I live....I hope I don't have to start saying that about their motorcycles
too.

Hey Honda....listen to your customers....PLEASE !

Mike

Durham, NC
1995 Honda VFR
1994 Acura Integra GS-R

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx]On Behalf
Of jerry
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:23 PM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Re: Honda to VFR Owners: Drop Dead / Dust My Broom......


On Thursday 07 September 2006 16:20, Mrydr@xxxxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 9/7/2006 5:04:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> johnmalexander@xxxxxx writes:
>
> In the past 4 years was the norm for changes.
>
>
>
> That's what I thought...........
>
> Are the VTEC VFR's so low volume, Honda hasn't broken even on the model
> change yet?
>
> Are we being relegated to the dust bin?

It might be the new modern day corporate mentality showing through.

You no longer matter.

You are just the customer.

You are not the important part of the equation.

Ford preferred to make the big expensive SUV type stuff because the profit
per
unit was more than the little cars.

They didn't seem to care that many people no longer bought the big expensive
SUV type vehicles.

It is a lot like being drunk and losing your keys on the way back to your
car.

You shuffle around a little bit and don't find them. So you walk half a
block
farther down the street to look for your keys because the light is better
there.

It doesn't seem to matter that the place where you lost your keys is half a
block the other way.

Ford seems to have caught on and turned over the reins to someone before the
company went down the drain.

I doubt that Honda would even notice VFR sales one way or the other. They
certainly won't go down the drain over it.

But they sure don't seem to care much about what we say. Maybe this is a
sign
of things to come.

Yamaha seems to make an effort to pay attention to their FJR owners. Not
long
ago, there wasn't an FJR. In a matter of just a couple of years, they are a
serious presence.

Not long ago, the marketing folks at Yamaha made a "mistake" about the red
line on one of their bikes. There was a lot of hollering and then I heard
and read that Yamaha offered to buy back any of those bikes that didn't
satisfy the owner.

Compare that to the stories about people getting poorly treated when they
reported a cracked frame on their Goldwing.

Jerry
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Four data points:

Had several problems with a 1500SE Wing that Honda would not resolve, even
after repeated letters and contacts with the regional service rep.

Had an auto tranny go out (under warranty) on an '01 Accord. Honda replaced
the entire tranny with no problem. Then they replaced it again when the
first replacement tranny failed. Got rid of the Accord before we had a
chance to see how they would handle it after the warranty expired. Too bad
the Honda motorcycle customer division has not taken notes from the Honda
auto customer service division. Also too bad that the once legendary Honda
reliability may no longer be the standard.

Currently I have switched to Toyota and have had no problems.

Just bought an 03 Yamaha R6 for a track bike. Even though it is way out of
warranty, Yamaha is currently paying for a couple of technical service
bulletin upgrades on it just to make sure that their bikes continue to
perform properly for their customers.

Had an FJR and I note that Yamaha has listened to FJR owners and upgraded
things on the FJR models every year with some of the key things they heard
from owner feedback.

Hmmmm, Toyota and Yamaha share some engineering resources from time to time.
Maybe they are the new standard?

John Harrison
Birmingham

----- Original Message -----
From: "blackrifle"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: Honda to VFR Owners: Drop Dead / Dust My Broom......


>I can chime in and say that Honda is not much better regarding their
> automobiles. There have been numerous issues from grinding transmissions
> in
> new cars, to paint fading only after a couple of years. They drop cool car
> lines (like the Prelude) and yet they let the Gen3 Integra run for 8
> years...8 years with no mods aside from different front and rear
> bumpers....wtf? Honda's attitude is generally condescending and they try
> to
> put the blame on the owner every single time. Even when they are wrong,
> they
> rarely admit it, and even more rarely will they do anything about it. The
> sad part is, that at least with cars, there doesn't seem to be anyone
> doing
> better....so like, Honda may suck, but it's still about as good as it
> gets....I think this is more a sign of the times than anything particular
> going on at Honda.
> PS- I've already sworn I would NEVER buy another Honda/Acura car as long
> as
> I live....I hope I don't have to start saying that about their motorcycles
> too.
>
> Hey Honda....listen to your customers....PLEASE !
>
> Mike

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On Thursday 07 September 2006 20:04, John Harrison wrote:
> >
> > Hey Honda....listen to your customers....PLEASE !

