RE: Weighing in on heavy loads and bigger motors-POWER DEBATE

I have a 98 that is basically bone stock in the respiration dept. It came
with a tbr high right and a Power commander. Both of which have been
removed. Personally, I find the bike just about perfect in it's stock trim.
I might put the pc back on when I have time to play with it BUT I really
DON'T need it.

For those of you that don't know I've been on this list since early '96
though nowadays I tend to filter quite a bit. 22 years of riding with well
over a million miles, 15 years worth of racing (the last ten as an expert
usually running in the top 3 in my class) and simultaneous corner working.
You'll find plenty of tech and riding stuff in the archives. Most of it is
related to older models.

Now on to the power issue. Yeah.. well would it be nice to have a bit more?
Sure I said that about my 93 but 2 up with 3 givi's and a pillion it still
did it's job (granted it had been computracked/gold-valved and penske'd)
quite well but the carbs/pipe and motor were stock. The 98' even in stock
trim has substantially more power than the 93 and, again, I'm quite happy
with it.

I spent 2.5 weeks this summer running up and down the Cal coast, and nearby
mountains, between Monterrey and and Jenner and didn't see any issues with
power or torque or handling. The "train" consisted of myself and my wife on
the 98 with three loaded givi's, a good friend (another expert racer in
front) and BCGUY (now racing himself-and doing quite well) on my 93' in the
back. We ran along at a VERY good pace all day long with nary a problem on
either the suspension or power side.

Yeah it's nice to have torque and HP but the reality is that 99% of riders
in this country are incapable of using their machinery to within 50% of it's
capabilities. We're back to the old buying horsepower to make one faster
argument. That doesn't fly. As a Penguin Racing School instructor I run
down kids on GSXR1000's all day long at Loudon and I'm on a 48 HP 94 EX500.


Essentially, get educated and learn to use the vehicle that you have before
you go throwing money at something that really isn't going to make you any
faster or any better a rider in the places where you need to be better.
Handling it's all in the handling. At that means how you handle it and how
it's setup. Oh and don't be afraid of the top side of the tach. That's
where the power is and running the bike right to the torque or HP peak when
needed really isn't an issue. Trust me any of the VFR's from 90 onward will
pass/climb and corner (FULLY LOADED) just fine if you just learn how to use
it and improve your timing. Oh and good suspension bits (penske and
goldvalves) really do help.

Kevin Glick--kglick@xxxxxx(The Isle O'Manhattan--NYC)
LRRS/CCS EXPERT# 56///US Marshals Risk And Track Safety Management
Crew 94' EX500(Race)//98' VFR800Fi (Sequoia)// "Keep Thine Eye On
The Tach And Thine Ear On The Engine Lest Thy Whirlybits
Seek Communion With The Sun" John 4:50






_____

From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Nagy, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:58 AM
To: vfr@xxxxxx
Subject: Weighing in on heavy loads and bigger motors



I've never though of my VFR as a bike for 2 people touring. Sorry, but I
refuse to blame the bike for not performing especially well under max weight
conditions.



I have on various occasions felt a lack of HP on the bike, which is why I
modified it a lot for greater performance-pipe, PCII, removal of PAIR
system. I've not changed the gearing because I generally feel like it is
sufficient, especially for moderately high speed (90 mph) cruising, which is
my favorite way to ride the bike on the open highway. But if there is a
stiff headwind, the motor works too hard now, and the vibration becomes
unpleasant, and eventually debilitating. Still, I can live without being
able to ride 100 mph into a headwind for long distances.but I'd rather not.
Hence, my looking at the R1200.



Overall, at this point, I believe my suspension does not handle very well
both me and a very large load-be that heavy packing or a passenger. My last
long trip was a minor disaster, and the suspension contributed. If I
thought I could really someday get my money's worth out of replacing or
rebuilding the suspension, I would do it; but as it stands, there's no way.








Paul G. Nagy III

'99VFR800 fi

Clovis, NM 88101




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> Essentially, get educated and learn to use the vehicle that
> you have before
> you go throwing money at something that really isn't going to
> make you any
> faster or any better a rider in the places where you need to
> be better.
> Handling it's all in the handling. At that means how you
> handle it and how
> it's setup. Oh and don't be afraid of the top side of the
> tach. That's
> where the power is and running the bike right to the torque
> or HP peak when
> needed really isn't an issue.

Well, I too have an expert roadracing license and a nice collection
of trophies and I'd like more power in my VFR.

It has nothing, at all, to do with "making me faster" or any crap
like that and has everything to do with liking to have effortless
roll-on power available at low rpms. With the VFR you're forced
to drop a gear if you want strong acceleration, while on a bike
with more power you just twist the loud handle and the power
is there. Rowing the gearbox and keeping the engine on the boil
is fine on the track but gets really old on the street.