I can't help but wonder why we have to beg the manufacturer to act like a
reasonable person so that we will spend money with them.

I just went through this with pirelli.

I am finished with them after 40 years.

There are lots of other tire manufacturers out there.

Jerry
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--- blackrifle wrote:

> I can chime in and say that Honda is not much better
> regarding their
> automobiles. There have been numerous issues from
> grinding transmissions in
> new cars, to paint fading only after a couple of
> years. They drop cool car
> lines (like the Prelude) and yet they let the Gen3
> Integra run for 8
> years...8 years with no mods aside from different
> front and rear
> bumpers....wtf? Honda's attitude is generally
> condescending and they try to
> put the blame on the owner every single time. Even
> when they are wrong, they
> rarely admit it, and even more rarely will they do
> anything about it. The
> sad part is, that at least with cars, there doesn't
> seem to be anyone doing
> better....so like, Honda may suck, but it's still
> about as good as it
> gets....I think this is more a sign of the times
> than anything particular
> going on at Honda.
> PS- I've already sworn I would NEVER buy another
> Honda/Acura car as long as
> I live....I hope I don't have to start saying that
> about their motorcycles
> too.
>

I absolutely love my 96 VFR and my 91 Prelude si. I'd
buy another pre-2001 VFR anytime, and as for cars,
maybe some 88-98 models.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1996 VFR750F

1991 Prelude Si

2006 Flying Ford Anglia
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To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how many of you will really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.

Dave

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since selling my y2k VFR in 2003 (fall) i've purchased 3 motorcycles.
1 brand new(ZX-9) and 1 with 512 miles on it (RC51).
so to answer your question fairly; if Honda would have given me "more VFR" I would've bought another.
IMHO, the 5th gen forward suck in the styling and performance depts..
price up, performance down. not a good combo in my book.

Lou
SF, CA

-------------- Original message --------------
From: David Botsford

To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how many of you will really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.

Dave
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Have you been on this list at all? It has been hased out many many times

On 9/8/06, David Botsford wrote:
>
> To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I
> have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a new
> 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how many of you will really go
> out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.
>
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
>


--
Check out my racing site...http://www.chrisburgess.com/
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On Friday 08 September 2006 03:53 pm, Chris Burgess wrote:
> Have you been on this list at all? It has been hased out many many times

I am sure it has. And probably with the same general conclusions.

> On 9/8/06, David Botsford wrote:
> > To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I
> > have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a
> > new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how many of you will
> > really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.

Somehow he appears to believe that he has a direct pipeline to the inside of
the heads that make the decisions at Honda.

Some convincing demonstration of this would be interesting.

--
Jerry

Immediate self interest does not equal principles.
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At 05:33 PM 9/8/2006, you wrote:
>To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol
>VFR', I have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get
>you to buy a new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how
>many of you will really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda
>is thinking.
>
>Dave

Okay here's what they have to change to get me to put the VFR back on
my next bike list.

must haves
1. A V-FouR with more cc's (900 at least) and when they say it has
1000, make it have 1000cc +/- 5 not +/- 20+ cc's. And it doesn't need
the VTEC either, Heck I don't care if it has two valves or five, but
I don't want the VTEC Surge.
2. Give us (the riders) some real adjustability in the bars, pegs and
seat. Heat grips should be standard, bars that adjust for
angle/rotation/height and a little bit for reach. add some height
changes for the seat (say five postions each at least 3/8" up or
down. and separate the pillion pad from the riders adjustment. Ditto
for the peg's
3. Give us a fully adjustable suspension usd forks and a fully
adjustable rear shock with remote preload as a minimum. If honda
wants to chase one of the non-tele fronts that would be something of
interest as well. Oh and better tires than the oem dunlops (pos's)
that mine had. Oh yeah and the SSS rear stays.
4. ABS bikes with a less Link Braking system (read more of the front
calipers controlled by the front brake and not the rear pedal).


Would likes
1 a factory integrated mounting system for mounting GPS, radar
detectors, hands free cell phones and those kind of devices. it
wouldn't take much just a planned space at the top of the instrument
cluster to attach stuff.
2 a factory power outlet for other accessories.
3 three color choices (one of them always interceptor red).
4. better hard bags either using a standard bag mount for size
choices later or multiple sizes like Givi.


Wrap all that stuff up and price it around 10k and I would consider
buying one.
Until then BMW/Ducati/triumph all have my attention


JohnS
A Dragon Ascending
"Forging my body in the Fires of my Will"

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It's not just the VFR that lacks in the improvement department. Their problem is with their whole lineup except maybe the cruisers, but I have no interest in cruisers so don't pay attention to them. How about an adventure bike or two added to our market. How about a dual sport added that would appeal to those KLR folks. It seems changes are few and far between the last decade unless you consider a different color or new graphics a vast improvement. (sheesh) The European market has a few nice offerings from Honda that we don't get. I am pretty tired of Honda treating the U.S. market like the fucking red headed step child.

Regards, Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: David Botsford
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Honda to VFR Owners: Drop Dead / Dust My Broom......


To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how many of you will really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.
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Friday, September 8, 2006, 4:33:56 PM, you wrote:
> To all of you who want Honda to come out with a 'not the same ol VFR', I have a few questions. What do they need to do/change to get you to buy a new 'not the same ol VFR'? And most importantly how
> many of you will really go out and buy a new one? Thats what Honda is thinking.

> Dave

Hi David
Bring back the gears, axe the vtec and give me 1000cc with no wait
gain and I am back in the fold.
Cheers,
Bob

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Is it possible that many here on this list have simply grown out of
the class that Honda has the VFR serving? The number one request that
I hear for new VFRs is greater displacement. A quick look at
JES_VFR's list below shows substantial overlap with the
characteristics of the ST1300. The bikes that people compare the VFR
to are ones that I'd normally compare to the ST: K12ST, FJR, etc.
As gets pointed out from time to time, Honda has one sports/touring
bike in the US: the ST. The VFR is listed as a sportsbike. Sure, it
doesn't even begin to compete with the CBRs, never mind the R1/R6,
but Honda's thinking, AFAICT, is that if you want a sports-tourer,
you shouldn't be looking for a VFR.

The base ST comes in at 650# dry (versus the VFR's 470#), according
to Honda. I'm assuming that the ST figure includes the bags, while
the VFR's doesn't. With bags, the dry weight of the VFR is probably
around 490# maybe? Never mind the different engine and drivetrain for
now, would you guys be happy with an ST1300 that came with adjustable
pegs, bars, and suspension, as well as a weight-reduction program
that got it to 550# dry? I have no idea whether such reductions are
realistic, given the relative weights of other bikes in the ST class
mentioned (K12ST: 622lb with a full tank...so what580ish dry?, FJR
582 dry), but this is speculation so what the hell...

fwiw, I love my VFR750, and I've listed my changes here before: make
it into an RC45.


On Friday 8Sep, 2006, at 8:23 PM, JES_VFR wrote:
>
> Okay here's what they have to change to get me to put the VFR back on
> my next bike list.
>
> must haves
> 1. A V-FouR with more cc's (900 at least) and when they say it has
> 1000, make it have 1000cc +/- 5 not +/- 20+ cc's. And it doesn't need
> the VTEC either, Heck I don't care if it has two valves or five, but
> I don't want the VTEC Surge.
> 2. Give us (the riders) some real adjustability in the bars, pegs and
> seat. Heat grips should be standard, bars that adjust for
> angle/rotation/height and a little bit for reach. add some height
> changes for the seat (say five postions each at least 3/8" up or
> down. and separate the pillion pad from the riders adjustment. Ditto
> for the peg's
> 3. Give us a fully adjustable suspension usd forks and a fully
> adjustable rear shock with remote preload as a minimum. If honda
> wants to chase one of the non-tele fronts that would be something of
> interest as well. Oh and better tires than the oem dunlops (pos's)
> that mine had. Oh yeah and the SSS rear stays.
> 4. ABS bikes with a less Link Braking system (read more of the front
> calipers controlled by the front brake and not the rear pedal).
>
>
> Would likes
> 1 a factory integrated mounting system for mounting GPS, radar
> detectors, hands free cell phones and those kind of devices. it
> wouldn't take much just a planned space at the top of the instrument
> cluster to attach stuff.
> 2 a factory power outlet for other accessories.
> 3 three color choices (one of them always interceptor red).
> 4. better hard bags either using a standard bag mount for size
> choices later or multiple sizes like Givi.
>
>
> Wrap all that stuff up and price it around 10k and I would consider
> buying one.
> Until then BMW/Ducati/triumph all have my attention
>
>
> JohnS
> A Dragon Ascending
> "Forging my body in the Fires of my Will"
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