My last bike before the VFR was a ZX11D and it was excellent in
that regard (but made up for it with horrible suspension and not
nearly enough brakes for its 600+lb bulk and velocity potential).
If some nimrod on the highway decides he wants my lane, regardless
of my current presence in that spot, not having to drop a cog
so I can squirt out of his way is definitely nice.

All of the above is made worse when all three of my Givi bags are
packed for for a trip. Loaded like that the bike is downright
lethargic unless you keep it spun up all the time. That isn't
how I want to spend a few hours in the saddle.

The appeal of a bike like the FJR1300 isn't the 150HP on top, it is
the 80+lb-ft of torque available from barely above idle speed.



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: vfr-bounces@xxxxxx
> [mailto:vfr-bounces@xxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Kasimirsky
> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 10:14 AM
> To: vfr@xxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Weighing in on heavy loads and bigger motors-POWER DEBATE
>
> > Essentially, get educated and learn to use the vehicle that
> > you have before
> > you go throwing money at something that really isn't going to
> > make you any
> > faster or any better a rider in the places where you need to
> > be better.
> > Handling it's all in the handling. At that means how you
> > handle it and how
> > it's setup. Oh and don't be afraid of the top side of the
> > tach. That's
> > where the power is and running the bike right to the torque
> > or HP peak when
> > needed really isn't an issue.
>
> Well, I too have an expert roadracing license and a nice collection
> of trophies and I'd like more power in my VFR.
>
> It has nothing, at all, to do with "making me faster" or any crap
> like that and has everything to do with liking to have effortless
> roll-on power available at low rpms. With the VFR you're forced
> to drop a gear if you want strong acceleration, while on a bike
> with more power you just twist the loud handle and the power
> is there. Rowing the gearbox and keeping the engine on the boil
> is fine on the track but gets really old on the street.

Honestly, I don't find the need to row the gearbox that much. And in
comparison to my older collection of inline 4 600's one might say not at
all. Granted I'm rarely in 6th gear when I percieve traffic patterns that I
expect I'm going to need to MOVE through but again I'm still not rowing the
gearbox. Contrary to popular belief the nice thing about fuel injection is
that turning the loud knob, in any gear, gets you as much gas as the ECU can
shove at the injectors (given gear, road speed etc..) without lugging the
thing and making it soggy.

>
> My last bike before the VFR was a ZX11D and it was excellent in
> that regard (but made up for it with horrible suspension and not
> nearly enough brakes for its 600+lb bulk and velocity potential).
> If some nimrod on the highway decides he wants my lane, regardless
> of my current presence in that spot, not having to drop a cog
> so I can squirt out of his way is definitely nice.

It's nice but not necessary. Especially if you've been paying attention to
lane position, the traffic pattern and engaging full scale prediction. But
ultimately yeah... Give me 100ft-lbs and 80hp and I'd be really happy... But
again it's not necessary.

>
> All of the above is made worse when all three of my Givi bags are
> packed for for a trip. Loaded like that the bike is downright
> lethargic unless you keep it spun up all the time. That isn't
> how I want to spend a few hours in the saddle.
>
> The appeal of a bike like the FJR1300 isn't the 150HP on top, it is
> the 80+lb-ft of torque available from barely above idle speed.

Yup. See above. But also consider the extra, what?, 150lbs the FJR is
going to be carrying when you try to figure out what that 80ft-lb is going
to get you in terms of real roll-on perf.

Alternatively you can always play with the gearing (down front/up rear) :-)
It's not like we need the top end. Anything over 120 is really useless
unless you've playing on the autobahn.

Later,

kev

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On 9/17/06, Kevin Glick wrote:
>
>
> >
> > The appeal of a bike like the FJR1300 isn't the 150HP on top, it is
> > the 80+lb-ft of torque available from barely above idle speed.
>
> Yup. See above. But also consider the extra, what?, 150lbs the FJR is
> going to be carrying when you try to figure out what that 80ft-lb is going
> to get you in terms of real roll-on perf.
>
> Alternatively you can always play with the gearing (down front/up rear)
> :-)
> It's not like we need the top end. Anything over 120 is really useless
> unless you've playing on the autobahn.


Have a friend who went from a 97 VFR to an FJR1300 and never looked back.
I still cannot keep up with him whether riding a Mille or a Z750. He is fast
in
the tight twisties, fast in the sweepers and oh so fast on the 'bahn.
The FJR is one fine machine and can hold its own with sports bikes.

JohnA in LA

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