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--- John Johnson wrote:

> Is it possible that many here on this list have
> simply grown out of
> the class that Honda has the VFR serving? The number
> one request that
> I hear for new VFRs is greater displacement. A quick
> look at
> JES_VFR's list below shows substantial overlap with
> the
> characteristics of the ST1300. The bikes that people
> compare the VFR
> to are ones that I'd normally compare to the ST:
> K12ST, FJR, etc.
> As gets pointed out from time to time, Honda has one
> sports/touring
> bike in the US: the ST. The VFR is listed as a
> sportsbike. Sure, it
> doesn't even begin to compete with the CBRs, never
> mind the R1/R6,
> but Honda's thinking, AFAICT, is that if you want a
> sports-tourer,
> you shouldn't be looking for a VFR.
>
> The base ST comes in at 650# dry (versus the VFR's
> 470#), according
> to Honda. I'm assuming that the ST figure includes
> the bags, while
> the VFR's doesn't. With bags, the dry weight of the
> VFR is probably
> around 490# maybe? Never mind the different engine
> and drivetrain for
> now, would you guys be happy with an ST1300 that
> came with adjustable
> pegs, bars, and suspension, as well as a
> weight-reduction program
> that got it to 550# dry? I have no idea whether such
> reductions are
> realistic, given the relative weights of other bikes
> in the ST class
> mentioned (K12ST: 622lb with a full tank...so
> what580ish dry?, FJR
> 582 dry), but this is speculation so what the
> hell...
>
> fwiw, I love my VFR750, and I've listed my changes
> here before: make
> it into an RC45.
>
>
> On Friday 8Sep, 2006, at 8:23 PM, JES_VFR wrote:
> >
> > Okay here's what they have to change to get me to
> put the VFR back on
> > my next bike list.
> >
> > must haves
> > 1. A V-FouR with more cc's (900 at least) and when
> they say it has
> > 1000, make it have 1000cc +/- 5 not +/- 20+ cc's.
> And it doesn't need
> > the VTEC either, Heck I don't care if it has two
> valves or five, but
> > I don't want the VTEC Surge.
> > 2. Give us (the riders) some real adjustability in
> the bars, pegs and
> > seat. Heat grips should be standard, bars that
> adjust for
> > angle/rotation/height and a little bit for reach.
> add some height
> > changes for the seat (say five postions each at
> least 3/8" up or
> > down. and separate the pillion pad from the riders
> adjustment. Ditto
> > for the peg's
> > 3. Give us a fully adjustable suspension usd forks
> and a fully
> > adjustable rear shock with remote preload as a
> minimum. If honda
> > wants to chase one of the non-tele fronts that
> would be something of
> > interest as well. Oh and better tires than the oem
> dunlops (pos's)
> > that mine had. Oh yeah and the SSS rear stays.
> > 4. ABS bikes with a less Link Braking system (read
> more of the front
> > calipers controlled by the front brake and not the
> rear pedal).
> >
> >
> > Would likes
> > 1 a factory integrated mounting system for
> mounting GPS, radar
> > detectors, hands free cell phones and those kind
> of devices. it
> > wouldn't take much just a planned space at the top
> of the instrument
> > cluster to attach stuff.
> > 2 a factory power outlet for other accessories.
> > 3 three color choices (one of them always
> interceptor red).
> > 4. better hard bags either using a standard bag
> mount for size
> > choices later or multiple sizes like Givi.
> >
> >
> > Wrap all that stuff up and price it around 10k and
> I would consider
> > buying one.
> > Until then BMW/Ducati/triumph all have my
> attention
> >
> >
> > JohnS
> > A Dragon Ascending
> > "Forging my body in the Fires of my Will"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > vfr mailing list
> > vfr@xxxxxx
> > For subscription and delivery options:
> > https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>
> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@xxxxxx
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------

1996 VFR750F

1991 Prelude Si

2006 Flying Ford Anglia
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